Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

[Birdbats]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

Rudy,

Regarding repairing bats and reapplying pine tar, I've only had to do it a couple times. Pine tar can come off during the repair process no matter how careful you are -- it can stick to clamp pads or be scraped off while trying to remove excess dried glue. If you're not careful, a bat can end up looking like Steve Carell's chest (post waxing) in the 40-Year-Old Virgin.

Also, if the crack is severe enough, it can require some serious craftsmanship to make a bat whole again. It might even require sanding. I know Fred Lowman, who is the most highly praised bat repair guy around, will replace missing wood with new wood (not filler) -- and that could really stand out if it's in the middle of a dark, tarred area. I e-mailed Fred once about repairing a heavily tarred bat; he replied that he'd remove all the tar, repair the bat and then replace the tar. I personally think that's kind of extreme (and didn't use his services as a result) -- I guess we all have different comfort levels. What's important is that he disclosed his process to me and gave me information to make my decision.

Removing and/or reapplying pine tar is not something you want to do routinely, but sometimes it is necessary -- especially if the customer requesting the repair wants the bat to be restored as closely as possible to its unbroken condition. I'd never reapply pine tar unless it was ok with the owner.

The concept of "restoration" is the key. Bats aren't like baseball cards that are trimmed to be passed off as mint. To many, they're more like museum pieces that are more desirable if restored. If artists can retouch the Sistine Chapel, then why not replace the pine tar on a baseball bat's repaired, bare spot?

Now, if you're applying pine tar just to make a bat match a player's "desired" characteristics, that's a whole different matter. That's not restoration, that's deception. I believe that's the issue to which Howard is referring on this particular bat.

Jeff

http://www.birdbats.com

[bagbig]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

Great work Howard!!!!!!!!!!!! Obviously this guy has been selling fake items on ebay for quite some time. I am never going to bid on his fake auctions again. Thanks again for the good work Howard.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

Jeff,

Thanks for your reply and insight. My 2 bits (as we hijack this thread into a discussion on bat repair):

If I read your reply correctly, a bat crack repair doesn't physically necessitate any re-application of pine tar. That is, a re-application of pinetar is in fact not necessary for a repair to be made.
A re-application of pinetar is only necessary for the aesthetic effect; that is, to satisfy a customer who prefers the aesthetic look of a restored bat.
The pinetar doesn't help seal the crack, it simply helps hide the repair and/or make the bat look more 'original'. A personal choice obviously, best left up to the customer after full disclosure has been given. I understand.

re: the topic of restoration:
"To many, they're more like museum pieces that are more desirable if restored."

Some prefer their pieces restored, other's don't. Personally I don't because for me the attraction to these items isn't aesthetic, it's in their tangible history. There's nothing 'pretty' about a scuffed baseball. The appeal is in the fact that it was the 700th home run for example. To strip off the old hide, which actually flew off the hitter's bat and out of the stadium, and replace it with a new hide, ruins the historical artifact. For me, the same is true for anything else - nameplates, letters, pinetar. It's destroying the original, historical material and replacing it with material that has no significance whatsoever purely for aesthetic reasons.

"If artists can retouch the Sistine Chapel, then why not replace the pine tar on a baseball bat's repaired, bare spot?"

Jeff, there are 2 huge differences with memorabilia restoration and art restoration of the nature given in your example above:

1) High-end art restorers painstakingly ensure that all of their modifications fall precisely within the exact lines and specs of the original. This ensures that any restoration does not alter the original visual appearance in any way. If Michelangelo did a 1.31 mm line which curved 35.42 degrees to the right, then the restorer fills in a 1.31 mm line which curves 35.42 degrees to the right. Somewhat similar to "filling in the lines", only they do it so there is absolutely no visual difference whatsoever between the restorer's work and the original. When you re-apply pinetar, do you re-apply it in exactly the same way, pattern, amount, etc as the original application? That is, does your re-application differ in any way from the original? I would offer that most "pine tar re-appliers" don't apply nearly the same amount of painstaking detail and skill as professional art restorers. I'm not talking about applying a "light coat" or "heavy coat". I mean..if there's an s-shaped swirl that's 3.1" long formed in the original pinetar, do you faithfully re-create a 3.1", s-shaped swirl in the exact same position? I would offer that what pine-tar re-appliers do is a crude job that barely resembles the intricate details of the original.

2) Unlike sports memorabilia restorers, those who restore high-end art aren't doing it purely for aesthetic reasons. It's done when the original is literally falling apart or fading drastically. That is, when the original piece is in real danger of not existing if left unrestored. I would argue that there isn't even a genuine need for crack repair. I have 2 cracked bats. In 15 yrs, their condition has not changed in the least. The crack has not affected their rate of deterioration. Repairing these bats or re-applying their pinetar will not lengthen their life whatsoever. The Sistine Chapel is fading and deteriorating. If it's not periodically restored, it will fade to nothing and cease to exist. If I don't seal a crack or re-apply the pinetar, the bat will not suffer the same fate. The bat repair we're discussing is done purely for aesthetic reasons and I personally don't believe aesthetics take precedence over a genuine piece of tangible history. I'd prefer a cracked bat completely in it's original state to one repaired and with new pinetar. I completely understand though that it's simply a personal preference. Thanks again for your insight.

Rudy.

[Birdbats]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

Rudy,

All valid points. As you note, a lot of it is personal preference. Many people don't like to fix cracked bats, and some won't buy cracked bats in the first place. But, trust me when I say I've seen bats that, if not repaired, might snap into two pieces if handled in the slightest.

This particular bat already was in two pieces, which most people would not prefer. There aren't a lot of bat racks that can accommodate a two-piece bat. Repairing it makes it presentable. Whether you call that aesthetic or necessary, the fact is, the bat is more desirable to most people if restored. And if, in the repair of that bat some of the pine tar came off, many people would prefer to have those spots concealed. Some wouldn't. Only one bat in a hundred might actually need this kind of work -- it should be the exception rather than the rule.

As long as the work is done in the name of restoration and not deception, I don't have a problem with it. It's been suggested that this Pujols bat might have crossed the line, and that's the issue in play here.

Jeff

http://www.birdbats.com

[trsent]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

Wait a second, Rudy, you are now a bat expert?

Even I can't help with this topic, I have bought and sold about 10 game used bats in my life, I am not an expert. I always overheard discussions at trade shows about restoring bats, I didn't think it was an issue since the bats were always sold as restored.

[cjosefy]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

I also wonder about the Game Used Brandon Backe hat up for auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brandon-Backe-2005-Game-Used-Astros-World-Series-Hat_W0QQitemZ8765661007QQcategoryZ50117QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Check out these two purchases made two months ago:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=24655&item=8729562180

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=24655&item=8731129442

Obviously, there's no way of knowing if the size 7 hat bought on eBay turned into the game used hat, but that's why I hate game used hats. They're too easy to fake.

[stlbats]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

What about the fact that a possible buyer asked if the bat was ever in 2 separate pieces and Chris specifically said he did not know.

Come on, this is definately intentional misleading.

Jason

[pietraynor]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

Way too many red flags here. It's a shame, maybe $180,000 a year isn't enough for some people.

[suave1477]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

I got to admit guys i was feeling bad about the way you were bashing chris but after seeing the game used hat ad that was previsouly posted. WOW THAT IS SCARY AND WAY TO COINCIDENTAL, I will definitely NOT take any chances from buying from GAME-USED-BATS

[Yankwood]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

Lock him up, I say.

[nate]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

Personally i'm glad this came up and started an interesting debate about the restoration of cracked bats.

[fraudbuster]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

***post Removed***

[eGameUsed]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

All,

I feel this issue has been elevated farther than I imagined it could. It seems like hysteria to me personally. Apparently I am ruining the hobby for some. Let me state a few brief facts about my thinking on this:

1. The Albert Pujols bat is REAL, not fake. I received the bat and it was a great piece. It was not fake!

2. Whether it was used in Spring, regular season, batting cage, it was a nice Pujols bat. TRUE - I did not diclose that in my listing. This is part of the reason I ended the eBay auction.

3. I did repair the bat with additional pine tar added to the area of repair. TRUE - I did not disclose that in my listing. This is part of the reason I ended the auction.

4. When I received the bat, black electrical tape had been applied to one end of the crack. The bat did appear to be split through, but when the tape was removed, the bat was not in two pieces. I did not want to "break" the bat, so I left it intact and made the repairs to the appropriate areas. One small piece of wood was needed to finish the repair, with minor sanding. Pine tar was added to the sanded area to bring the visual appeal back to the bat. I answered the clearly posted this in the listing as it was a true statement.

5. I did add the black stars (2) to the knob. I did not state that in the eBay listing, rather, said Pujols added them. This was not true and I will admit deceptive in nature. I can't honestly tell you what was going through my mind, but again, all I can plead is a rushed listing and use of my standard format. TRUE - Because of my lack of responsibility in this error, I have not, and will not claim anything other than deception.

6. This Pujols bat was the 13th bat I have added this "marker" to. In my OPINION (opinions can be wrong in the eyes of others), this is a "good" method for tracking items. I do know one thing, if that bat ever shows up on the market again, everyone on this board will know. If readers think this is wrong of me to do, I am sorry. I am not convinced it is a bad thing to do and it has served me well in the past. TRUE - I did not disclose that I added this in the auction listing.

7. I did end the listing! I removed the bat from eBay. I felt this was the right thing to do. I received mutliple e-mails, some of which from forum members, asking to buy the bat. I sold the bat with full disclosure of my adding the stars, repair of the bat, including adding pine tar over the sanded area.

8. As for the Backe hats, I am offended that someone would accuse me or buying those hats on eBay and turning them into "game worn" hats. Brandon Backe signed this hat for me personally on the Astros Winter Caravan. The hats I purchased on eBay were gifts for relatives as they have become very hard to come by. I have been obtaining items from various Astros clubhouse sources for over 18 years. I am truely offended. Do any of you purchase items on eBay for personal use or other means than game used collecting?

What more do you want from me? I don't want people to think I am dishonest. I am 27 year old that has been collecting since I was 9 years old. Even though I am young, I have seen more than most of the people on this forum, have worked for 2 professional baseball organizations, and am now a professional in the energy business.

Howard has had it out for me since I called him on the Berkman jersey. He chose not to address the issue in a public forum. This time is about me! I was asked to be a man and come on here. I am here, willing to answer any questions, and I think I have done a good job. I ended the listing as would have been expected considering the questions that arose. I sold the item with full disclosure and if the bat ever shows up again, you will see it. In a world of thousands of Pujols XBats, Mizunos, and Pujols bats used by other players, this was a REAL Pujols.

I have never sold a "fake" item that I knew about. I have never fabricated an item either. I have never sold an item I have questions with. I have always offered refunds to buyers once they inspected the item.

I respectfully ask for people to not accuse me of selling fake items. No one has presented any evidence that I have done so now or in the past. If I choose to add graffiti to every item I obtain, then that is my choice with my property.

Thank you for hearing me out!

Chris
ccboyd@houston.rr.com
713-385-1155

[trsent]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

You all should be ashamed of some of the comments above. You may not like the explication Chris gave about the bat, but the hat comments are out of line and without any proof - Just speculation.

This is a problem of the forum, children can't discuss the issue, they like to attack the person involved. Right, wrong or so-so, people made comments that are unfair without a complete trial-discussion by all parties involved.

I personally am not a fan of Chris Boyd after comments he made about how I ruin the forum mentioning what strippers are in my bedroom or talking about sports betting without mentioning me by name, but I will stick up for him right now.

Not because what he did was right or wrong, but because immature people made comments are stuck names on Chris that didn't even give him a chance to respond. Also because he was accused of tampering with a game used ball cap with absolutely no evidence against him.

Stand up and be adults people, otherwise we will continue to lose members who may be useful to our forum, even if they have had activity that is semi-unethical. They are needed to come here to defend their activity and join in on other topics.

Please, think about my comments and remember them, even if the user is offended because I like to mention who is in my bedroom.

[Bigcatbaseball]

Re: Albert Pujols Bat-serious Issues And Problems

The problem caused by Chris altering the Albert Pujols bat and not disclosing those alterations creates doubts about the possiblity that he has or would alter other items that he sells. I have never purchased from Chris and do not know him and I have no reason to believe that he is anything but honest. But, he showed very poor judgment in attempting to sell an item with an undisclosed alteration. Adding any markings or additional pine tar is deceptive and should never be tolerated. However, each of us will have to make up our minds about buying from him or anyone who alters game used items. As an active game used bat collector, I would never buy a bat that had been altered but that is my preference. Some collectors may not care, but they should be informed about the alteration. Presenting an item in an open and honest way is only fair play.