Hunt - Gene Upshaw GU Helmet?

[aeneas01]

hunt currently has listed what is said to be a gene upshaw game used helmet - at least that is my understanding given hunt's lot description:

"Gene Upshaw Oakland Raiders professional model football helmet c.1970s. Battle-worn Raiders helmet with classic "Raiders" logo decals on both side panels..."

if hunt is indeed presenting this lid as one of upshaw's gamers, i would very much like to know who authenticated the helmet and/or if hunt spent any time independently confirming the claim. the problem with the helmet hunt has listed is that it's a late 70s / early 80s riddell cell helmet which is not at all consistent with the types of helmets upshaw wore throughout his career. in fact upshaw was famous for sporting one of the coolest, meanest, rarest and most unique lids around for a large part of his career - an externally padded macgregor 100mh clearshel. further, as far as i can tell, upshaw never wore a post-suspension riddell helmet at any point in his career. if hunt has any photo evidence proving the contrary i would certainly like to see it.

another odd thing about the listed helmet is that it appears that the internal padding has been completely removed from the shell yet no mention of this is made in the lot description - i say this because the peg holes used to attach the padding to shell appear to be vacant.

anyway there's quite a large amount of photos and film footage of upshaw out there and none show him sporting a riddell cell helmet - at least none that i can find. in fact it appears that upshaw wore three types of helmets during his career as follows:

1967 (rookie year) - 1970: riddell rk suspension
1971 - 1977: externally padded macgregor 100mh clearshell
1977 - 1981 (final season): bike

note: it seems that upshaw switched from his clearshell to a bike during the course of the 1977 season. here are some photos of upshaw covering each of his 15 years in the nfl - no riddell cell helmet in sight....




here's the hunt auction:

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=37&lot_num=396&lot_qual=&url_referer=search.cfm

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[earlywynnfan]

Re: Hunt - Gene Upshaw GU Helmet?

Yay! Another Aeneas01 posting!

Too bad I have no idea what he's talking about.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[princip]

Re: Hunt - Gene Upshaw GU Helmet?

Crazy thing is, I never realized Upshaw wore a padded clear shell. Truly unique.

[beantown]

Re: Hunt - Gene Upshaw GU Helmet?

hunt currently has listed what is said to be a gene upshaw game used helmet - at least that is my understanding given hunt's lot description:

"Gene Upshaw Oakland Raiders professional model football helmet c.1970s. Battle-worn Raiders helmet with classic "Raiders" logo decals on both side panels..."

if hunt is indeed presenting this lid as one of upshaw's gamers, i would very much like to know who authenticated the helmet and/or if hunt spent any time independently confirming the claim. the problem with the helmet hunt has listed is that it's a late 70s / early 80s riddell cell helmet which is not at all consistent with the types of helmets upshaw wore throughout his career. in fact upshaw was famous for sporting one of the coolest, meanest, rarest and most unique lids around for a large part of his career - an externally padded macgregor 100mh clearshel. further, as far as i can tell, upshaw never wore a post-suspension riddell helmet at any point in his career. if hunt has any photo evidence proving the contrary i would certainly like to see it.

another odd thing about the listed helmet is that it appears that the internal padding has been completely removed from the shell yet no mention of this is made in the lot description - i say this because the peg holes used to attach the padding to shell appear to be vacant.

anyway there's quite a large amount of photos and film footage of upshaw out there and none show him sporting a riddell cell helmet - at least none that i can find. in fact it appears that upshaw wore three types of helmets during his career as follows:

1967 (rookie year) - 1970: riddell rk suspension
1971 - 1977: externally padded macgregor 100mh clearshell
1977 - 1981 (final season): bike

note: it seems that upshaw switched from his clearshell to a bike during the course of the 1977 season. here are some photos of upshaw covering each of his 15 years in the nfl - no riddell cell helmet in sight....




here's the hunt auction:

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=37&lot_num=396&lot_qual=&url_referer=search.cfm

...

Far from a helmet expert...but the clips don't appear original, nor do the jaw pads...

[aeneas01]

Re: Hunt - Gene Upshaw GU Helmet?

Yay! Another Aeneas01 posting!

Too bad I have no idea what he's talking about.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

in a nutshell - despite hunt's claims, this is not an upshaw gamer. the helmet was most likely manufactured after upshaw retired in 1981, the facemask certainly was. given the fact the lot description claims that the helmet "retains it's original full facemask...", you really have to wonder what went into authenticating this thing.

bottom line - by adding the rear decals to the helmet, number "63", someone has clearly attempted to make this helmet appear to be an upshaw gamer. the question is: did someone simply put together a nice looking, albeit wrong era, reproduction without ever intending it to find its way to auction as an authentic gamer (i.e. an "honest" mistake) or has someone put this reproduction together for the sole purpose of fooling a buyer into believing it is indeed an upshaw gamer?

whatever the case, hunt should pull this thing or rewrite the lot to description making it clear that it is a reproduction...

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[aeneas01]

Re: Hunt - Gene Upshaw GU Helmet?

Far from a helmet expert...but the clips don't appear original, nor do the jaw pads...

it's not uncommon for the original facemask clips and/or jaw pads to be replaced when it comes to vintage football helmets sold at auction - it's something most helmet collectors are aware of and usually have no problem with (imo)...

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[kingjammy24]

Re: Hunt - Gene Upshaw GU Helmet?

i noticed that hunt still has the helmet listed. any updates? ...

rudy.

[aeneas01]

Re: Hunt - Gene Upshaw GU Helmet?

i noticed that hunt still has the helmet listed. any updates? ...

rudy.

last monday david hunt dropped me an email to say that he would check into the issues i had with the helmet and pull it or amend the description if hunt felt my issues had any merit. as of today the helmet is no longer listed, it was pulled. not sure if hunt plans to relist the helmet with a different description but if they do i'm not sure what they could say about the lid that would sound plausible - i mean the bottom line is someone clearly and intentionally put this helmet together in a manner that would lead someone to believe that it was an upshaw gamer. the question is whether or not this was done to intentionally fool collectors.

anyway i applaud hunt for yanking such an obviously questionable item. but by the same token i continue to wonder how this sort of thing continues to happen. when i responded to dave's email i asked him if hunt had checked this lid out or if it was checked out by an independent authenticator. i also asked dave if was hunt's policy to take an item hunt at face value if it happened to be accompanied by an coa (from lampson, mears, etc.). further, i have to wonder how much weight hunt gives to the seller's story of provenance. hopefully dave will respond to these questions when he gets a chance...

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[jhunt28]

Re: Hunt - Gene Upshaw GU Helmet?

I realize we have many helmet experts on this site, but I just thought I'd post something that I recently saw regarding this(an) Upshaw helmet. I was watching Real Sports with Bryant Gumble on HBO, and they had a piece on the new NFLPA rep, DeMaurice Smith. On a side note, it's a great story about this guy who never played college or pro football, but the players have all voted to represent him. Now, back to the reason for the post...Andrea Kremer is walking with Smith through the NFLPA offices. They stop at a Raiders helmet in the lobby which is encased in glass...and Smith stops in respect to honor the man who's torch had been passed to him. It was Gene Upshaw's Raiders helmet, and the comment that made me think of this helmet was the following, and I will paraphrase: "This helmet enclosed in glass is the helmet that Gene wore for each of his 15 seasons in the NFL". Obviously I haven't done research on every style helmet he wore, but the experts on this site have. I know it was talked about that he went from a clear shell to a different shell, but wasn't sure if the experts had conclusive evidence?? If not, this statement was very interesting in my opinion. Just thought I would share that story and comment, and I'm sure HBO will be showing re-runs for those to watch themselves.

[Mr.3000]

Re: Hunt - Gene Upshaw GU Helmet?

I realize we have many helmet experts on this site, but I just thought I'd post something that I recently saw regarding this(an) Upshaw helmet. I was watching Real Sports with Bryant Gumble on HBO, and they had a piece on the new NFLPA rep, DeMaurice Smith. On a side note, it's a great story about this guy who never played college or pro football, but the players have all voted to represent him. Now, back to the reason for the post...Andrea Kremer is walking with Smith through the NFLPA offices. They stop at a Raiders helmet in the lobby which is encased in glass...and Smith stops in respect to honor the man who's torch had been passed to him. It was Gene Upshaw's Raiders helmet, and the comment that made me think of this helmet was the following, and I will paraphrase: "This helmet enclosed in glass is the helmet that Gene wore for each of his 15 seasons in the NFL". Obviously I haven't done research on every style helmet he wore, but the experts on this site have. I know it was talked about that he went from a clear shell to a different shell, but wasn't sure if the experts had conclusive evidence?? If not, this statement was very interesting in my opinion. Just thought I would share that story and comment, and I'm sure HBO will be showing re-runs for those to watch themselves.

You beat me to it by a few minutes. I was just about to post this very same thing. I watched the same show and they did claim that Upshaw wore only 1 helmet his entire career.