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I thought some might be interested by the fact that MEARS has responded to my issues with their A5 grade. Here is a recap of the A5 issues:
MEARS' reply (edited by myself solely for the sake of brevity. The full piece is available on their forum):
"Dave G: Although this is not a new phenomenon in the hobby as we have always wrestled with both salesman samples and shirts made for retail, it has made authenticating and purchasing a more precarious proposition. For collectors, shirts are easier to obtain because of the volume, but then this naturally begs the question are all of these actually game worn? Same set of circumstances, but a different scope of problem for authenticators. When shirts for play are often the same as those for retail or promotion, what then become the discriminating factors between good and bad? Many collectors have viewed such aspects of additional tagging such as “extra length†to mean additional assurance that the item was in fact a gamer. This is a false assumption at best. In many cases the shirts are physically indiscernible from the ones worn by the players in the field."
If you genuinely believe that retail jerseys are indiscernable from gamers then I would offer you're in the wrong profession. There is little doubt in my mind that I could send a retail jersey to Steinmetz, Wolf or Weimerskirch and have them come back and tell me it's a retail jersey. There are a myriad of differences between the two, as Troy himself states below, beyond any "extra length tagging". If you're unaware of these differences, then I'm genuinely dismayed by this lack of expertise. Suffice it to say, retail jerseys are in fact discernable from gamers and many authenticators seem to be consistently able to discern the two.
"Dave G: The challenge for both collectors and authenticators is that more attention needs to focus on evaluating wear and provenance than on manufacturer characteristics."
God I hope not. Wear can be faked far more easily than manufacturer characteristics. A 7 yr year old with some finegrit sandpaper can create pilling much more easily than someone can seamlessly sew in a legit wash tag or flag tag. Most gamers don't have genuine provenance so that's out. (Saying you bought the jersey from Bob on Ebay doesn't qualify as genuine provenance). All aspects of a jersey need to be equally and substantially evaluated. Of course, this entirely depends on the authenticator being acutely aware of all of the manufacturer subleties, which I'm starting to think may be overly hopeful.
"Dave G: In the case of looking at game used wear; both the dealer and collector need to consider such factors as position played as well as surface. Grass stains on a home uniform for a player whose team plays on Astroturf would call a jerseys into question."
When was the last time you saw legit grass stains on a jersey? Such stains have almost always been washed out. Where are you finding unwashed jerseys? Never mind about manufacturer characteristics which are present on every single jersey, relatively consistent, unique to gamers, and can even be used to date the jersey. Instead pay attention to grass stains which you'll almost never see. If you see grass stains on a jersey, I'd be genuinely questioning whether or not they're legit given how unbelievably difficult it is to obtain an unwashed jersey.
"Troy: All of the below text is examined and MUST be present to be awarded the grade of the A5. This includes tagging, lettering, numbering, size, patches, memorial bands, and other items that are most often and almost exclusively associated with game issued/game worn jerseys."
Proper lettering, numbering, size, patches, bands, etc are not exclusively associated with gamers. Tons of retail jerseys are properly lettered, numbered, and patched. If you really believe that only legit gamers have proper lettering, numbering, and patches then you've likely been taken more than you may realize.
As for tagging, you've got one piece of the puzzle there but if you believe tagging is essential (which I agree that it is) then why did MEARS award a 1992 Fisk in the current Mastro auction an A10 when in fact it is not only devoid of the typical team tagging but also includes retail neck tags?
"Troy: In no instances has MEARS ever issued the grade of an A5 for what is referred to in the industry as a retail jersey. ( a retail jersey most often does not include all of the traits of a game issued jersey)"
How can MEARS possibly know they've never given a retail jersey an A5 when Dave Grob has said that retail jerseys and gamers are "physically indiscernable"? Troy, you're completely right in saying that a retail jersey does not include all of the traits of a gamer. Please inform Dave Grob of that fact as he feels that there are no differences between the two and is thus forced to rely on some pilling and provenance. Dave says they're indiscernable, you say they're different. At least I agree with one of you.
"Troy: In almost all cases, these jerseys are missing some of the key identifying manufacturing characteristics that are found on team issued/game issued/ or game worn items only. Again, in almost all cases, there are some traits that distinguish a retail jersey from a game issued/worn item."
I couldn't agree more Troy. You've hit the nail on the head. Please inform Dave of your opinion that retail jerseys and gamers are different. Apparently, he feels they're identical which is a frightening scenario.
Finally here is the real answer:
"Troy: For clarification, the phrase in our criteria, ...may have been made for retail or promotion.. only applies and is awarded the A5 grade, when , after examination, all of the other manufacturing characteristics have been found to be present that must be present on a game issued/worn jersey."
If a jersey has been found to have "all of the manufacturing characteristics of a game-issued jersey" then why not call it a game-issued jersey?!
"Troy: The reason for the phrase to be included in our A5 defintion is in the case of a team's own auctions or charitities that may make game issued jerseys made available to the public. Therefore, a properly tagged jersey (team issued) may be offered for retail and promotion, and in this case, would be awarded the grade of an A5."
Troy, earlier you stated that your "understanding of a retail jersey is one that was made to be worn by fans". Here you state that you're calling a team-issued jersey a retail jersey because it may have been offered by the team via an auction or promotion. Follow your original idea; team-issued jerseys are not made to be worn by fans, therefore they are not retail jerseys. Whether they're offered by a team via auctions or charities is completely irrelevant. Such team-issued jerseys remain exactly that: team-issued. Retail jerseys are those not offered by a team. Just take the word retail out completely and call it what it is - a game-issued jersey. Calling a game-issued jersey a retail jersey is false and misleading. This is similar to the "photomatching" debacle where MEARS would state that jerseys were photomatched when they were in fact stylematched. Of course, this issue of semantics is a far cry from Dave Grob's explanation that the reason the A5 includes "retail jerseys" is because they're "physically indiscernable" from gamers. Troy, kudos for admitting the obvious that they are indeed different. Now all that's required is an authenticator who knows how to tell the differences without relying on grass stains and a letter from an athlete with a failing memory.
"Troy: Again, the A5 jersey is recognized as a jersey that is ready for game action and the amount of wear/use is measured".
Excellent, then don't call it a retail jersey because retail jerseys aren't made for game action. As you said, they're made for fans. Problem solved.
Rudy.
MEARS' reply (edited by myself solely for the sake of brevity. The full piece is available on their forum):
"Dave G: Although this is not a new phenomenon in the hobby as we have always wrestled with both salesman samples and shirts made for retail, it has made authenticating and purchasing a more precarious proposition. For collectors, shirts are easier to obtain because of the volume, but then this naturally begs the question are all of these actually game worn? Same set of circumstances, but a different scope of problem for authenticators. When shirts for play are often the same as those for retail or promotion, what then become the discriminating factors between good and bad? Many collectors have viewed such aspects of additional tagging such as “extra length†to mean additional assurance that the item was in fact a gamer. This is a false assumption at best. In many cases the shirts are physically indiscernible from the ones worn by the players in the field."
If you genuinely believe that retail jerseys are indiscernable from gamers then I would offer you're in the wrong profession. There is little doubt in my mind that I could send a retail jersey to Steinmetz, Wolf or Weimerskirch and have them come back and tell me it's a retail jersey. There are a myriad of differences between the two, as Troy himself states below, beyond any "extra length tagging". If you're unaware of these differences, then I'm genuinely dismayed by this lack of expertise. Suffice it to say, retail jerseys are in fact discernable from gamers and many authenticators seem to be consistently able to discern the two.
"Dave G: The challenge for both collectors and authenticators is that more attention needs to focus on evaluating wear and provenance than on manufacturer characteristics."
God I hope not. Wear can be faked far more easily than manufacturer characteristics. A 7 yr year old with some finegrit sandpaper can create pilling much more easily than someone can seamlessly sew in a legit wash tag or flag tag. Most gamers don't have genuine provenance so that's out. (Saying you bought the jersey from Bob on Ebay doesn't qualify as genuine provenance). All aspects of a jersey need to be equally and substantially evaluated. Of course, this entirely depends on the authenticator being acutely aware of all of the manufacturer subleties, which I'm starting to think may be overly hopeful.
"Dave G: In the case of looking at game used wear; both the dealer and collector need to consider such factors as position played as well as surface. Grass stains on a home uniform for a player whose team plays on Astroturf would call a jerseys into question."
When was the last time you saw legit grass stains on a jersey? Such stains have almost always been washed out. Where are you finding unwashed jerseys? Never mind about manufacturer characteristics which are present on every single jersey, relatively consistent, unique to gamers, and can even be used to date the jersey. Instead pay attention to grass stains which you'll almost never see. If you see grass stains on a jersey, I'd be genuinely questioning whether or not they're legit given how unbelievably difficult it is to obtain an unwashed jersey.
"Troy: All of the below text is examined and MUST be present to be awarded the grade of the A5. This includes tagging, lettering, numbering, size, patches, memorial bands, and other items that are most often and almost exclusively associated with game issued/game worn jerseys."
Proper lettering, numbering, size, patches, bands, etc are not exclusively associated with gamers. Tons of retail jerseys are properly lettered, numbered, and patched. If you really believe that only legit gamers have proper lettering, numbering, and patches then you've likely been taken more than you may realize.
As for tagging, you've got one piece of the puzzle there but if you believe tagging is essential (which I agree that it is) then why did MEARS award a 1992 Fisk in the current Mastro auction an A10 when in fact it is not only devoid of the typical team tagging but also includes retail neck tags?
"Troy: In no instances has MEARS ever issued the grade of an A5 for what is referred to in the industry as a retail jersey. ( a retail jersey most often does not include all of the traits of a game issued jersey)"
How can MEARS possibly know they've never given a retail jersey an A5 when Dave Grob has said that retail jerseys and gamers are "physically indiscernable"? Troy, you're completely right in saying that a retail jersey does not include all of the traits of a gamer. Please inform Dave Grob of that fact as he feels that there are no differences between the two and is thus forced to rely on some pilling and provenance. Dave says they're indiscernable, you say they're different. At least I agree with one of you.
"Troy: In almost all cases, these jerseys are missing some of the key identifying manufacturing characteristics that are found on team issued/game issued/ or game worn items only. Again, in almost all cases, there are some traits that distinguish a retail jersey from a game issued/worn item."
I couldn't agree more Troy. You've hit the nail on the head. Please inform Dave of your opinion that retail jerseys and gamers are different. Apparently, he feels they're identical which is a frightening scenario.
Finally here is the real answer:
"Troy: For clarification, the phrase in our criteria, ...may have been made for retail or promotion.. only applies and is awarded the A5 grade, when , after examination, all of the other manufacturing characteristics have been found to be present that must be present on a game issued/worn jersey."
If a jersey has been found to have "all of the manufacturing characteristics of a game-issued jersey" then why not call it a game-issued jersey?!
"Troy: The reason for the phrase to be included in our A5 defintion is in the case of a team's own auctions or charitities that may make game issued jerseys made available to the public. Therefore, a properly tagged jersey (team issued) may be offered for retail and promotion, and in this case, would be awarded the grade of an A5."
Troy, earlier you stated that your "understanding of a retail jersey is one that was made to be worn by fans". Here you state that you're calling a team-issued jersey a retail jersey because it may have been offered by the team via an auction or promotion. Follow your original idea; team-issued jerseys are not made to be worn by fans, therefore they are not retail jerseys. Whether they're offered by a team via auctions or charities is completely irrelevant. Such team-issued jerseys remain exactly that: team-issued. Retail jerseys are those not offered by a team. Just take the word retail out completely and call it what it is - a game-issued jersey. Calling a game-issued jersey a retail jersey is false and misleading. This is similar to the "photomatching" debacle where MEARS would state that jerseys were photomatched when they were in fact stylematched. Of course, this issue of semantics is a far cry from Dave Grob's explanation that the reason the A5 includes "retail jerseys" is because they're "physically indiscernable" from gamers. Troy, kudos for admitting the obvious that they are indeed different. Now all that's required is an authenticator who knows how to tell the differences without relying on grass stains and a letter from an athlete with a failing memory.
"Troy: Again, the A5 jersey is recognized as a jersey that is ready for game action and the amount of wear/use is measured".
Excellent, then don't call it a retail jersey because retail jerseys aren't made for game action. As you said, they're made for fans. Problem solved.
Rudy.
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