Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

[kingjammy24]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

joel,

allow me to rephrase my question: if you weren't an ebay dealer who realizes profits from MEARS certs, would you be vehemently defending MEARS' policies in the same manner as you are now?

i realize no profits or loss of profits from MEARS. my opinion stems solely from my genuine interest in the hobby.

if you have the time, i'm dying to know what telling someone to "Go back to your basement with your bricks" means. it sounds like a great insult that i'd like to start using. up until now i've been using george costanza's "stuff your sorrys in a sack, mister" but telling someone to "go back to their basement with their bricks" is even better, once i figure out what it means.

rudy.

[trsent]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

"Rudy, I have not been selling anything major on eBay recently, what is your point?"

joel, my question didn't specify whether your sales were recent or not. again, does your fervent defense of MEARS have anything to do with the notion that if folks began to lose faith in MEARS, your sales would be negatively affected? i believe it's a relevant question that goes to your real motivations.

myself, i'm not a dealer (unless you count 2 jerseys i sold from my personal collection in order to refocus it and took a loss on both). i've never been an authenticator or worked in an auction house. i have no industry or hobby affiliations. by trade, i'm a software designer.

"What do I collect? Why?"

well i just noticed that it's a rather odd thing to read over 1500 of a member's posts, not including those on the old forum, and have absolutely no idea what he collects. howard's a phillies man, steinmetz is into cubbie shirts, stangel's into old yankees and chargers shirts, i'm a blue jays man, greg otismalibu's a dr.j collector, aeneas enjoy vintage football lids, caravello's a mattingly collector, i could go on and on. but you?

"I do not believe you have to be a collector to post on this forum. I do have a large collection of checks that people bounced on me over the years."

well no you don't but it's certainly an odd place to come for someone who doesn't collect anything but bounced checks. i'm starting to wonder if you just traverse the internet looking for squabbles, regardless of what the forum is about. stop in at the persian-cat-breeders forum and ruffle a few feathers there then drop in to see the folks at the camaro-lovers forum and let them know how crazy they are. any forum will do, doesn't even matter what the topic is.

anyway, as to your anonymous admirer:

lampson: if your admirer has any way for me to contact lampson, be it email, fax, phone number, anything - please let me know and i will gladly contact him. i have been told he's unreachable. besides, is your admirer saying that i haven't been critical of lampson on this forum?

taube: john once told me "We do not grade the bats we sell for obvious reasons." i assume this meant that if he were selling a bat, he wouldn't grade it. unless john lied to me?

gfc/historic/vintage/mastro/etc: have asked, no replies. sure, i'll buy the notion that mears/bushing gets criticized for things they've admitted to while others simply keep quiet. i suppose that's the risk you run when you admit to things.

anyway, i'm off to read some rudy fan club letters myself. i always enjoy the ones that start off "i never thought i'd feel this way about a complete stranger..."

rudy.

Rudy, I do not have a collection of game used item. I learned years ago, when my part time business that started around 1985 became my primary source of income starting around 1990 until present day today.

Back then I learned it is more fun for me to be willing to sell everything so I have something do to - Find another or at worst find something else to buy and sell. Though I have kept many items for personal reasons, they are not your reasons.

As for me being concerned about MEARS letters being hurt by your attack against their company has nothing to do with my future sales. I am not concerned for that reason, but you keep digging and maybe you'll figure out the angle that you so seek.

Sleep well, find more issues to attack me on personally since you do not like INTEGRITY - HONESTY - FULL DISCLOSURE - CUSTOMER RESPONSE in a major company.

You rather have them use another authenticator for their items. Other than MeiGray, what authenticator do you suggest? I already explained why MeiGray is not a reasonable alternative due to the fact that they will not look at every item. You are not in the business, even though I offered to start an authentication company with you a long, long time ago.

Then again, don't bother - MEARS is not going to change for you. Authentication is too expensive of a service to have everything authenticated elsewhere.

Here is an obvious question for you to explain why this authentication is acceptable but MEARS is not in your view:

How come Upper Deck Authenticated can have people autograph items and they give authentication for the items and they sell them on their web site? Shouldn't they have another company certify the items before they sell them?

Same question, insert: Steiner Sports (autographs and game used memorabilia)

Same question, insert: MeiGray (game used memorabilia)

[trsent]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

joel,

allow me to rephrase my question: if you weren't an ebay dealer who realizes profits from MEARS certs, would you be vehemently defending MEARS' policies in the same manner as you are now?

i realize no profits or loss of profits from MEARS. my opinion stems solely from my genuine interest in the hobby.

if you have the time, i'm dying to know what telling someone to "Go back to your basement with your bricks" means. it sounds like a great insult that i'd like to start using. up until now i've been using george costanza's "stuff your sorrys in a sack, mister" but telling someone to "go back to their basement with their bricks" is even better, once i figure out what it means.

rudy.

Rudy, am I friends with Troy Kinunen? Yes. Does Troy have my cell phone number? Yes. Did I miss two calls from Troy earlier today as my cell phone is on silent? Yes. Have I had breakfast with Troy? No. Have I had lunch with Troy? Yes. Have I had dinner with Troy? Yes. Have I sat in Troy's office discussing theory? Yes. Have I disagreed with Troy? Yes. (See my theory of auction houses who do not sign the MEARS Action House Contract Policy not being able to submit to MEARS debate) Does Troy ask me to post on this forum? No. I just believe in him, his company and his concept.

Does my belief that MEARS will be hurt by your arguments will hurt my personal business? Maybe, but I am not concerned about this theory as much as you attacking my friend's company and open disclosure policy.

If this attack was on a similar company I respect, say Game Used Universe, I would feel the same way and give the same return comments.

Sure, you have your fans and followers. People have your private email address? I don't, but people know they can email me if they wish to give me any views or concerns or just talk.

[jdr3]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

Joel,

From the inordinate amount of replies you have made in just 2 hours it is obvious your subconscious is racked with guilt because you know every rebuttal to your posts in this chain have been based in truth and fact. Me thinks thou dost protest too much. How many times in your life have you admitted to being wrong? I cannot remember one during your long and blathering tenure on this otherwise useful forum.

Jim Reed
Who could not care less what your grandfather looked like, although he bears a strong resemblence to Julius Rosenburg.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

How come Upper Deck Authenticated can have people autograph items and they give authentication for the items and they sell them on their web site? Shouldn't they have another company certify the items before they sell them?

Same question, insert: Steiner Sports (autographs and game used memorabilia)

Same question, insert: MeiGray (game used memorabilia)

1) upper deck: because upper deck representatives personally witness the autographs being signed.

2) steiner: because steiner goes into the clubhouse and personally collects the bats and jerseys.

3) meigray: because meigray personally tags each jersey before the game and then goes in and personally collects them after the game.

are troy and dave now personally collecting game-used items after the game? which one of them went into the browns locker room in 1962 to get that jersey from jim brown? i'm guessing it must've been bushing because troy hadn't been born yet. maybe it was miedema though?

rudy.

[trsent]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

1) upper deck: because upper deck representatives personally witness the autographs being signed.

2) steiner: because steiner goes into the clubhouse and personally collects the bats and jerseys.

3) meigray: because meigray personally tags each jersey before the game and then goes in and personally collects them after the game.

are troy and dave now personally collecting game-used items after the game? which one of them went into the browns locker room in 1962 to get that jersey from jim brown? i'm guessing it must've been bushing because troy hadn't been born yet. maybe it was miedema though?

rudy.

Rudy, wait -

Does Steiner certifiy New York Yankees jersey from the past that may have come from The Yankees, but they never saw worn?

Does MeiGray watch the tagged jersey get put on the players back and then taken off?

Even if the answer is "Yes" to both, it doesn't matter - How can they authenticate jersey and then sell them with their LOAs? Isn't this a conflict of interested? (I personally think both companies are fine, but it is a similar practice with no issues by Rudy)

D

[trsent]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

Joel,

From the inordinate amount of replies you have made in just 2 hours it is obvious your subconscious is racked with guilt because you know every rebuttal to your posts in this chain have been based in truth and fact. Me thinks thou dost protest too much. How many times in your life have you admitted to being wrong? I cannot remember one during your long and blathering tenure on this otherwise useful forum.

Jim Reed
Who could not care less what your grandfather looked like, although he bears a strong resemblence to Julius Rosenburg.

Jim, yes, both sides have valid points, I do not disagree with such. I just do not understand where the debate is going if MEARS admits they are committing a conflict of interest so they fully disclose such to the public.

I am about to leave for dinner now, I wanted to stay home to watch the Chicago Blackhawks game in Toronto. Great game, Hawks came back from 3-0 down to win 5-4 in overtime for their third win on the road in a row during their yearly circus road trip.

What is your line about my grandfather? Did I post his picture from the Chez Parie on here one day? Glad you are taking the time to read through my hundreds of posts to find that one. He died in 1982 and his last wife (my grandmother died before I was born) told me last night at dinner how she used to go to all sporting events with Grandpa in Chicago. I told he we would go to a hockey game before the end of the year. I am so excited to take one of my two remaining Grandmothers to a hockey game at 90! Aren't you excited?

[trsent]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

Joel,

From the inordinate amount of replies you have made in just 2 hours it is obvious your subconscious is racked with guilt because you know every rebuttal to your posts in this chain have been based in truth and fact. Me thinks thou dost protest too much. How many times in your life have you admitted to being wrong? I cannot remember one during your long and blathering tenure on this otherwise useful forum.

Jim Reed
Who could not care less what your grandfather looked like, although he bears a strong resemblence to Julius Rosenburg.

Jim, looking at the thread below:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=17809

It appears you like to pick on me and bait me and then brag about it.

Why this pattern?

By the way, the only thing I feel guilty about is that my wife is waiting to go out to dinner and I am wasting time being baited by you again so you can insult me, my tact and my integrity.

[Moustache Gang]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

Geez,

I know Troy too, and I have his phone number and by gosh Troy emailed me three times today while he was at the show in Chicago!!! And one of Troy's largest articles ever written on the MEARS website was about me.

Have I had lunch with Troy? No. Have I had dinner with Troy? No. But I did have lunch with former U.S. Department of Homeland Security Tom Ridge and I was nominated to a post on his homeland security panel. But that means jack squat. Just the same as has half of Joel's posts.

I too believe that MEARS is the best system that I have have ever observed. Do they have issues? Yes. Do I have problems with their scoring system? You bet I do and I have pointed them out on this website and on the MEARS website. I have serious issues when a person can slap a horrendously fake name, and fake numbers on a 1971 Oakland A's jersey and MEARS deems it game worn by Reggie Jackson. And by the way did I mention the jersey had an outline of the #4 on front and back before somebody slapped a #9 JACKSON on it??? Oh yes it was worn by Reggie because somebody stuck a 9 and name on the jersey. Fabulous assessment of this game used jersey used by a common A's player!!!


Rudy I have no bricks in my basement.

Mark

[jdr3]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

Excited, no. Nauseas, however, from you pathetic attempt to turn every post into some needlessly dramatic me against the world diatribe. All the violins in the world play for you and your grandmother and grandfather, and their needless place on this forum. It brought tears to my eyes how you will take her to a ball game. Please reinstate your self imposed exile. I love how everybody who supports you wants to be anonymous. Do you really expect anyone to believe this crap you throw out?

[joelsabi]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

--a company is in business to make money and if they limit their profits by just selling the hardwares that people have give them to auction they are limiting themselves.

--conflict of interests is difficult to avoid in a narrow business with very little quality options.

--full disclosure is the compromise of this imperfect market.

--more auction items in an auction means more interest for consumers and if auctioneers want to sell their own stuff why not. its their business.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

Rudy, wait -

Does Steiner certifiy New York Yankees jersey from the past that may have come from The Yankees, but they never saw worn?

Does MeiGray watch the tagged jersey get put on the players back and then taken off?

Even if the answer is "Yes" to both, it doesn't matter - How can they authenticate jersey and then sell them with their LOAs? Isn't this a conflict of interested? (I personally think both companies are fine, but it is a similar practice with no issues by Rudy)

D

joel

you're flailing. steiner's not an authenticator, they're a dealer. in their words, a "sports marketing firm". you're confusing someone who simply sells a jersey with someone who explicitly grades and authenticates a jersey and charges for the service of "authentication". when steiner sold their old yankees shirts, in many cases they didn't even know who wore them. there was no "authenticating" per se. bob malandro and sean mahoney wouldn't call themselves authenticators in a million years. on many shirts, malandro didn't even check the rosters. steiner's letters simply said "here's a #24 jersey. not sure who wore it. we got it from the yankees. enjoy". hardly an authentication. same deal with upper deck. what's to "authenticate" when you're literally watching jordan sign the photo in front of you? upper deck is a sports marketing firm as is steiner. neither are viewed as "authenticators". neither issue grades. meigray sells pieces that it collects directly after games and it also authenticates older collector-submitted pieces. meigray is both a dealer and an authenticator.
they don't "authenticate" the pieces they collect after games because there's nothing to authenticate. stick a unique ID on a jersey, give the jersey back to the player and have him use it, collect the jersey after he's used it and sell it. where's the authentication?
MEARS on the other hand is an authenticator (and dealer). MEARS' letters and corresponding worksheets are clear and obvious authentications. i've never heard anyone consider steiner or upper deck "authenticators". they just acquire items and resell them. no authentication. they do come with letters that state the item came from upper deck or steiner but that's it. they're simply letters of provenance, not authentications. the "LOA" term is extremely loose.

rudy.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

Can I officially ask for this p*ssing contest to be over?????? It's going nowhere, people!


Rudy: MEARS has a conflict of interest. You see it. MEARS sees it. We all see it. Even Joel sees it. WE GET IT!! However, with very few options out there for cross-examining items, and also the fact of handing money to a competitor to do a job that you can do as well or better must be galling, this situation may, unfortunately, be the most practical under current conditions. I do not think there are enough quality options out there to have a true checks-and-balances system in place like you (and the rest of us) would like to see. Perhaps most collectors think like I do: I'd rather have something that Bushing personally owned and authenticated himself than the same item looked at by Lampson (obviously), Grey Flannel, or the men behind the curtain at Mastro.

Joel: You love the MEARS gang and how they do business. You think they have the best system out there. WE GET IT!! That's why they are probably the most respected group today. But please listen to me: You are repeating yourself over and over. And over. Please, let it go!


I'm sure everyone who has read these threads this far is educated enough in the biz to see what the issues are, and have and will continue to use their wallets to "choose sides." But these threads have amounted to sniping back and forth and back and forth, and they aren't adding to the knowledge of anyone.

ADMIN: I THINK IT'S TIME TO LOCK THESE THREADS before it just gets more personal and angry.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[trsent]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

--a company is in business to make money and if they limit their profits by just selling the hardwares that people have give them to auction they are limiting themselves.

--conflict of interests is difficult to avoid in a narrow business with very little quality options.

--full disclosure is the compromise of this imperfect market.

--more auction items in an auction means more interest for consumers and if auctioneers want to sell their own stuff why not. its their business.

Thank you - The word "compromise" fits perfectly here.

Excited, no. Nauseas, however, from you pathetic attempt to turn every post into some needlessly dramatic me against the world diatribe. All the violins in the world play for you and your grandmother and grandfather, and their needless place on this forum. It brought tears to my eyes how you will take her to a ball game. Please reinstate your self imposed exile. I love how everybody who supports you wants to be anonymous. Do you really expect anyone to believe this crap you throw out?

Do you ever post anything but abusive posts?

Geez,

I know Troy too, and I have his phone number and by gosh Troy emailed me three times today while he was at the show in Chicago!!! And one of Troy's largest articles ever written on the MEARS website was about me.

Have I had lunch with Troy? No. Have I had dinner with Troy? No. But I did have lunch with former U.S. Department of Homeland Security Tom Ridge and I was nominated to a post on his homeland security panel. But that means jack squat. Just the same as has half of Joel's posts.

I too believe that MEARS is the best system that I have have ever observed. Do they have issues? Yes. Do I have problems with their scoring system? You bet I do and I have pointed them out on this website and on the MEARS website. I have serious issues when a person can slap a horrendously fake name, and fake numbers on a 1971 Oakland A's jersey and MEARS deems it game worn by Reggie Jackson. And by the way did I mention the jersey had an outline of the #4 on front and back before somebody slapped a #9 JACKSON on it??? Oh yes it was worn by Reggie because somebody stuck a 9 and name on the jersey. Fabulous assessment of this game used jersey used by a common A's player!!!


Rudy I have no bricks in my basement.

Mark

Mark, sorry if you misunderstood my intention. It was to let Rudy know that I am close with Troy Kinunen and I believe in his system. I am glad you are also in contact with Troy.

Can I officially ask for this p*ssing contest to be over?????? It's going nowhere, people!


Rudy: MEARS has a conflict of interest. You see it. MEARS sees it. We all see it. Even Joel sees it. WE GET IT!! However, with very few options out there for cross-examining items, and also the fact of handing money to a competitor to do a job that you can do as well or better must be galling, this situation may, unfortunately, be the most practical under current conditions. I do not think there are enough quality options out there to have a true checks-and-balances system in place like you (and the rest of us) would like to see. Perhaps most collectors think like I do: I'd rather have something that Bushing personally owned and authenticated himself than the same item looked at by Lampson (obviously), Grey Flannel, or the men behind the curtain at Mastro.

Joel: You love the MEARS gang and how they do business. You think they have the best system out there. WE GET IT!! That's why they are probably the most respected group today. But please listen to me: You are repeating yourself over and over. And over. Please, let it go!


I'm sure everyone who has read these threads this far is educated enough in the biz to see what the issues are, and have and will continue to use their wallets to "choose sides." But these threads have amounted to sniping back and forth and back and forth, and they aren't adding to the knowledge of anyone.

ADMIN: I THINK IT'S TIME TO LOCK THESE THREADS before it just gets more personal and angry.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Ken, very well said on all ends.

Finally, Rudy, the bricks in the basement is a comment about someone's past activites that is an inside comment. Sorry if you think it is more than that, but is it just a fun way to remind someone of their past when they attack my views.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Dave Grob and President Coolidge request your advice

Hello Everyone,

I just deleted a number of posts that were very off-topic and personal in nature. If you wish to contribute anything more to this thread please make sure it is constructive in nature and beneficial to the community.

Thanks in advance.