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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
Gentlemen, I think we're beating a dead horse.
Gentlemen, I think we're beating a dead horse.
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
Chiming in a bit late, as recently, I'm not frequenting this forum nearly as often...
I don't see any use in throwing in my 2c, regarding rationale for for pricing or who does/does not and can/cannot afford to play in this particular sandbox. These topics have been pretty well covered Rather I thought I'd mention a trend recently noticed regarding a new and unique "buy-high-and sell-low" business model.
For some reason, a couple of folks bought what were assumed to be "bargains" via NFL Auction... Both 2007 Broncos game jerseys, a DJ Williams purchased last Nov for $705 and Dre Bly, selling in Dec for $475. Within a couple of short week, the Bly found its way to eBay with an asking price in excess of $800; the jersey was finally sold this week after accepting an offer of $450 (including NFLA shipping, a loss of $37). The Williams having been procured sooner, was listed considerably later, but sold in the same week, for $369--a loss (including shipping) of nearly $350!
While I certainly can't comment on the reasons for or thought processes behind these transaction, it should be reasonably clear that one cannot pay a premium price to acquire an item and then subsequently offer it for sale via a venue known for its bargain-basement offerings and expect to profit from the deal.
Best regards,Comment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
While the auction houses seem to deliver greater prices on an undeserved superior air of legitimacy, you just documented my point, that being that even with the NFL COA, these items are being purchased at a premium that will not be supported on resale in the secondary market.Comment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
i asked this earlier but failed to garner a response. a dealer can set any price they want, however realistic or unrealistic. an auction hammer price, on the other hand, is set by the market. NFL Auctions didn't sell that jersey for $X, it's collectors who bid it up to that amouint. that said, i'm genuinely curious why an item would sell for more on NFL Auctions than the same item would on Ebay (with full NFL certs). If an LT gamer sells for $10k on NFL Auctions, why would it fail to get substantially less than $10k if it were immediately flipped to ebay with full certs? both auctions are open to the same people so why are these people bidding more on the NFL website than on Ebay despite the provenance being identical?
rudy.Comment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
I purchased the DJ Williams jersey from EBay at a significantly lower price than NFL Auctions got for it. I was thinking of buying it when it was initially offered, but I thought paying over $700 was a little steep. At $369 on EBay, I thought it was a steal.
I don't think the high auction prices are limited to the NFL. I noticed a couple of years ago Suns retro jerseys on nba.com were bid way too high. The Steve Nash was over $3500 and MeiGray, at the time, had a Mavericks Nash for sale on their website for $1500. I would imagine the retro Suns was more desirable, but it certainly did not warrant a price differential of over $2,000.
In my opinion, the league websites, for the most part, draw a different type of consumer. Those of us who read and post on these boards are more knowledgeable about equipment than many of the people who might visit nfl.com or nba.com and run into an auction item that gets their attention. I think most of us have several different types of sellers that we trust and as a result, we are less inclined to spend more cash than we think is fair market value for a given item.
However, we are not the only group of consumers with the money to finance a collectible we desire. Maybe the guy that spent $3500+ on the retro Nash just brought junior to a game and junior saw the jersey while checking the NBA scores and told his dad that he really wanted that Nash jersey for Christmas. Maybe dad wasn't too aware of the different purchasing options that we're all aware of and bought it, knowing it would be real, since it came directly from the NBA.
I really think that a bargain is in the eye of the beholder. All this talk of whether someone overpaid for an item is really quite ridiculous, in my opinion. I know I have bought and sold items for a profit, as well as taking the occasional loss on something. The bottom line is I have never missed a mortgage payment as a result and have thoroughly enjoyed my experiences in this hobby. If I can find another item, like the Broncos DJ Williams jersey, that is resold by somebody at a loss, that's great. If I find something I REALLY want and have to overpay for it, that's great too. I'm just glad that I've been able to educate myself a little bit to be able to make better choices that might save me a buck, or two, in the long run.Comment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
Because they do.
Read reed's post above as a classic example.
There is something about NFL Auctions that seems to attract bigger money than secondary sources when these same items are resold even with the NFL cert. I won't venture to guess why, but it's something I've observed and it's easy to document as with reed's example. Discussing it is anything but "ridiculous" as reed opined. I apparently won't be buying there because I can't afford to throw away thousands of unrecoverable money, like reed I'll wait for these same items to surface elsewhere at a more market friendly price.
This seems to be happening to high visibility player items, not lesser player items for the most part. But it certainly seems to be happening.Comment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
can someone give me an example where a big named jersey or helmet was sold on the secondary market?
the only one that comes to my mind was a Tomlinson throwback, and that sold for 25% more than it did in the NFL auctionComment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
i agree - believing that the collecting of one of a kind items is a battle between the haves and have-nots of the world is somewhat naive and very much off the mark imo. the bottom line is that there are many collectors out there that do not purchase such items as an investment; many collectors that aren't remotely concerned with recouping their money at a later point in time or realizing a future gain - regardless of their financial position.
i think this phenomena was well illustrated at christie's recent star trek auction in new york - the history channel put together a wonderful documentary chronicling the event including interviews with bidders, many that flew halfway around the world to attend and participate. the number of average joe bidders interviewed that broke their bank just to get an authentic piece of star trek memorabilia was both startling and heart-warming. no flippers, no investors, no speculators, no jet setters, no tycoons - just die hard star trek fans that were willing to mortgage the house just to get an authentic piece of tangible memorabilia that represented something very important in their lives.
face it, the collecting one of a kind items ain't cheap and the competition for these items is fierce - but the competition isn't fierce because we're forced to bid against the bill gates' of the world, it's fierce because we're forced to bid against the bill gates' of the world and the hordes of collectors prepared to sacrifice more than us. but isn't this part of the beauty of the beast?robertComment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
no, i hadn't heard - but doing a web search it appears that this claim is specific to one dissatisfied bidder, a dissatisfied bidder that is also seeking millions in punitive damages. apparently he won, among a few other items, a visor worn in one of the episodes by the character "data" - his claim is that when he attempted to have it autographed the actor told him it was fake, that he knew this because he had owned the original and recently sold it. the bidder also claims in his complaint that he was "under the impression" that he was bidding on "one of a kind items" so he is no longer interested in a uniform he also won (for $11k).
but here's a take from one of the star trek stars about the case...
"There are no "one-of-a-kind" spacesuits for regular cast members, because the studio needed to have several doubles in case one of our costumes got dirty or damaged in some way (I once fell while running to the set, and tore the knee out of my hideous gray suit from Season 2, for example.) We never had just one of anything, unless it was expensive to make, or for a guest star who was appearing in just one show.
This guy also says that Brent told him that the visor he bought wasn't the one Brent wore, because Brent already sold that one years ago. Again, Brent could have been talking about a visor from Best of Both Worlds, and this guy got a visor from All Good Things, or something like that.
It doesn't make sense that CBS would defraud fans the way this guy alleges, and I think it's more likely that this guy has buyer's remorse."
anyway, it seems far from conclusive that any of the items were definitely fakes. but speaking of the star trek auction, check out the hefty prices some of the items brought in - especially compared to their "estimated" value.... gotta love collecting!
robertComment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
I totally agree with this. While the DJ Williams jersey might be a good example of getting an item below what NFL Auctions did, Williams isn't a really big name. I happen to think he's a damn good player (led the AFC in tackles last season), but he has yet to be named to an NFL post season all pro team in the four seasons he has played and the Broncos defense hasn't exactly made anyone forget about the 1985 Bears.lund6771
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 330
Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
can someone give me an example where a big named jersey or helmet was sold on the secondary market?
the only one that comes to my mind was a Tomlinson throwback, and that sold for 25% more than it did in the NFL auction
Of course I wouldn't have bid on the jersey if I didn't think he has the potential to grow into an all pro type of player, but that's speculation. I haven't seen anyone take a significant loss on a well documented, sure fire HOF caliber player's jersey yet.Comment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
Guys, since the players do not have the rights to their equipment, MAYBE the player's themselves or close family members are buying the stuff.
Players are collectors also and on more than one occassion, I've seen a player exchange a helmet or football with an oppossing player after a game at the LINC.
JimComment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
I really don't get the point of the thread. If somebody wants to pay a certain price then so be it, it is America. On the Jets website there is a bidder, johnp303, who snatches up most every high end gamer at absolutey insane prices. I believe he won a Ben Graham jersey for over 2,000 (yes, Ben Graham is a mediocre Jets punter who got benched last season)! Does it stop lesser financially gifted bidders from getting items? Sure but who cares, I say good for him if he has it. If somebody is paying 7,000 bones for an LT helmet worn for a couple games then good for that person. I know one thing, instead of serving in the world's greatest Navy (which was not very lucrative at all) I should have learned to restore cars
Still, on my very limited income I have been able to build a rather extensive and vintage Jets collection with not a single item purchased from an auction house or NFL auctions. I never purchase for investment, profit, or resale, only for the love of the Jets. Maybe a better thread would be how auction houses have turned the hobby into a business and have de personalized (yes I think I am making up words now ala Roger Clemens) the hobby to a certain extent. Trading and communicating with fellow collectors in your area of specialty is definitely on the decline.
Comment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
Funny thing is I enjoy finding and owning a flimsy nylon screened on early '90's Johnny Hector Jets jersey for a couple hundred bucks as much as I do winning a D'Brickashaw Titans on NFL Actions for 800 bucks or buying a Matt Snell 1964 jersey for eight large. I couldn't afford Maynard's SB3 shirt for nearly 30K but so what....I've had the privilege to see private collections worth more than $5M in my estimation...But I still get the same joy out of what I do own...it seems to be in some collector's DNA to focus more on what they can't afford or can't get than to simply enjoy what they do own...Not to sound preachy but we'd get more out of this hobby if we helped each other find stuff rather than take shots at each other based on financial status or personal motivation for collecting....Enjoy the hobby!Comment
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Re: NFL Auctions Pricing Reaching Unreasonable Levels?
There are cases in collecting where a wealthy person or couple of people legitimately buys items at an inflated prices-- inflated to what others would pay. When they quit buying, the prices go down, as the proverbial #2, #3 bidders/buyers won't pay as much.
An example is in the comic book market. 'Book prices' were set by two wealthy buyers who paid a lot for stuff they wanted. The purchases were legitimate. However, when they quit buying the comic book prices fell drastically as they rest of the market would not pay their prices.
So what one person pays may be a legitimate buy, but that does not always translate to what others will pay.Comment
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