The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

"Would an order for two jersey at one time be considered one set (ie. from the same order)?"

my opinion is yes. the two jerseys would be in the same purchase order and likely labeled set 1 and set 2. however, i don't believe purchase orders or set numbers have any relevance in this case. neither of these jerseys was supposed to have been specifically ordered for ripken. they're supposed to be spares. the letter from the orioles asst. equipment manager states as much:

"Since Cal wasn't expected to make the majors until 1983, there was no 1981 uniform pre-made for him (ie: ordered specifically for him). As was the case in those situations then (and now), it was up to the equipment staff to come up with something on a moment's notice. The Orioles for many seasons used a seamstress at Lord Baltimore Cleaners to stitch on the appliques (i.e. numbers and nameplates) using materials provided by the club...This was the case with Cal's first uniform, including the road jersey that this letter will accompany"

ripken was called up on august 8, 1981. he played his first game on august 10. the orioles didn't play any games on august 8 or 9. on 8/6/81, a shipment of bats from louisville slugger was sent to rochester for ripken. this tells me that ripken didn't know far ahead of time that he'd be called up on 8/8. he played in 23 games that season.

here's what bothers me about both of the ripken jerseys: it's apparent that ripken, upon being called up without much notice on august 8, was issued a spare for his first jersey. spares are blanks that've been ordered for call-ups and trades, as well as to replace lost, stolen, or damaged shirts. they're intended to get a player suited up asap when there's no time to place and receive a factory order. the team orders a variety of popular sizes that would likely cover such emergencies. with all of this being the case, why do both ripken jerseys have customizations? who orders a spare specifically with 3" of extra length? the letter says that ripken was issued a spare prepared "on a moment's notice". upon ripken's arrival, the orioles would've grabbed a spare and had it done up locally. you don't order spares with customizations because you have no clue who'll be using those spares. customizations are player-unique. ripken had no opportunity to request extra length on august 8. ripken probably arrived in baltimore the day before the game. 2"/3" of extra length is not a spare. it's a customized jersey ordered from the factory for a specific player. it makes no sense.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

assuming the letters carry weight, i'd like to know how it's possible to know that the letters never switched jerseys. that is, that the letters refer specifically to the ebay jersey.

rudy.

[ironmanfan]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

Ripken wasn't called up "on a moment's notice" (which generally occurs when one player is injured or suddenly released). It was well planned that he would join the parent club as soon as the player's strike was over in '81 (his debut as a pinch runner was the first game back after the strike). He may have even made the Orioles in the spring that year, but the Orioles were fearful that a strike would occur and they chose to send him to AAA so that he could play.

[allstarsplus]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

assuming the letters carry weight, i'd like to know how it's possible to know that the letters never switched jerseys. that is, that the letters refer specifically to the ebay jersey.

rudy.

I know nothing about these jerseys, but certainly know that the possibility exists that letters can be switched, letters can be forged on real letterhead, letters can be forged on fake letterhead and real letters can be written with good intention based on bad information.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

Ripken wasn't called up "on a moment's notice" (which generally occurs when one player is injured or suddenly released). It was well planned that he would join the parent club as soon as the player's strike was over in '81 (his debut as a pinch runner was the first game back after the strike). He may have even made the Orioles in the spring that year, but the Orioles were fearful that a strike would occur and they chose to send him to AAA so that he could play.

you probably know far more about ripken than me. however, how do you explain:

1) the letter stating that ripken wasn't expected to make the club until 1983

2) the shipment of LVSs on 8/6/81 to rochester? the players strike was in july. if it was well-planned that he was to join the club as soon as it was over, why have an entire order to go rochester and then lug them to baltimore when you could just have them sent straight to baltimore?

are you implying that ripken did indeed place an order for his orioles shirts and that spares were not used? if so, that contradicts the letter. i'm not saying either is right or wrong. i'm simply that saying that it seems likely that he was issued spares and that customized jerseys aren't spares.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

from Ripken's book "The Only Way I Know":

"Despite a pretty good camp and Jim Palmer's accolade that I was now the best athlete on hand, I was eventually cut and assigned to the minor league camp, and from there to the Triple-A team in Rochester. I wasn't disappointed...Also I'd known I wasn't going to make the Orioles straight out of Double-A anyway...Also the club had openings in 1977, when Reggie Jackson and Bobby Grich left for free agency, and it didn't have openings in 1981. As far back as I can remember Dad had sat down one day every winter and listed the roster of the forty players invited to spring training and a second list of the twenty five players he thought would still be around with the Orioles on Opening Day. He had compiled other lists for the minor league teams. In 1981 I was on the long list for the spring camp, but not on the short one for the final team. There wasn't a spot for me...
When I left the Major League camp, Ray Miller said my having a good year in Rochester might help the big club win 105 games. I hoped so...
On August 8, Doc Edwards told me in the clubhouse that I'd been called to Baltimore. The Major League clubs had been allowed to expand their rosters by two players. Jeff Schneider and I were the choices for the Orioles. I knew about the new positions, of course, and I'd been hopeful because I was playing well, but it was still a surprise...At the same time, I was afraid this wasn't "for real". The Orioles didn't have a place for me to play, not full-time, which is what I wanted. Doug DeCinces was the third baseman, and a very good one. His back had been a problem that year and so had his shoulder, and noone could be sure he'd be ready to play after the strike layoff, but I wasn't likely to push Doug aside if he stayed healthy..."

anyway, if you read the book, it's apparent that the Orioles made the big decision on Ripken in winter of 1981. 1981 was a surprise, 1982 wasn't.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

at a minimum, i think the Orioles letter contradicts itself/the jersey.

"..there was no 1981 uniform pre-made for him"

if, as the letter states, there was no 1981 jersey "pre-made" (ordered specifically) for ripken then why does the jersey have a 3" customization? the letter, from the asst. equipment manager, explicitly states they didn't have a jersey waiting for ripken in 1981 so who ordered the customization?

i also find it a little odd that ripken was given 2 road jerseys for the 20 road games he was on the roster for from a cheap club like Orioles. after sept 4, he had no plate appearances. he played 7 road games in 1981.

rudy.

[commando]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

at a minimum, i think the Orioles letter contradicts itself/the jersey.

"..there was no 1981 uniform pre-made for him"

if, as the letter states, there was no 1981 jersey "pre-made" (ordered specifically) for ripken then why does the jersey have a 3" customization? the letter, from the asst. equipment manager, explicitly states they didn't have a jersey waiting for ripken in 1981 so who ordered the customization?

i also find it a little odd that ripken was given 2 road jerseys for the 20 road games he was on the roster for from a cheap club like Orioles. after sept 4, he had no plate appearances. he played 7 road games in 1981.

rudy.

While I have no specific knowledge of the Orioles, wouldn't teams have a large variety of blanks on hand -- including jerseys with extra length? Since these customizations are made on the factory level, it's safe to say that 3" blanks, stored in the clubhouse and ready when needed, are not that big a deal.

[Danny899]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

at a minimum, i think the Orioles letter contradicts itself/the jersey.

"..there was no 1981 uniform pre-made for him"

if, as the letter states, there was no 1981 jersey "pre-made" (ordered specifically) for ripken then why does the jersey have a 3" customization? the letter, from the asst. equipment manager, explicitly states they didn't have a jersey waiting for ripken in 1981 so who ordered the customization?

i also find it a little odd that ripken was given 2 road jerseys for the 20 road games he was on the roster for from a cheap club like Orioles. after sept 4, he had no plate appearances. he played 7 road games in 1981.

rudy.

Rudy,
I stand corrected from my last post. I believed you thought the jersey was still good, however some indicators, specifically the card issue were of concern to you. Now after reading your many posts it's apparent you don't think it's good. Which is fine, everyone has opinions here. You ask who ordered the customization in one of your threads. My answer is nobody did. I think, and this is just me, many times a team will pull a blank jersey for a call up or a sudden trade and put the name and number on the jersey. Especially a late season rookie call up. Certainly you know this? This one just happened to have the "custom 3" This is not unusual and happens quite often. I'll end my contribution to this thread by stating that I think this Ripken jersey is a great piece. It's just not worth 100G.

[ironmanfan]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

from Ripken's book "The Only Way I Know":

"Despite a pretty good camp and Jim Palmer's accolade that I was now the best athlete on hand, I was eventually cut and assigned to the minor league camp, and from there to the Triple-A team in Rochester. I wasn't disappointed...Also I'd known I wasn't going to make the Orioles straight out of Double-A anyway...Also the club had openings in 1977, when Reggie Jackson and Bobby Grich left for free agency, and it didn't have openings in 1981. As far back as I can remember Dad had sat down one day every winter and listed the roster of the forty players invited to spring training and a second list of the twenty five players he thought would still be around with the Orioles on Opening Day. He had compiled other lists for the minor league teams. In 1981 I was on the long list for the spring camp, but not on the short one for the final team. There wasn't a spot for me...
When I left the Major League camp, Ray Miller said my having a good year in Rochester might help the big club win 105 games. I hoped so...
On August 8, Doc Edwards told me in the clubhouse that I'd been called to Baltimore. The Major League clubs had been allowed to expand their rosters by two players. Jeff Schneider and I were the choices for the Orioles. I knew about the new positions, of course, and I'd been hopeful because I was playing well, but it was still a surprise...At the same time, I was afraid this wasn't "for real". The Orioles didn't have a place for me to play, not full-time, which is what I wanted. Doug DeCinces was the third baseman, and a very good one. His back had been a problem that year and so had his shoulder, and noone could be sure he'd be ready to play after the strike layoff, but I wasn't likely to push Doug aside if he stayed healthy..."

anyway, if you read the book, it's apparent that the Orioles made the big decision on Ripken in winter of 1981. 1981 was a surprise, 1982 wasn't.

rudy.

My favorite passage in Ripken's autobiography comes on page 298

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

While I have no specific knowledge of the Orioles, wouldn't teams have a large variety of blanks on hand -- including jerseys with extra length? Since these customizations are made on the factory level, it's safe to say that 3" blanks, stored in the clubhouse and ready when needed, are not that big a deal.

you've boiled the issue down to the essential question: are blanks ordered with or without customizations? my opinion is that they aren't. i don't believe it makes much sense. i believe they'd order a variety of sizes but not customizations because customizations aren't common. 3" of extra length in 1981 would be uncommon. why purchase atypical blanks especially if you're a cheap team like the Orioles? most of them would end up wasted. it'd be like ordering twenty size 52s in 1981. you'd order blanks that would have the likeliest appeal. 42s, 44s, 46s, a few 48s. you think they'd then go ahead and also order ones with 1" extra length, 2" extra length, 3" extra length? where do you stop? of course, this is all conjecture on my end as i've never worked in a major league clubhouse. maybe they did order blanks with atypical customizations.

to me, a more likely scenario with the ripken jersey, if legit, is that it was made up from another players jersey and that player had ordered the 3" extra length. johnny oriole made the squad, ordered his custom jersey, got cut or traded, then cal came along and liked the 44+3" and the orioles stripped the nameplate off and put ripkens on. of course this would mean there'd be evidence of an alteration.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

Rudy,
I stand corrected from my last post. I believed you thought the jersey was still good, however some indicators, specifically the card issue were of concern to you. Now after reading your many posts it's apparent you don't think it's good. Which is fine, everyone has opinions here. You ask who ordered the customization in one of your threads. My answer is nobody did. I think, and this is just me, many times a team will pull a blank jersey for a call up or a sudden trade and put the name and number on the jersey. Especially a late season rookie call up. Certainly you know this? This one just happened to have the "custom 3" This is not unusual and happens quite often. I'll end my contribution to this thread by stating that I think this Ripken jersey is a great piece. It's just not worth 100G.

initially i had no opinion on the jersey either way. i solely meant to point out that there were 2 of these things out there and both purported to be the one on the card. later, the customizations started to strike me as illogical. the jersey is supposed to be a blank. the letter states as much. my personal opinion is that blanks don't have customizations.
i don't believe either ripken "isn't good". i have no opinion on them. maybe they're both good, maybe only one is, maybe neither. who knows. i'm just thinking aloud in these posts about the issue of whether a blank would or would not be customized. apparently some, including yourself, believe blanks are ordered with very specific customizations. i don't believe they are. you say "it just happened to have the 3" of extra length". to me that's the entire issue. it just happened to be customized? i find it unlikely.
i don't know which of us is right.
as for the value of the jersey, i think everyone would agree it's likely not even worth half of the ridiculous $100k amount. in 2001, the lelands one sold for $20k. i wonder how much of that value was based on the belief that there was only one of these out there in existance.

rudy.

[Rob L]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

It seems to me that Rudy has not been opining on whether the jerseys are real or fake, just raising questions that should be thoroughly answered before someone would spend large sums of money. If someone is happy with the two letters, then so be it. Rudy has just brought up some potential inconsistencies. Inconsistencies don't mean there fake, but it would be nice to have some sort of answer from a knowledgeable source that can confirm that the inconsistencies are okay.

[Danny899]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

you've boiled the issue down to the essential question: are blanks ordered with or without customizations? my opinion is that they aren't. i don't believe it makes much sense. i believe they'd order a variety of sizes but not customizations because customizations aren't common. 3" of extra length in 1981 would be uncommon. why purchase atypical blanks especially if you're a cheap team like the Orioles? most of them would end up wasted. it'd be like ordering twenty size 52s in 1981. you'd order blanks that would have the likeliest appeal. 42s, 44s, 46s, a few 48s. you think they'd then go ahead and also order ones with 1" extra length, 2" extra length, 3" extra length? where do you stop? of course, this is all conjecture on my end as i've never worked in a major league clubhouse. maybe they did order blanks with atypical customizations.


rudy.

Rudy, I had one of Rickey Henderson's first Mariners jerseys. It was a 44 with 2 inches extra length. Great typical Henderson wear on this jersey. Can you imagine Rickey, who preferred short tailored fronts wearing this? The provenance was solid and it was a great pick up. By the way, can you lend me 100G? I see a jersey I really like.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

Rudy, I had one of Rickey Henderson's first Mariners jerseys. It was a 44 with 2 inches extra length. Great typical Henderson wear on this jersey. Can you imagine Rickey, who preferred short tailored fronts wearing this?

hey danny

like these?:

http://lelands.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=73677

http://lelands.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=73707

actually i can't. not only did the mariners not have a single 44 blank as early in the season as may, but after getting his atypical 44+2, rickey didn't cut the hems off himself?

here's a 2000 henderson mariners gamer from man of steal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220289749829

here's a 2000 henderson mets gamer from man of steal.."-1 length":

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=36758

i've seen so many 2000 mariners henderson shirts. i wonder how one can know which of those shirts were his first. the provenance on your jersey ..man of steal? you know who i'd like to hear from..reid fontaine. paging mr. fontaine... mr. reid fontaine.

rudy.