Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

[jdr3]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

I noticed the Chiefs helmet had the same sticker after I wrote the previous post. There goes that theory.

[aeneas01]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

Thank you! I thought the helmet looked much like the one he used in 73, but do not know how difficult it is not to scar the helmet itself when removing a sticker. One odd thing, the sticker itself looks like an add for Duke Ziebert's Restaurant, a prime Washington in the 70s. I will try to find the caricature in an old program to compare

yes, i would say it's definitely the same helmet - decals can removed without scarring by reconditioners. if the sticker turns out to be an ad for that restaurant, i wonder how the same sticker on the chiefs helmet can be explained? a chain operation with a store in kansas city? fwiw players have a long history of adding personal decals to their helmets - ken "the snake" stabler sported a yellow happy face on the front of his lid, above his facemask, when with the raiders!

Today, I got an email from the guy that sold me my Cowboys helmet: He wrote, in part the following:

I worked for a company called Medalist Gladiator in Leesburg, FL. I was the Controller for the company. I'm a CPA by trade.

When helmets were sent in for reconditioning, it usually went to another division of Medalist somewhere in Pennsylvania. I don't remember their name. We got some helmets for reconditioning from time to time. If the shell was bad, it would be destroyed to avoid it being used again. It was a liability issue. Product liability was a big reason alot of companies got out of the business. The upper end helmets had removable inserts for padding. The cheaper youth helmets had glue-in padding. Any other unsued parts were usually trashed...

Jim

i would say this is very consistent with the conversations i've had with reconditioning companies in the past.

Had a question as well, I seem to remember seeing this Alzado lid in an auction a while back - did you see it and if so, do you remember what it went for?

Thanks again!

Tom

i'm pretty certain this is the first time i've seen the "alzado" helmet listed...

I just got this Tom Randall Cowboys helmet and it says a whole lot about the character of the players who played back in the day. The helmet came with this email from the seller,

Back in the late 1970's I was the controller for a football helmet manufacturer in Florida. After the Super Bowl in 1979, we received a number of helmets from the Cowboys to refurbish and send back. It was determined that the Randall helmet needed to be replaced in it's entirety. I was able to take it home as a souviner. Unfortunately, that was the only Dallas item I had. Hope this helps fill in some of the history on this helmet. Enjoy.

that helmet is a real beauty - below is a shot of randall (#60), notice the extra thick/wide bumper indicating a gladiator helmet which is consistent with your lid. and here's a photo of an absolute beauty that sold at auction for an absolute song some time ago...







rob l, both-teams-played-hard, nyjetsfan14 and the rest of you guys - thanks for the kind words!

...

[helmets]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

Robert:

I was wondering why it was taking you so long to post about the Mastro auctions. Now that I see your post and know how much time and research you put into it, I wonder no longer. Great post as always.

I seem to have the same sentiments as you do on most. I think you increased the auction price on some. I may have to check my piggy bank for extra funds to cover the increase due to the "Aeneas01 premium"

Being a Packer fan and from Wisconsin, I am always interested in the Packer helmets. Yes, the Hornung did have a BD9 and chinstrap when it sold on HA, but I believe in the description of that auction that the mask and chinstrap were from a later period. I recall that anyways. Perhaps the new owner removed them as they were not "original" to the helmet.

Interesting story...
My father sold insurance in Wisconsin when I was growing up. - Employers Insurance of Wausau - later Wausau Insurance Companies. He was always bringing "stuff" home to me from his customers. He brought me home a Packer gamer when I was a kid. It had the suspension cut out of the helmet, but the rivets were still there - similar to a helmet lamp. I think the Packers did that for liability. It had a number on the rear - 20's, (24? 26? ) BD9 two bar, and the shell was cracked. I remember trying to wear it and the rivets hurt my head. I wore my Packer winter hat under it for "rivet protection." I had to cut the tassle off of the hat so the helmet sat right. That didn't work too well, so my father went to a fabric store and bought some foam rubber and tried to glue it into the helmet. The glue those days wasn't very good, and each time I would try and wear it, the padding would pull off. Well Santa went to Sears later that year and bought a Rawlings Air-Flo Packers for me, and the Packers Gamer was tossed into a closet. Needless to say the gamer was sold at a rummage sale when I was away at college. I remember seeing other Packer gamers growing up at flea markets, etc, and most had the suspensions removed - cut out. I think the team cut them out - faster and easier, but the reconditioners must have drilled out the rivets like the two on Mastro.

[jdr3]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

Thank you! I thought the helmet looked much like the one he used in 73, but do not know how difficult it is not to scar the helmet itself when removing a sticker. One odd thing, the sticker itself looks like an add for Duke Ziebert's Restaurant, a prime Washington in the 70s. I will try to find the caricature in an old program to compare

[aeneas01]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

jdr3: The Fischer is beautiful. There is a question about it being in Super Bowl VII, however. In 1972 his helmet had a sticker on back just to the left of the 7. Could this sticker have been easily removed?

kingjammy24: beyond the idea of the sticker being removed, the numbers in your photo are a considerable distance away from the center helmet stripes. (i'm sure i sound like an idiot there but i don't know what helmet folks call those things). on the mastro helmet, the numbers practically touch the stripes.

when i stated "...the (mastro) lot description should point out that fischer most likely wore this very lid in the 1972 super bowl" i didn't mean to imply that fischer's helmet was retired immediately after the 1972 super bowl, never to be worn again, and therefore the auction lid could be matched to super bowl game photos of fischer. in fact helmets aren't typically put on ice after a super bowl game - they are processed in the same manner as any other season including sent out for reconditioning (stripped, cleaned, repainted, etc.) and readied for the next season.

as far as fischer is concerned, he continued to sport his gladiator lid after the 1972 super bowl, through the 1974 season. as such his helmet was undoubtedly reconditioned after the super bowl and therefore couldn't be expected to match his his super bowl lid in terms of decal placement. does this make sense?

speaking of fischer's gladiator, a few more comments: a) this helmet was featured at the "helmet hut" website (top left photo) but included the back nape padding (circled) - apparently this padding has since been lost given that it's not included in the mastro auction. b) fischer's gladiator gamer was fitted with additional back chinstrap snaps (bottom right photo, circled) presumably intended for use with a four-point chinstrap. while this is pretty standard with today's defensive back helmets, it wasn't in the early 70s. anyway the auction helmet reflects these snaps, identically located when compared to photos of fischer, although the snaps are missing and only the holes remain. c) the top right photo is a nice shot of the inside of fischer's gladiator, taken during the national anthem of 1972 super bowl. d) the rear decal jdr3 referred to is very interesting and i knew i had seen such a decal before - so i dug around my photos and found it (bottom left corner), a 1972 photo of chiefs player. i very much doubt it's a reconditioning decal given that if it were you would expect to find the same sort of decal on the other helmets as well. so what is it, what does it signify? hmm...

btw, given that no mention about the super bowl was mentioned in the mastro auction, perhaps a lucky bidder can pick this up for a steal!



...

[kingjammy24]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

Robert,

The Fischer is beautiful. There is a question about it being in Super Bowl VII, however. In 1972 his helmet had a sticker on back just to the left of the 7. Could this sticker have been easily removed?

-Jim

jim

beyond the idea of the sticker being removed, the numbers in your photo are a considerable distance away from the center helmet stripes. (i'm sure i sound like an idiot there but i don't know what helmet folks call those things). on the mastro helmet, the numbers practically touch the stripes.

rudy.

[jdr3]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

Robert,

The Fischer is beautiful. There is a question about it being in Super Bowl VII, however. In 1972 his helmet had a sticker on back just to the left of the 7. Could this sticker have been easily removed?

-Jim

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

Robert, you wrote the following:

you would think that a beautiful gamer would be enough, it is for me. but it's amazing how few gamers not attributed any particular player (or to lesser players) ever hit the auction blocks. where are they? i guess it could be argued that because these helmets did not belong to well known players they were deemed worthless and simply tossed and/or destroyed many moons ago. and that there is a disproportionate amount of vintage gamers once belonging to the league's most famous on the market simply because they were deemed worth preserving and were not tossed and/or destroyed.


Today, I got an email from the guy that sold me my Cowboys helmet: He wrote, in part the following:

I worked for a company called Medalist Gladiator in Leesburg, FL. I was the Controller for the company. I'm a CPA by trade.

When helmets were sent in for reconditioning, it usually went to another division of Medalist somewhere in Pennsylvania. I don't remember their name. We got some helmets for reconditioning from time to time. If the shell was bad, it would be destroyed to avoid it being used again. It was a liability issue. Product liability was a big reason alot of companies got out of the business. The upper end helmets had removable inserts for padding. The cheaper youth helmets had glue-in padding. Any other unsued parts were usually trashed...

Jim

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

hey warren

i'm probably misinterpreting your statement here but i think the abundance of superstars/scarcity of commons in many niches has to do with folks recovering their costs in making these items up. i don't know what it would cost to make up a really convincing, top notch unitas helmet. i know if i were to make up a flawless early 90s ripken jersey, it'd probably cost me a few hundred. it wouldn't pay off to spend a few hundred to make up a jeffrey leonard shirt. if i spent a few hundred, i may as well go for the ripken in order to turn a good profit. plus, most of the big houses like mastro simply aren't interested in any "low dollar" items.

i'm surprised at how many extremely rare items manage to consistently show up, as opposed to seemingly more common items. you'd be surprised how easy it is to find a mantle jersey but if you're on the hunt for an andy pafko, you'll probably never find one. Heritage dug up babe ruth's 1933 all-star game shirt yet i can't find a john olerud jays jersey to save my life. it's crazy.

rudy.

You understood my point exactly! A jersey of a common player has more of a chance of being real. You've outlined all of the examples that give me this belief.

1,000,000 Lebrons can't be wrong! (another 900,000 Dwayne Wades).

[Rob L]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

Robert, well done. I don't collect football helmets, in fact, don't pay attention to football until the playoffs start. But I really enjoy reading your threads on the football helmets. Well thought out and incredibly informative. Keep up the good work!!!

[aeneas01]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

Amazing pics as well. They did a really nice job with these. One that intrigues me is this Jerry Rhome MacGregor clear shell. For one, I just saw it up on ebay, not too long ago: 64-66 Dallas....... Now, does anyone happen to have a picture of Jerry wearing this style helmet. I would love to see it. This helmet is unique in every way, and when I first saw the ebay auction I didn't think it was legit. However, now it seems to be? Jerry Rhome Circa 1966 Dallas Cowboys Game Used Helmet

the cowboys macgregor clear shell you saw on ebay is not the one currently in the mastro auction - btw the one on ebay sold for $530 and, fwiw, it was autographed by staubach. i have seen three of these cowboys clear shell macs hit the maket in the last couple of years, all identical 100mh lids with dungard dg105 facemasks.

the thing collectors need to keep in mind is that "back in the day" macgregor offered these helmets, nfl dressed, to the public through their catalogs and through sporting goods stores. their target audience was young boys and these helmets are out there. often times the helmets were packaged with facemasks including dg105 dungards - many were purchased for playing around in at the park and others were purchased for autographs. so you have to be careful when scooping up clearshell macs...

here are some shots from a 1967 macgregor catalog - the two kids can be seen wearing a falcons helmet and a colts helmet. you could pick up a two-bar dungard for $7.00 at the time or for $4.95 if you were buying for a team. also note that 1967 was before the 100mh clear shell was offered with removable "pegged" padding - padding was permanently sewn to the shell.




here are a few shots of some macs that have sold during the last couple of years - a colts helmet with the same dungard (white), the cowboys helmet that just sold on ebay, a youth lid with the same type of dungard and a falcons helmet. there's an interesting story to the falcon's helmet - a woman listed it on ebay as a helmet that her husband purchased as a boy, a helmet he used for pop warner and backyard football. an ebay crook (vintageksusports) scooped it up and relisted it as a game worn falcon's helmet that he had acquired, along with other nfl gamers, from an old sports bar in texas. beautiful. btw i'm not saying that every mac clear shell with a dungard that comes down the road is a youth lid purchased from a catalog nor am i saying that all of the macs pictured below are not authentic gamers - i'm just saying that these lids were also sold to kids and never saw the inside of an nfl locker room.

Robert, you mentioned goofy wording on some of these item descriptions, well, ya gotta love this regarding the Colt's logo.

Pertaining to the Johnny Unitas Late 1960s Baltimore Colts Signed Game Used Helmet (HOF)

"The gamer features the athlete's trademark, single-blue center stripe, as well as the club's famous horseshoe side logos in deliciously flavored minimal mil depth with proper color hue."

ha ha ha you beat me to it! i wanted to include that embarrassing quote when i posted about the lids but for the life of me could not remember which helmet it was attributed to - i went back and looked through all of the helmet lots a couple of times to find it but just couldn't locate it again! "deliciously"? can you believe it??? and btw i agree 100% - mastro did a very, very nice job with the photos.

BTPH - you are so right - helmets don't need to be a Namath or Unitas. I just got this Tom Randall Cowboys helmet and it says a whole lot about the character of the players who played back in the day.

you would think that a beautiful gamer would be enough, it is for me. but it's amazing how few gamers not attributed any particular player (or to lesser players) ever hit the auction blocks. where are they? i guess it could be argued that because these helmets did not belong to well known players they were deemed worthless and simply tossed and/or destroyed many moons ago. and that there is a disproportionate amount of vintage gamers once belonging to the league's most famous on the market simply because they were deemed worth preserving and were not tossed and/or destroyed.

i wish that was the case - unfortunately it seems to me that there is a disproportionate number of big name gamers out there simply because it is much more profitable to turn a no-name gamer into a hall of fame gamer without much difficulty given that most collectors are not at all up to speed on football helmets. but thanks to the net that is changing.

.....

[princip]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

Robert, you mentioned goofy wording on some of these item descriptions, well, ya gotta love this regarding the Colt's logo.

Pertaining to the Johnny Unitas Late 1960s Baltimore Colts Signed Game Used Helmet (HOF)

"The gamer features the athlete's trademark, single-blue center stripe, as well as the club's famous horseshoe side logos in deliciously flavored minimal mil depth with proper color hue."

[kingjammy24]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

What's wrong with common players? These guys need to realize that every helmet doesn't need to be a Namath or Unitas.

hey warren

i'm probably misinterpreting your statement here but i think the abundance of superstars/scarcity of commons in many niches has to do with folks recovering their costs in making these items up. i don't know what it would cost to make up a really convincing, top notch unitas helmet. i know if i were to make up a flawless early 90s ripken jersey, it'd probably cost me a few hundred. it wouldn't pay off to spend a few hundred to make up a jeffrey leonard shirt. if i spent a few hundred, i may as well go for the ripken in order to turn a good profit. plus, most of the big houses like mastro simply aren't interested in any "low dollar" items.

i'm surprised at how many extremely rare items manage to consistently show up, as opposed to seemingly more common items. you'd be surprised how easy it is to find a mantle jersey but if you're on the hunt for an andy pafko, you'll probably never find one. Heritage dug up babe ruth's 1933 all-star game shirt yet i can't find a john olerud jays jersey to save my life. it's crazy.

rudy.

[princip]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

Amazing pics as well. They did a really nice job with these.

One that intrigues me is this Jerry Rhome MacGregor clear shell. For one, I just saw it up on ebay, not too long ago: 64-66 Dallas.......

Now, does anyone happen to have a picture of Jerry wearing this style helmet. I would love to see it. This helmet is unique in every way, and when I first saw the ebay auction I didn't think it was legit. However, now it seems to be?

Jerry Rhome Circa 1966 Dallas Cowboys Game Used Helmet

[nyjetsfan14]

Re: Mastro - Vintage GU Football Helmets

I agree with the rest of the members and while, like most, I have expressed my gratitude on several other ocassions many thanks again for another truly great read. What I like most is that you not only do this research and provide the details for your own personal use but you obviosuly have a strong desire to assist/enlighten others by sharing thus making this a better and more enjoyable hobby. I know I am not the only one who looks forward to your posts, I always learn something new and look at pieces in a different light, for that I am very appreciative!