Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

[russyurk]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

I'm not very familiar with the website http://haulsofshame.com but the story below reinforces that we all must do our homework no matter the source of an item.

Say It Ain’t So: Shoeless Joe Jackson’s “Black Sox” Jersey in Baseball Hall of Fame is a Fake: Part of MLB’s $8 Million Purchase From Yankee Owner Barry Halper; “Shoeless Joe,” is “Shirtless”

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=798#more-798

[zybu_s]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

Not sure on the percentage. For collectors its all about the source and the company records on old stuff.

HB Bat have good records and bat with side writing are good bets. HB bats without side writing but display player charateristics and come from a good source are good bets. Items coming from the Halper Collection would be a good bet. There have been at least one case where a game used fielding glove from Halpers collection was shown not to be from the time period perported to be from so its not 100%. I would only buy a Clemente game used item that came from the Halper collection or provenance directly from the Clemente family.

Our hobby is based on trustworthyness of the source. Once that trust is breached, it is tough. Someone could do their own research but it would be tough. There are archives of old players photos somewhere out there, maybe at the HOF. There are old baseball cards.

Surprisingly there are many photo of players in the 60s, 70s 80s on Gettys. Theres a Gettys photo of Frank Chance of the Cubs that looks similar to the jersey that has been auction previously on sothebys. Even Honus Wagner has photos on Gettys. You can study labels if there are samples available.
Vintage Jerseys I would be weary to purchase until I research the offerings by Mitchell and Ness.

But in the end, imho I think the purchaser of vintage will buy based on the comfort level of the source and the provenance they provide.

Extremely well said! This member hit it right on the head. It's all about sources, provenance and, most of all, trust. I do think there is a lot of stuff out there sitting in trunks or closets because a relative is unaware of what he/she has.

[Neal]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

Bats - very high %
Jerseys - no idea

[joelsabi]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

Legal beat me to it but I was going to say Joel you might have to edit your past statement regarding the Halper collection with all of the stuff that has come to light about the fake items in his collection.

As to the OP question, I can't give a % on how much they get right but I believe it all depends on who's doing the authenticating and the auction house/seller. Some are more willing to let questionable items be sold instead of pulling them even when they get questions regarding it's authenticity.

I would still consider a Clemente jersey coming from Halpers collection as there are probably other examplars to look at from this time period. I would not buy it blindly, I would still do my homework.

I just wonder if the same is true for the pre-war period. There is no way a collector could verify it against other jersey before third party authentication was created. Back then I think you had to just trust the source or what did happen back then?

If you look at his catalogue, there are

[Dewey2007]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

is it safe to say that without the Halper collection and HB Bat Company vault sale, there would not be a supply of vintage material for the hobby? what percentage of the hobby material comes from these two sources? i would think a large percentage. anyone know?

Legal beat me to it but I was going to say Joel you might have to edit your past statement regarding the Halper collection with all of the stuff that has come to light about the fake items in his collection.

As to the OP question, I can't give a % on how much they get right but I believe it all depends on who's doing the authenticating and the auction house/seller. Some are more willing to let questionable items be sold instead of pulling them even when they get questions regarding it's authenticity.

[joelsabi]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

Joel,

Read the thread on the Pete Rose 4,000 hit jersey. There is a scary link in there to an article about the Halper collection and how some of his hallmark stuff is fake including the Joe Jackson jersey, the Ruth Red Sox jersey and some others.

It wasn't 100% for Halper before that scary link. I mentioned a game used fielding glove from Halpers collection in this thread earlier. Many of the modern era jerseys in his collection came directly from the player but yes i wonder about the availability of exemplars to compare tags from this pre-war era. Thats why I asked the question about the amount of exemplars in third party authenticators disposal. Halper apparently trusted his sources for his pre-era jerseys but what homework would he have done to compare it to other pre-era jerseys if there are no other jerseys to compare it to.
__________________

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

is it safe to say that without the Halper collection and HB Bat Company vault sale, there would not be a supply of vintage material for the hobby? what percentage of the hobby material comes from these two sources? i would think a large percentage. anyone know?

Joel,

Read the thread on the Pete Rose 4,000 hit jersey. There is a scary link in there to an article about the Halper collection and how some of his hallmark stuff is fake including the Joe Jackson jersey, the Ruth Red Sox jersey and some others.

[joelsabi]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

My question is how large are the exemplar files of third party authenticators for pre-1950's jerseys.

[joelsabi]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

My guess is 50%. I think they get usually half of the vintage bats they authenticate right

whether its an authentic bat cant be disputed, but whether it was used by a certain player and not a teammate would be difficult the hard call. some bat traits fade over time. anyone ever see a ball mark on a ruth bat? isnt that why the side written HB bats go for such a lot of money?

[joelsabi]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

is it safe to say that without the Halper collection and HB Bat Company vault sale, there would not be a supply of vintage material for the hobby? what percentage of the hobby material comes from these two sources? i would think a large percentage. anyone know?

[otismalibu]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

I'd bet there are quite a few people out there with elegantly framed bogus pieces that they show to all their guests.

It's to the point where it barely matters if the piece is legit or not. If one can acquire 'paperwork' on it, then it is what is says. I've seen people on this board discuss how to display their COA. Why would you display a piece of paper? Because that's what gives it value.

You see it all the time. Jersey purchased thru one venue, is immediately sold at another for substantially more money...because it now has a letter.

[Manram]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

My guess is 50%. I think they get usually half of the vintage bats they authenticate right

[MLB_Authentic]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

48.47823%

[joelsabi]

Re: Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

Today, many game used items can be photomatched.

I've always wondered when I see older player (from the 30,' 40',s, 50's, etc.) jerseys, bats, gloves, etc. that have been authenticated, how accurate are they in getting it right.

What do you think?

Regards, Tony

Not sure on the percentage. For collectors its all about the source and the company records on old stuff.

HB Bat have good records and bat with side writing are good bets. HB bats without side writing but display player charateristics and come from a good source are good bets. Items coming from the Halper Collection would be a good bet. There have been at least one case where a game used fielding glove from Halpers collection was shown not to be from the time period perported to be from so its not 100%. I would only buy a Clemente game used item that came from the Halper collection or provenance directly from the Clemente family.

Our hobby is based on trustworthyness of the source. Once that trust is breached, it is tough. Someone could do their own research but it would be tough. There are archives of old players photos somewhere out there, maybe at the HOF. There are old baseball cards.

Surprisingly there are many photo of players in the 60s, 70s 80s on Gettys. Theres a Gettys photo of Frank Chance of the Cubs that looks similar to the jersey that has been auction previously on sothebys. Even Honus Wagner has photos on Gettys. You can study labels if there are samples available.
Vintage Jerseys I would be weary to purchase until I research the offerings by Mitchell and Ness.

But in the end, imho I think the purchaser of vintage will buy based on the comfort level of the source and the provenance they provide.

[3arod13]

Game Used - What Percentage Do You Think They Get It Right?

Today, many game used items can be photomatched.

I've always wondered when I see older player (from the 30,' 40',s, 50's, etc.) jerseys, bats, gloves, etc. that have been authenticated, how accurate are they in getting it right.

What do you think?

Regards, Tony