The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

at a minimum, i think the Orioles letter contradicts itself/the jersey.

"..there was no 1981 uniform pre-made for him"

if, as the letter states, there was no 1981 jersey "pre-made" (ordered specifically) for ripken then why does the jersey have a 3" customization? the letter, from the asst. equipment manager, explicitly states they didn't have a jersey waiting for ripken in 1981 so who ordered the customization?

i also find it a little odd that ripken was given 2 road jerseys for the 20 road games he was on the roster for from a cheap club like Orioles. after sept 4, he had no plate appearances. he played 7 road games in 1981.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

from Ripken's book "The Only Way I Know":

"Despite a pretty good camp and Jim Palmer's accolade that I was now the best athlete on hand, I was eventually cut and assigned to the minor league camp, and from there to the Triple-A team in Rochester. I wasn't disappointed...Also I'd known I wasn't going to make the Orioles straight out of Double-A anyway...Also the club had openings in 1977, when Reggie Jackson and Bobby Grich left for free agency, and it didn't have openings in 1981. As far back as I can remember Dad had sat down one day every winter and listed the roster of the forty players invited to spring training and a second list of the twenty five players he thought would still be around with the Orioles on Opening Day. He had compiled other lists for the minor league teams. In 1981 I was on the long list for the spring camp, but not on the short one for the final team. There wasn't a spot for me...
When I left the Major League camp, Ray Miller said my having a good year in Rochester might help the big club win 105 games. I hoped so...
On August 8, Doc Edwards told me in the clubhouse that I'd been called to Baltimore. The Major League clubs had been allowed to expand their rosters by two players. Jeff Schneider and I were the choices for the Orioles. I knew about the new positions, of course, and I'd been hopeful because I was playing well, but it was still a surprise...At the same time, I was afraid this wasn't "for real". The Orioles didn't have a place for me to play, not full-time, which is what I wanted. Doug DeCinces was the third baseman, and a very good one. His back had been a problem that year and so had his shoulder, and noone could be sure he'd be ready to play after the strike layoff, but I wasn't likely to push Doug aside if he stayed healthy..."

anyway, if you read the book, it's apparent that the Orioles made the big decision on Ripken in winter of 1981. 1981 was a surprise, 1982 wasn't.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

Ripken wasn't called up "on a moment's notice" (which generally occurs when one player is injured or suddenly released). It was well planned that he would join the parent club as soon as the player's strike was over in '81 (his debut as a pinch runner was the first game back after the strike). He may have even made the Orioles in the spring that year, but the Orioles were fearful that a strike would occur and they chose to send him to AAA so that he could play.

you probably know far more about ripken than me. however, how do you explain:

1) the letter stating that ripken wasn't expected to make the club until 1983

2) the shipment of LVSs on 8/6/81 to rochester? the players strike was in july. if it was well-planned that he was to join the club as soon as it was over, why have an entire order to go rochester and then lug them to baltimore when you could just have them sent straight to baltimore?

are you implying that ripken did indeed place an order for his orioles shirts and that spares were not used? if so, that contradicts the letter. i'm not saying either is right or wrong. i'm simply that saying that it seems likely that he was issued spares and that customized jerseys aren't spares.

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

assuming the letters carry weight, i'd like to know how it's possible to know that the letters never switched jerseys. that is, that the letters refer specifically to the ebay jersey.

rudy.

I know nothing about these jerseys, but certainly know that the possibility exists that letters can be switched, letters can be forged on real letterhead, letters can be forged on fake letterhead and real letters can be written with good intention based on bad information.

[ironmanfan]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

Ripken wasn't called up "on a moment's notice" (which generally occurs when one player is injured or suddenly released). It was well planned that he would join the parent club as soon as the player's strike was over in '81 (his debut as a pinch runner was the first game back after the strike). He may have even made the Orioles in the spring that year, but the Orioles were fearful that a strike would occur and they chose to send him to AAA so that he could play.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

assuming the letters carry weight, i'd like to know how it's possible to know that the letters never switched jerseys. that is, that the letters refer specifically to the ebay jersey.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

"Would an order for two jersey at one time be considered one set (ie. from the same order)?"

my opinion is yes. the two jerseys would be in the same purchase order and likely labeled set 1 and set 2. however, i don't believe purchase orders or set numbers have any relevance in this case. neither of these jerseys was supposed to have been specifically ordered for ripken. they're supposed to be spares. the letter from the orioles asst. equipment manager states as much:

"Since Cal wasn't expected to make the majors until 1983, there was no 1981 uniform pre-made for him (ie: ordered specifically for him). As was the case in those situations then (and now), it was up to the equipment staff to come up with something on a moment's notice. The Orioles for many seasons used a seamstress at Lord Baltimore Cleaners to stitch on the appliques (i.e. numbers and nameplates) using materials provided by the club...This was the case with Cal's first uniform, including the road jersey that this letter will accompany"

ripken was called up on august 8, 1981. he played his first game on august 10. the orioles didn't play any games on august 8 or 9. on 8/6/81, a shipment of bats from louisville slugger was sent to rochester for ripken. this tells me that ripken didn't know far ahead of time that he'd be called up on 8/8. he played in 23 games that season.

here's what bothers me about both of the ripken jerseys: it's apparent that ripken, upon being called up without much notice on august 8, was issued a spare for his first jersey. spares are blanks that've been ordered for call-ups and trades, as well as to replace lost, stolen, or damaged shirts. they're intended to get a player suited up asap when there's no time to place and receive a factory order. the team orders a variety of popular sizes that would likely cover such emergencies. with all of this being the case, why do both ripken jerseys have customizations? who orders a spare specifically with 3" of extra length? the letter says that ripken was issued a spare prepared "on a moment's notice". upon ripken's arrival, the orioles would've grabbed a spare and had it done up locally. you don't order spares with customizations because you have no clue who'll be using those spares. customizations are player-unique. ripken had no opportunity to request extra length on august 8. ripken probably arrived in baltimore the day before the game. 2"/3" of extra length is not a spare. it's a customized jersey ordered from the factory for a specific player. it makes no sense.

rudy.

[Rob L]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

anyway, i never implied the ebay jersey wasn't good. i only meant to post that there are 2 jerseys out there that claim to be the one on the topps card. that's it. oddly, both of them have different customizations. as well, both of them are set 1 from an era when set numbers actually meant something.

rudy.

Hey Rudy,

Just curious, Ripken only played 20 games that season. As you stated, Set numbers meant something in the early 1980s. Would an order for two jersey at one time be considered one set (ie. from the same order)? It's interesting that the two 1981 jerseys both have the same set number but different dimensions. It sure would be cool to be able to actually match one of the jerseys to the Topps card.

[aeneas01]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

I agree Buc, it seems that when an item is expensive, some of the members here try to discredit the item; maybe it makes them feel better.

i don't think this statement is fair - there have been many high end items (read: expensive) over the years that never drew sharp criticism from any forum member - nor were they discredited. a maynard helmet and elway jersey come immediately to mind...

[Danny899]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

I'm not saying it is worth that (or anywhere even close to it,) but after reading the letters on the auction, it is apparent to me that the jersey is real. That was what I was talking about.

Buc,
You're not the only one who feels that the jersey is good. Don't get caught up with the theories that one letter or number being slighty smaller or larger than another means that a jersey is not authentic. Again, intelligent, informed collectors realize that slight deviations in a jersey's lettering, fonts and tagging do not mean it's not authentic. Lastly, I don't think Rudy was saying that the jersey wasn't authentic, rather he was was only indicating that only 1 jersey could be the one on the card. Buc and Cincy also bring up valid points reference this jersey. They certainly don't need to be the seller of the jersey to post their opinions here regardless of their views contrasting others.

[Danny899]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

I agree Buc, it seems that when an item is expensive, some of the members here try to discredit the item; maybe it makes them feel better.

No! That NEVER happens here!!! This forum??

[buc]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

No, I'm not the seller, nor do I know or have any affiliation with him. And the letter from the curator of the Museum is just one of the many letters that accompany the jersey as stated in the auction. I can't make out all the fine print on the letter from the assistant equipment manager, but I can make out enough to see that the jersey was basically "thrown together" to have jerseys for Ripken to wear.
Again, I don't think it is anywhere near worth what the seller is asking for it, but I do feel it to be real and I think the letters of provenance on this one are pretty solid.
You reference the Namath helmet and the piece of art. Anyone who looks at pictures can tell the Namath helmet was not real. I'm sure Namath did not care what he wrote. Jack Dempsey gave away the ring bell to one of his famous title fights to three different people, claiming to each that the bell was the original bell used at the fight. I don't know and don't care if this jersey was the one used in the picture, and I don't believe the seller should claim it to be either without proof, but I do think it is an authentic jersey worn by Ripken. That was my only point.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

buc & cincy13:

are either of you the seller of the ebay jersey?

anyway, i never implied the ebay jersey wasn't good. i only meant to post that there are 2 jerseys out there that claim to be the one on the topps card. that's it. oddly, both of them have different customizations. as well, both of them are set 1 from an era when set numbers actually meant something.

"For goodness sake, the e-bay auction has a letter from the curator of the Ripken Museum who actually displayed this jersey."

i don't mean to sound condescending but whoop-dee-!#*-doo. the curator of the ripken museum. where did he acquire the jersey from? how long has he been collecting 80s oriole gamers? how about this provenance:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=15007

a letter from joe namath and everything that turned out to be worthless. do you know how many world-class museums and preminent scholars are fooled by forgeries in art and antiquities?

""The Getty Kouros was offered, along with seven other pieces, to The J. Paul Getty Museum in Malibu, California in the spring of 1983. For the next twelve years art historians, conservators, and archeologists studied the Kouros, scientific tests were performed and showed that the surface could not have been created artificially. However, when several of the other pieces offered with the Kouros, were shown to be forgeries, its authenticity was again questioned. In May of 1992, the Kouros was displayed in Athens, Greece, at an international conference, called to determine its authenticity. The conference failed to solve the problem; while most art historians and archeologists denounced it, the scientists present believed the statue to be authentic. To this day, the Getty Kouros' authenticity remains a mystery and the statue is displayed with the date: "Greek, 530 B.C. or modern forgery".

the getty museum, which is one of the most highly esteemed museums in the world, spent 12 yrs trying to determine authenticity. teams of scientists, archeologists, and art historians couldn't determine whether it was good or not. maybe they should've called the curator of the ripken museum who, apparently, is an infallible genius.

"..after reading the letters on the auction, it is apparent to me that the jersey is real."

i'm sure many people thought the same about the namath helmet and countless other items with "rock solid" provenance that later turned out to be garbage. the mantle glove and carew glove with letters from the athletes themselves that only showed that their memories were a little hazy. if you honestly purchase items based solely on provenance then this is going to be a long, hard hobby for you.

rudy.

[buc]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

I'm not saying it is worth that (or anywhere even close to it,) but after reading the letters on the auction, it is apparent to me that the jersey is real. That was what I was talking about.

[Rob L]

Re: The $100,000 Ripken Jersey

I agree Buc, it seems that when an item is expensive, some of the members here try to discredit the item; maybe it makes them feel better.

Uuummm. Ok. It's refreshing to hear that some would plunk down $100,000 without fully researching and questioning an item's authenticity.