Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

[mr.miracle]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

Howard is absolutely correct and at least in this instance regarding the green St. Pats Ripken that is my understanding of what happened. Since this jersey was purchased by Dan through another private collector not through an auction, what is the recourse here since Lampson is inexcessible? In this type of situation which I am sure happens quite often, where items are bought and sold multiple times through private deals, how does one ultimately trace the sale back to the auction house and directly to Lampson?

Besides that fact, the bottom line is this in the green jersey controversy; The evidence that this jersey was not game used was sent directly to Lou and he never, ever responded. What kind of way to operate is that? Admit you made a mistake and make it right. At least in this particular situation where Lampson does not work independently for his own company, it seems like there is no way to address errors that are uncovered several years after a jersey is authenticated. Trying to backtrack through several years in which a jersey has changed hands multiple times and as Howard pointed out having no receipt directly through the auction house would prove to be a very timeconsuming and almost impossible situation. There seems to simply be no reason why some type of direct contact information is provided for Lampson. If this type of arrangement is not addressed we will continue to see this very type of problem going forward. A collector will buy something authenticated by Lou through an auction house, the item may sell and change hands privately over the course of five or so years and then something is uncovered that is questionable about the item. What is the person currently holding the item to do at that point? Howard is correct, contact info. for Lou Lampson should be provided on his LOA's period. If he wants to be in this business then stand behind what you authenticate and address problems as they occur.

Brett Herman

[CollectGU]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

Dave CollectGu-

As you once again try to defend Lampson, you have failed to understand one major issue. You note, "The responsibility of contacting Lou when something is wrong falls on the auction house". Take Bricol Auctions for example. When they ship you an item from one of their auctions, you receive a LOA from Lampson. As is the case on a regular basis, this item may be sold at a later date to another collector or dealer, and the Lampson LOA is included. If the item in question is discovered to have a problem or is fake, how does this new buyer at a later date (two years?) after the auction try to resolve this? There is no Bricol receipt with the item, and the only LOA is from Lampson, void of ANY contact info on it-no address or phone number? Likewise, how would one trace this item back to Bricol, as there is no receipt or shred of info that it originally came from them years earlier after it has been resold a few times?

Howard, simply have the auction houses that create LOA's for Lou Lampson to sign that have their company logo, their name and contact information so that it can be traced back to that auction house. Is that so difficult?

[hblakewolf]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

Dave-
Have you ever seen a Lampson LOA? I'm completely serious in asking you this, because from this and your related posts, you have not a clue what you are writing about.

Lampson has now been providing his LOA's for well over 5 years + WITHOUT the auction house information included on them. Likewise, Lampson’s current LOA’s do not have his address, phone or contact info., either.

To answer your question, IS THAT SO DIFFICULT?" I would have to say almost impossible. How do you suggest this change in protocol take place? Unless you personally desire to undertake this change and work directly with EVERY auction house that Lamspon provides LOA's for and Lampson himself, it will never happen. Likewise, you're making a huge assumption that the auction houses desire to have their names on a Lampson LOA!

Dave, how about this novel approach. Lampson revises his LOA's to include his contact information-period. Having the company or individual’s contact information is the accepted and standard norm for other sports memorabilia authentication firms as well as authentication firms in just about every trade and industry.

Dave, please keep the Forum readers updated on your progress with this issue.


Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Howard, simply have the auction houses that create LOA's for Lou Lampson to sign that have their company logo, their name and contact information so that it can be traced back to that auction house. Is that so difficult?

[bigtime59]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

Each of us here on the board has their own area of expertise, and could say, regarding items falling in their area, whether an item appeared to be legit or not. The problem we run into is the relatively short duration and excessive frequency of auctions making it hard for us to get questions answered before we pull the trigger.
Let me address one specific area: on Orioles items listed on Bricol, Lampson is almost never...right. That's correct--he's almost never right. Some things I have bid on anyway, as I knew what they actually were (mostly minor league items "authenticated" as major league), but the LOAs, despite the creative! use! of! the! exclamation! point! are valuable primarily as note! paper!

Mark Sutton
bigtime39@aol.com

[CollectGU]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

Dave-
Have you ever seen a Lampson LOA? I'm completely serious in asking you this, because from this and your related posts, you have not a clue what you are writing about.

Lampson has now been providing his LOA's for well over 5 years + WITHOUT the auction house information included on them. Likewise, Lampson’s current LOA’s do not have his address, phone or contact info., either.

To answer your question, IS THAT SO DIFFICULT?" I would have to say almost impossible. How do you suggest this change in protocol take place? Unless you personally desire to undertake this change and work directly with EVERY auction house that Lamspon provides LOA's for and Lampson himself, it will never happen. Likewise, you're making a huge assumption that the auction houses desire to have their names on a Lampson LOA!


Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Howard,

Have you've ever seen the 100% Authentic LOA that AMI uses? Why do you think they use them? It's to track what comes out of their auction houses and when so that if someone has a problem with an item, they'll know it's from their auction house, and address it accordingly. The other auction houses that use Lou should do the same, and I think that at least Vintage does. Lou does not owe the collector his contact info, he only owes it to those that employ him - the auction houses. You may not like it but he has a right to his privacy.

No matter what I say here it is well documented that you don't like Lou and you will argue with me on this point just for the sake of arguing......Your like a broken record...

[Eric]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

Please see the following like to find the joke of a COA I received from Lampson

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=881&highlight=giambi

It says on the LOA that it comes with a lampson LOA. Does that make any sense at all?
It doesn't make sense that he does nothing to compare it to the items being used on the field. There is zero insight offered by this expert
E

[mr.miracle]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

Howard is absolutely correct, I highly doubt that anyone contacting American and requesting that they begin providing contact information from their auction house as well as the numerous other auctions that Lampson authenticates for on the LOA's for each item that is sold through their auction is going to get very far. In fact, if anyone bothers to do that please let us know how long it takes for them to hang up the phone on you.

While Lou Lampson does have a right to his privacy, the buyer of the many items Lou authenticates paying multiple thousands of dollars per item also has a right to have some level of recourse when the authenticity of that item is clearly brought into question after the sale is completed.
There is simply no present system that addresses this issue at least in regard to Lou Lampson authenticated items.

While multiple items have been called into question regarding many authenticators at various auction houses on this forum, the fact remains that virtually any auction that Lampson authenticates for ends up having multiple items called into serious question every time they run an auction. As various forum members have pointed out time and time again, Lampson is simply running his own reputation into the ground by issuing the ridiculous LOA's like the one that Eric posted on the forum in the previous post.

I would regard this as a very, very serious matter when someone is dropping 4 grand on a jersey and has no recourse to contact the authenticator of a completely bogus jersey or better yet, the authenticator after having proof of his error forwarded to him refuses to respond in any way regarding this item.

At this juncture, we can propose all the ideas that we want on how the auction houses should provide their contact info. on the LOA's of whomever is writing the letter for that auction, or request that the authenticators own contact info. be placed on the letter, but like Howard said how realistic is that to actually happen. It appears that going forward any smart person who reads this forum will simply have to run fast when they see a Lampson LOA on anything. His recent authenticated items have proven time and time again to have serious flaws. At this point how could anyone with a shred of intelligence even want to own something that he authenticated? Obviously, people will need to make up their own minds whether or not they would want something authenticated by Lou in their collections. I for one would not touch anything from Lou with a ten foot pole.

Brett

[CollectGU]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

Brett,
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah. Again if you have a problem with something Lou authenticated, call the auction house who employs him, and provide the auction house concrete reasons why you don't like the item. They will answer your question as long as you back it up with fact...Or, just stop bidding in the auction houses that use him.

[Eric]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

Brett,
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah. Again if you have a problem with something Lou authenticated, call the auction house who employs him, and provide the auction house concrete reasons why you don't like the item. They will answer your question as long as you back it up with fact...Or, just stop bidding in the auction houses that use him.

In my experience, that's actually not true. There was a Doug Flutie USFL jersey that had Lou's letter from an American Memorabilia auction (this is a few years ago). It did not have numbers on the sleeves. I had them ask Lou if this could have been a practice jersey since there were no "TV numbers."
The auction house contacted him with my concerns and the answer I got back was "Lou says the Generals wore jerseys in this style too." I asked if he could show me a photo of this style used in a game since I have looked myself and never seen it, and asked people who run USFL fan sites who said they always used jerseys with numbers on the sleeves. The auction house went back to him with my request for a photo. They then told me Lou has photo proof from his colection of research materials and would provide it. He never did.
Eric

[mr.miracle]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

Hey Collect GU, are you the founding member of the Lou Lampson authenticating fan club that you keep defending this guy? Like I said, I am not saying that other authenticators don't make mistakes, but there is clearly a problem here and you don't seem to want to admit it.

Brett

[Eric]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

I would be interested in other people's thoughts on the right way to run an authentication business. I have started another thread (a sticky one at that) on this topic which can be found here.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?p=14664#post14664

Eric

[beantown]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

I noticed that Lou Lampson has authenticated many pieces in the current Vintage Authentics auction and has created a new authenticating system. As I was going over his notes on one particular piece (Lot #8 Tom Brady 2001 Game Used Jersey), I noticed that he gave the jersey a grade of a 9.5. As I read his notes, I was trying to find where the .5 reduction came from and why this jersey didn't grade a perfect 10. Under the section of "Provenance/Rarity", Lou gave it a 1.5 out of a possible 2 points....I thought how can that be? This is a rare jersey, as most Brady gamers you see are the later Reebok version and according to Lou, the jersey originates from the Patriots! (Yes, folks that's in his notes...see below link)

http://pics1.edeal.com/images/p2/wl/vintageauth/docs/brady01gujersLounotes.pdf

A jersey that originates from the Patriots and it doesn't score a perfect 10??? Moreover, if it came from the Patriots, why is it being authenticated by Lou??? Shouldn't a jersey obtained from the Patriots stand on its own???

[Steve Jensen]

Tom Brady 2001 Jersey

Beantown- Had the Brady been consigned with a letter from the Patriots, it could have earned a 10. We traced the lineage and confirmed that it did indeed come from the Patriots but weren't able to get a written confirmation. Nonetheless, easily the nicest "early" Patriots Brady we have seen.

Best Regards,

Steve Jensen
www.vintageauthentics.com
866-304-3090

[bigtime59]

Re: Vintage Authentics & Lou Lampson

Again, the moral of the story isn't "don't buy anything 'authenticated' by Lou Lampson," it's "do your homework before you buy anything, no matter who the 'authenticator' is."
I wasn't about to pass up a nice-looking Bluefield Orioles jersey just because some other knucklehead thought it was a Baltimore Orioles jersey, and if you wanted it, and knew what it was, neither should you have.
Now, I was gambling under $100 on my Bluefield special, so I can cut more slack than somebody who's about to drop four figures, but even if I had the four figures to play with, the rule would still apply.
Just! remember! to! recycle! the! LOA!

Cheers,
Mark Sutton
bigtime39@aol.com