Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

[aeneas01]

this seems to be a very nice jim marshall collection... here's a look at the helmet (left) compared to a mid '70s game photo of jm. marshall switched to a wildcat bumper in 1975, about the same time the horn decals began appearing above the suspension rivets rather than below. is this a photo match? the lifting area of the decal, the worn facemask, non-painted jaw pad rivets, etc.? fwiw the facemask clips and chinstrap appear to replacements.



whatever the case, the ha helmet does not appear to be the last helmet marshall wore -the photo on the left is from 1978 and the photo on the right is a 1979 shot of marshall holding his helmet in the locker room after the final game of his career - note that the jaw pad rivets are painted in both photos, unlike the auction helmet...



here's a look at a 1975 game ball that's also included in the auction (right) compared to a 1979 rashad game ball...



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[spartakid]

Re: Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

I would probably say not a photomatch because the helmet in the pic has a large red mark in on the white part of the decal, and the other one does not. The mark looks relatively large, and not something that would fade or rub off. My two cents, Ricardo

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

Helmets could be cleaned and marks removed and masks can be switched so I'm going with the painted vs non-painted jaw-pad rivets.

Jim

[jonincleve]

Re: Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

look at the middle bar of the facemask, there is a dent and a red dot to the right. it looks similar to the game photo. there is a shadow on what looks like a dot. would need photo shop to check. just looking at the photos, no financial interest in the helmet buying or selling.

take care
john

[princip]

Re: Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

look at the middle bar of the facemask, there is a dent and a red dot to the right. it looks similar to the game photo. there is a shadow on what looks like a dot. would need photo shop to check. just looking at the photos, no financial interest in the helmet buying or selling.

take care
john

Good eye! That is telling. Definitely, the same helmet in my opinion.

[spartakid]

Re: Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

I didn't see that, you're probably right with that red mark on the mask.

[aeneas01]

Re: Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

look at the middle bar of the facemask, there is a dent and a red dot to the right. it looks similar to the game photo. there is a shadow on what looks like a dot. would need photo shop to check. just looking at the photos, no financial interest in the helmet buying or selling.

the red dot (or green dot) was typical of schutt facemasks during that era, even the dot size and location were often very similar - so that alone wouldn't offer much imho. however the side scrape/dent you mentioned is very compelling...



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[jonincleve]

Re: Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

robert, glad i could help out on one of your helmets posts. i always enjoy reading your posts. sorry about the dot, didn't know this was common. best i could tell you about this helmet is that it is purple

take care
john

[princip]

Re: Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

Do you think HA would be better off breaking up this lot(make more money)?

[Vikingshelmetguy]

Re: Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

As my game used collection focuses exclusively and only on game used Minnesota Vikings helmets, in my eyes this Jim Marshall helmet is stunning.... First because it is Jim Marshall's helmet (a Minnesota Vikings Purple People Eater legend), and also because it has suspension webbing. For me, the facemask dent/scrape as identified by Jonincleve and Aeneas01 really seems to clinch the deal (an extremely convincing photo match). I agree too that the lifting area on the top edge of the decal is also quite consistent. Based on alot of Vikings helmets I have seen, I know that Vikings equipment guys often wiped/scrubbed down marks/dirt off of the decals, and/or replaced the horn decals entirely (thus possibly explaining why the horn on this helmet does not have the red scrape on the horn as displayed in the photo). I'd be very curious to see further photos of the inside of the helmet, both to see the date-codes on the inner shell of the helmet and on the warranty sticker, and I'd also love to see the orange tape ID number.... In trying to determine the date of this helmet, I'll start with Aeneas01's helpful info that Marshall switched to a wildcat bumper in 1975, about the same time the Vikings horn decals began appearing above the suspension rivets rather than below. I am nowhere near the expert like Aeneas01, but I can tell you that I own and have have seen some 1975 game used Vikings helmets, and all of the 1975 Vikings game helmets I have seen in person have all had navy blue inner shells that are painted purple on the outside (which is how the Vikings did their helmets for several years in the early 70's). The HA photos (by the way, I LOVE the Liquid Pixels Pan and Zoom feature!) shows the inside shell of this Marshall helmet to be impregnated purple (and not a blue inner shell painted purple on the outside). At the same time, the right back side of the helmet has the "Kra-Lite II" stamp that I think was affixed by Riddell on helmets manufactured up through 1976 (see Mike Princip's www.greenglare.com site for in depth analysis/studies of Seattle Seahawks 1976 inaugural year helmets which consistently have the "Kra-Lite II" stamp). I am hoping that Aeneas01 can chime in to let us all know what year Riddell discontinued the "Kra-Lite II" stamping on the back of their helmets. Anyhow, with the evidence that the helmet has a purple inner shell (post 1975) and the "Kra-Lite II stamping, my guess is that this helmet was manufactured in 1976 and probably worn in 1976 and/or 1977. Notice too the suspension webbing is not as dirty (cleaner white) around the crown of the suspension webbing, and the cleaner white suspension area is round in its shape, which suggests to me that at one time there was likely one of those round grey-colored rubber suspension caps installed inside the helmet. I have a Vikings book with a photo of Marshall's locker from the mid-70's, and the inside of his suspension helmet in that photo has a round grey-colored rubbers suspension cap. Anyhow, this helmet is indeed incredible.

[aeneas01]

Re: Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

As my game used collection focuses exclusively and only on game used Minnesota Vikings helmets, in my eyes this Jim Marshall helmet is stunning.... First because it is Jim Marshall's helmet (a Minnesota Vikings Purple People Eater legend), and also because it has suspension webbing. For me, the facemask dent/scrape as identified by Jonincleve and Aeneas01 really seems to clinch the deal (an extremely convincing photo match). I agree too that the lifting area on the top edge of the decal is also quite consistent. Based on alot of Vikings helmets I have seen, I know that Vikings equipment guys often wiped/scrubbed down marks/dirt off of the decals, and/or replaced the horn decals entirely (thus possibly explaining why the horn on this helmet does not have the red scrape on the horn as displayed in the photo). I'd be very curious to see further photos of the inside of the helmet, both to see the date-codes on the inner shell of the helmet and on the warranty sticker, and I'd also love to see the orange tape ID number.... In trying to determine the date of this helmet, I'll start with Aeneas01's helpful info that Marshall switched to a wildcat bumper in 1975, about the same time the Vikings horn decals began appearing above the suspension rivets rather than below. I am nowhere near the expert like Aeneas01, but I can tell you that I own and have have seen some 1975 game used Vikings helmets, and all of the 1975 Vikings game helmets I have seen in person have all had navy blue inner shells that are painted purple on the outside (which is how the Vikings did their helmets for several years in the early 70's). The HA photos (by the way, I LOVE the Liquid Pixels Pan and Zoom feature!) shows the inside shell of this Marshall helmet to be impregnated purple (and not a blue inner shell painted purple on the outside). At the same time, the right back side of the helmet has the "Kra-Lite II" stamp that I think was affixed by Riddell on helmets manufactured up through 1976 (see Mike Princip's www.greenglare.com site for in depth analysis/studies of Seattle Seahawks 1976 inaugural year helmets which consistently have the "Kra-Lite II" stamp). I am hoping that Aeneas01 can chime in to let us all know what year Riddell discontinued the "Kra-Lite II" stamping on the back of their helmets. Anyhow, with the evidence that the helmet has a purple inner shell (post 1975) and the "Kra-Lite II stamping, my guess is that this helmet was manufactured in 1976 and probably worn in 1976 and/or 1977. Notice too the suspension webbing is not as dirty (cleaner white) around the crown of the suspension webbing, and the cleaner white suspension area is round in its shape, which suggests to me that at one time there was likely one of those round grey-colored rubber suspension caps installed inside the helmet. I have a Vikings book with a photo of Marshall's locker from the mid-70's, and the inside of his suspension helmet in that photo has a round grey-colored rubbers suspension cap. Anyhow, this helmet is indeed incredible.

1. i agree, the red mark is not a deal breaker. frankly it looks like blood to me that could have been easily wiped off or worn off...

2. riddell introduced color shells in the very early '70s, but the color options were very limited. teams that sported helmets that weren't included in riddell's color options often opted for a close match and painted the exterior. this approach made paint chipping and scratching less noticeable, far less noticeable than a white shell painted a dark color. the vikes used navy shells painted purple, many teams that sported gold helmets (niners, notre dame, etc.) opted for yellow shells painted gold. around 1977/1978 riddell introduced more colors including purple - this is when the vikes stopped using navy shells...

3. without doing a little digging i would say the kra-lite heat stamp pretty much ran it's course by the same time the new colors came out, late '70s or so. it's not uncommon to see pac3 & microfit helmets with and without the logo but i'm not sure the next generation wd1, m155, af2, etc. were ever stamped...

4. no doubt the jim marshall helmet was fitted with a crown pad at one time as this was a stock accessory for that helmet.

5. the helmet looks pretty darn good to me....

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[Vikingshelmetguy]

Re: Jim Marshall (Vikings) Collection @ HA

Thanks Robert! I appreciate your further insights on the Marshall helmet. It seems that the helmet must be from the 1976, 1977 or 1978 season (my guess is its from 1977)... I will be interested to see how much this auction lot of Marshall items might go for... The helmet alone is worth a lot, I think...