How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

[treant985]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

The whole bat looks very shady to me, i hope you know who you bought it from because you will most likely need to return it. My best guess is that the bat was given to tejada but never used him, instead sold as issued and then gamed up by some seller. I strongly suggest you send it psa so you can get a case for a return.

As a final update for this supposedly questionable Manny SAM bat: I sent it to PSA about 10 days ago and got it back today. The bat was authenticated by PSA; they included the following:

"SAM Bat model CD1 Manny Ramirez professional model bat shows evidence of excellent use with a crack from the handle to the barrel. Several ball marks and ball stitch impressions are visible on the left and back barrel. Ball marks include blue ink transfers and white leather scuffs. Also visible on the bat are cleat marks and there is a moderate coat of pine tar on the upper handle and SAM logo. The handle has been scored and the lower handle and knob have been taped in a spiral pattern to enhance the grip."

It hasn't been updated in their database yet, but the number is H53429.

[treant985]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

Do you think that Manny shaved the handle or the guy he gave it to did that? Are any other Red Sox from 2004/2005 known to shave their handles?

[BMH]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

I doubt someone doctored the bat, more then likely as with most of Manny's bats he didn't like it and gave it to someone else. Manny is one of those players most bat companies send bats to see if he'll swing them in a game. The storage room in their clubhouse is full of Manny bats that he's never used. I have several Manny bats that were sent in by other players to have copies made from.

[treant985]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

The whole bat looks very shady to me, i hope you know who you bought it from because you will most likely need to return it. My best guess is that the bat was given to tejada but never used him, instead sold as issued and then gamed up by some seller. I strongly suggest you send it psa so you can get a case for a return.

I'll likely end up sending it to PSA. I guess my question is how the bat would be 'gamed up' by a seller. Would a seller shave the handle knowing that most Manny bats don't have a shaved handle? And did they go paint some baseballs blue and then hit them with it to get big blue transfers? In other words, which signs of use of the bat were actually done by a player and which were 'gamed up'? The bat has a cracked handle, so did the seller crack it or just find a cracked Manny bat lying around?

Can you guys give me additional information on Tejada and Ramirez switching bats? The tape job on the Tejada ebayer just doesn't convince me, considering other authentic Ramirez bats I've seen with all kinds of varying levels of tape. Also, why did Tejada use Ramirez's bats when they each had their own contract with Sam bats?

The seller seemed very reputable to me; of course, I don't know where the bat was before he got it. I realize that I naturally want this bat to be something authentic and thus I'm trying to find reasons why it could be, but I'm still a little unsure of the logistics of how it could've ended up NOT being used by Manny, how it got cracked, and then how it could've been gamed up.

[Sheffield11]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

The whole bat looks very shady to me, i hope you know who you bought it from because you will most likely need to return it. My best guess is that the bat was given to tejada but never used him, instead sold as issued and then gamed up by some seller. I strongly suggest you send it psa so you can get a case for a return.

[gamer35]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

I have a Manny SAM bat dated 1/21/06 and I photomatched it to at least one AB on April 20, 2007.

Instead of worrying about the dating, I would be more concerned about the characteristics that the bat shows. My guess is that if anything, it was used by Tejada during the 05 season based on the knob taping. Have not seen Manny tape his knob like that in 2005. Here is a Tejada bat with similar tape: http://cgi.ebay.com/Miguel-Tejada-ga...QQcmdZViewItem

[treant985]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

The SAMs are great especially when they are tagged later with MLB holograms so you can follow from bat production to actual game use.

Here is a great example of a Cristian Guzman SAM bat I just put up on eBay this week.

Bat made on 2/21/08 and then bat was cracked on 4/21/08 so almost exactly 2 months apart.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cristian-Guzman-Game-Used-Nationals-bat-Autod-MLB-Holo_W0QQitemZ200239941363QQihZ010QQcategoryZ60596QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I can't say this is a trend as I had Alfonso Soriano bats that were made during the season that were used shortly afterwards in games.

ALLSTARSPLUS--how long was it between when your Soriano bat was made and when it was used? I'm trying to get a feel for the min amount of time that a typical bat might experience between production and use.

[treant985]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

I found this bat perusing ebay's completed listings. The blue marks here aren't as big as on the Manny bat, but there do seem to be a lot of them in one area. It makes me wonder if some of these players do use some kind of practice ball that leaves blue transfers considerably bigger and more frequently than a normal MLB ball:

[treant985]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

Regardless of who used the bat, the big blue transfers do seem interesting. Once it's in my possession, maybe I can tell a little more about how they might've gotten on there. It would seem odd to 'fake' a gamer by putting a bunch of big blue transfers on there.

Relatedly, does anyone know of other MLer's who use that kind of tape-job like Manny does? I haven't seen anybody, but I usually don't pay much attention to the tape.

Given that Manny has been known to shave a handle here and there, I'm still thinking that the explanation that fits the best is that Manny used this for practice against a machine with balls that are marked differently than MLB balls. Perhaps something like Bonds, who would get thrown baseballs with numbers on them and would only swing at those with odd numbers.

[kylehess10]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

also why the ball marks are more blue than normal (perhaps was using different kind of balls for practice).

I was just about to question that, especially since those blue ink-tranfers on the barrel are MUCH bigger than normal.

[treant985]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

Considering when the bat was made (Oct 4), I wonder if Manny got this bat during the off-season and used it against a pitching machine or something. That might explain why he'd shave the handle when he wouldn't do it during the season, also why the ball marks are more blue than normal (perhaps was using different kind of balls for practice).

[tone1316]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

The thing other than the shaved handle that would worry me about this one is the amount of color left from the balls on this bat. I currently own 1 and have handled quite a few manny sam bats and the finish on his sam bats seems to hold up pretty well against white ball marks, usually leaving more of an impression from impact than leather marks. I will say that I do not consider myself an expert however, just an example of what i've seen

One recent ebay example of what I mean.

[gamer35]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

I wouldnt use a bat from his 'foundation' as a good example of a true game used bat.

Also, the tape job on your bat looks a little weird, not a typical Manny tape job. I know he traded bats with Tejada during 2005 but am not really familiar with Tejada use characterstics.

[treant985]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

I looked at the ball mark positions, but then I saw a Manny bat that came straight from his authentication, and it appears to have hits on the back of the barrel (albeit not as many as the one I have), and they're also lower down towards the cup like the one I have. ebay # 260265340906.

[gamer35]

Re: How long between a bat being produced and being used in a game?

I am not sure if the bat displays Manny use characteristics, looks like all of the ball marks are on the wrong side of the barrel. Also, I havent seen many legit Manny bats with a shaved handle during his tenure in Boston.