Game Used Favre Story in SCD

[mvandor]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

another favre jersey (unsigned) currently listed at grey flannel...

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/LotDetail3.aspx?lotid=19198

...

Hmm, certainly seems like Favre has been accounting for his jerseys through Thomason further back than 2007. How'd this one, unsigned and sans paperwork, get outside the system I have to ask?

[lund6771]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Hmm, certainly seems like Favre has been accounting for his jerseys through Thomason further back than 2007. How'd this one, unsigned and sans paperwork, get outside the system I have to ask?

Hardly any of their newer football jerseys have any provenance...

Adrian Peterson, Favre, etc have their own deals going....how could they possibly sell them without any provenance?...Oh, the back door story?...sure...that's what some of these auction guys will be getting themselves when they get nailed selling this trash...don't bend over for the soap!!

Players like Tom Brady are IMPOSSIBLE to get, along with Steelers equipment....yet they are sold all the time

Waaaaaaaaayyyyy to much garbage out there...

anyways I'm starting to get off topic....

[gwh11]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

It's worth reiterating that not every Favre jersey w/the hologram, paperwork, etc. is bogus. The legitimate Favre jersey I used as a comparison in the photos I took for the article came with a letter and picture, for example. However, from what I am aware of, it does seem as if the majority are fakes.

What I found interesting is how these bogus jerseys all had unique "problems". For example, I examined another Favre jersey similar to the 2004 discussed in the article. This was after Chris had nearly finished the piece. This jersey had a contrived 02-52 year/size tag in the collar, and, of course, was larger than a 52. It was hemmed the same way, but the sleeve construction was correct. The sleeves on the '04 were constructed and sewn on much differently than what you would expect to find on a legitimate jersey.

Guy

[mvandor]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

However, from what I am aware of, it does seem as if the majority are fakes.

Do I understand you correctly, that your opinion is that a majority of Favre GU jerseys with Favre paperwork are fake? That's a pretty significant statement.

[RKGIBSON]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

I would like to say that I have always found Radke a good and decent guy to deal with.

I want to offer up my Favre jersey for some reference point and so we can see if the paperwork is consistant. First, pictures of my jersey and a game photo. I photo matched it before I bought it.

Then the watermark on the paperwork. Is it the same on the fraudulent jerseys? The letters came from Radke so I would guess all in this era should have the same paper.

It is hard to see in the picture but written in the collar with a black marker is CTB. Is this on any other jerseys?

Roger

[RKGIBSON]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

CJB in the collar, SORRY, we need to be able to edit.

Roger

[gwh11]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Roger: Could the "B" be a sloppy "R"? It would make more sense, since your jersey was worn in games against Chicago, the Jaguars and the Rams.

Mvandor: Unfortunately, at this point, yes, I believe the majority of these jerseys w/letters are fakes. Again, this is from what I've seen. There certainly could be the possibility that a larger number of good ones are secure in collections, and never resold or given exposure to other collectors. I hope that's the case, but I'd like to see evidence of that.

-Guy

[lund6771]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Roger: Could the "B" be a sloppy "R"? It would make more sense, since your jersey was worn in games against Chicago, the Jaguars and the Rams.

Mvandor: Unfortunately, at this point, yes, I believe the majority of these jerseys w/letters are fakes. Again, this is from what I've seen. There certainly could be the possibility that a larger number of good ones are secure in collections, and never resold or given exposure to other collectors. I hope that's the case, but I'd like to see evidence of that.

-Guy

Guy...

whats your guess on the percentage that are bad out there?

That would really be bad for the hobby if we're talking a high percentage

[lund6771]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Here is my Favre from 2004...sorry for the bad pics...there is one is 100% a good one


lund6771 vbmenu_register("postmenu_62264", true);
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Re: Show Me your NFL stuff
here is my favorite jersey that is photo/video matched to multiple games in 2004...this has to be one of the best Favre jerseys out there...hopefully these pics will come through
Attached Images

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#65
12-02-2007, 07:42 AM
lund6771 vbmenu_register("postmenu_62267", true);
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Re: Show Me your NFL stuff
the last pic in the previous post shows a repair on the front, right next to the #4...also notice the mark under the 4 on the left sleeve


Attached Images

[lund6771]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

sorry for the multiple posts, but look at the purple line on the #4 on the left sleeve...perfect match

The repair to the right of the 4 on front is a no brainer

[otismalibu]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

That can't be a photo match.

There are no red circles and the picture isn't blurry enough.

[otismalibu]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

[mattmueller]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

One thing to note is the various places Favre is in the photos of him signing/holding the jerseys. I have these photos with him sitting in his truck (when its is raining), standing in what appears to be a golf course, sitting in a garage, and the AMI one looks like he is standing in the doorway of a garage. These don't seem to be situations where he really sat down and fully examined the jersey to make sure it was game used. Would those not seem to indicate he was handed a jersey, told this is from the "xx" game, he signs it, puts a hologram on it and he is done with it?

[lund6771]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

in he picture that Brett is with my jersey, he is holding it up in a bar or restaurant

I started thinking more about what the actual "chain" could be...

Who is putting the jerseys in front of Brett to sign?....if it is Thomason, how and where would he get them?...it wouldn't make any sence that he received the real ones from Brett, and than at a later date get back together with Brett to have him sign them plus bad ones?..why wouldn't Brett sign them BEFORE they got to Thomasons hands?...maybe Brett had a pile of them, would hook up with Thomason every couple of months, and sign them all in one sitting but made a few mistakes?....that theory is wrong as well, because as Rudy pointed out, why wouldn't they all be team issued instead being terribly fake?

If they were signed before they got to Thomason, than there is obviously someone else involved with making up these fakes...Thomason is a friend of Brett's and maybe he's just making some cash on the flip to Radtke?

Lots if if's, and's, or but's here.....but at least the chain is short and my guess is that it would n't take long to figure out who dun it

[kingjammy24]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

I started thinking more about what the actual "chain" could be...

Who is putting the jerseys in front of Brett to sign?....if it is Thomason, how and where would he get them?...it wouldn't make any sence that he received the real ones from Brett, and than at a later date get back together with Brett to have him sign them plus bad ones?..why wouldn't Brett sign them BEFORE they got to Thomasons hands?...maybe Brett had a pile of them, would hook up with Thomason every couple of months, and sign them all in one sitting but made a few mistakes?....that theory is wrong as well, because as Rudy pointed out, why wouldn't they all be team issued instead being terribly fake?

If they were signed before they got to Thomason, than there is obviously someone else involved with making up these fakes...Thomason is a friend of Brett's and maybe he's just making some cash on the flip to Radtke?

Lots if if's, and's, or but's here.....but at least the chain is short and my guess is that it would n't take long to figure out who dun it

here are my opinions:

these aren't mistakes because the shirts themselves have been visibly doctored. red batty and brett favre could order as many perfectly-to-spec, game-issued shirts as they liked straight from the manufacturer. neither would have any need to spend the time and effort in doctoring shirts. they both have unlimited access to as much of the real stuff as they want.

as for the chain, the article quoted bus cook, favre's agent, saying that thomason handled all of favre's memorabilia. awhile back, thomason got together with the authorities and pursued some folks who were forging favre's signature. thomason, by most accounts, seems to be the exclusive gatekeeper to favre in terms of memorabilia. for various reasons, i'm sure he likes to keep it that way. from looking at various photos, it seems to me that these jerseys (both legit and fraudulent) seem to be have been washed so let's start from the beginning. favre enters the locker room and suits up for the game. the jersey he puts on is supplied by red batty and is a proper-spec, favre shirt with proper sizing, customizations, lettering, stitching, etc. favre then goes out and plays the game and returns to the locker room at the end. he's sweaty and exhausted and most likely wants to change and go home. i don't think favre is having the jersey washed immediately as he enters the locker room. it'd be a hassle to either wait around the entire time it's being washed and dried or to have to return to the stadium to retrieve it. i'd guess that the equipment staff need to pack everything up for the trip out and they pack favre's items along with the rest of the teams'. i'm guessing favre's post game routine in terms of his uniform and him getting out of the stadium is much the same as the rest of the teams. they've all got to catch the same bus and the same flight out and the equipment staff likely has their well-established procedures for packing everything up. after a game ends, i'm unsure if favre personally takes the jersey with him or if its just packed up with all of the teams other jerseys. if it's the former, then favre could then deliver the jersey to thomason who'd then have the jersey washed and signed, etc. if it's the latter, then favre would have to re-connect with the packers staff to get his jersey back after they'd washed it. i don't think the packers staff is pulling a fast one here and giving brett bad jerseys. as the scd article states, the packers have conducted their own investigation and come up empty and, unlike some others, i don't believe they have much of a bias. i don't think the packers would hesitate or care in firing a staff member found to be stealing favre's jerseys and giving him doctored ones.

favre can't sign the jersey before he gives it to thomason because it needs to be washed. plus i don't think favre wants the responsibility and hassle of personally having to record all of the details of each game with each specific jersey. i imagine that during the season favre's life is pretty hectic. if he's appointed thomason to take care of all of the logistics of his memorabilia, then he probably leaves all of the logistics and details to thomason including recording the games, opponents, scores, etc that each jersey was used in. after a game, i don't think favre is running back to the locker room and writing down the score and opponent and date on a little notepad and quickly washing his jersey so he can sign it asap, nor do i think he travels around with a package of holograms that he quickly applies after each game. my guess is that favre wants to make this entire process as practical and easy as possible for himself so he just leaves it all up to thomason. so either favre hands thomason a dirty jersey or a clean one. at some point in the future, thomason and favre meet to sign each jersey with thomason (or a representative) feeding favre the info to be signed on each shirt. i'm guessing it's thomason's group who types out the letters and applies the hologram. as you can see in the photo of brett holding up the jersey, he's signed it all and it still doesn't have a hologram.
my guess is favre delivers the jerseys to thomason and they meet at a later date and favre signs whatever he's told to on each shirt and signs each letter, one after the other, and completely trusts that the person laying the jerseys in front of him is being honest. in order for favre to sign the jerseys prior to all of this, it'd mean he'd have to have them washed first and he'd have to record the details of each game and personally coordinate which records went with each jersey. why bother with all of that when you've got your friend and memorabilia agent to take care of it all for you?

rudy.