Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

[spartakid]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Steve, How much did it cost to get these x-rays? Just curious

[spartakid]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Wow, that's a lot less than I would have thought. I do have to say, I still remember that insane set of pics you posted with the Williams, Mays, etc. Nicest collection I've seen to date. Take care

[CowboyJohn]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Bill,

Congratulations for taking the effort to confirm what I strongly suspected. You now have yourself the definitive proof, corroborating my find of almost three years ago. Maybe now, guys like John Taube, who has a Pete Rose PR 4192 model will get off their duff's and X-ray theirs.

Now that the cat is out of the hat, I will share pics of mine.

Three interesting notes:

The paint stick/pen or whatever means that was used to apply the "14" on the end of my bat was obviously scuffed/messed up, and reapplied in an effort to cover up the dirty deed. Yours (assuming the picture you posted is the barrel end, not the knob end) is a bit less messy. It appears the number "14" on yours was only applied once. I'm nt sure what significance there is to this, but maybe one day we'll find out.

Secondly, please note that my bat was sent to MEARS for authentication. They totally missed the fact it was corked. They weighed it, made note of the weight, but the lighter result was apparently written off (in their analysis) as loss due to natural evaporation of the wood over time. A reasonable assumption, so I am not criticizing them for the miss.

Lastly, the technique used to prepare these bats appear to have been different. At the very least, mine was drilled with a machine drill bit, easilly identifiable by the stepped-in narrow end of the hole drilled. Bill's bat was drilled with an auger bit, as evidenced by the "V" shaped grove at the end. Bill's appears to be a bit off center as it travels through the bat, and mine appears to be dead-nuts through the center. This could be a minor "operator" error when locking the bat up in a vice, or possible because one was set it in a machine lathe which would insure better accuracy. Who knows, but it is interesting to note. It also proves that corking a bat is not an exact science.

A year or so ago, I mentioned I had a theory on why Pete Rose "sanded" a patch on his Black Mizuno bats. My theory was that he did so to inspect the wood grain on his bats.

Why?

His story, which most here reiterated as their belief to be true, was because he wanted to see the ball marks better on his bat the next time he used it.

Huh?

That made no sense then, and makes less sence now. What BETTER SUFACE would their be to show newly placed ball marks on a bat then BLACK LAQUER? Especially after he would wipe his bats down with rubbing alcohol to remove the old ones. THINK about that for a minute...

If you rub off the alcohol on the bat, removing all the old ball marks, WHY SAND THE PAINT OFF? So you can try to see lighter balls mark on a sanded light ash grained surface instead of on a BLACL LAQUERED SURFACE? That's ridiculous, the black surface would make it MUCH easier to see. Any of you that own a black vehicle will understand what I'm talking about here. Shiney black surfaces show EVERYTHING.

Pete's concocted story was...just that. I still believe to this day, that he sanded a patch of paint off these bats......because they were CORKED. And he wanted to check out the possible damage/errosion to the grain of the bat after some use. After all, being a few hits away from breaking Ty Cobb's record, what could be more disappointing than having a bat shatter on hit number 4102 and have cork fly all over the field?

As maybe a few more of these, NOW, will surface, we may all be able to put the pieces together.

Tommy Gioiosa told Vanity Fair magazine in his famous interview that Pete corked his bats. It appears Tommy was telling the truth.

Some pics of mine...

Notice on the two similar pictures on the knob the starting of the separation of the 3/4" wood plug, circling through the "4"...

I'm sorry for all the typos....here is a corrected version, typos highlighted...


Bill,

Congratulations for taking the effort to confirm what I strongly suspected. You now have yourself the definitive proof, corroborating my find of almost three years ago. Maybe now, guys like John Taube, who has a Pete Rose PR 4192 model will get off their duff's and X-ray theirs.

Now that the cat is out of the hat, I will share pics of mine.

Three interesting notes:

The paint stick/pen or whatever means that was used to apply the "14" on the end of my bat was obviously scuffed/messed up, and reapplied in an effort to cover up the dirty deed. Yours (assuming the picture you posted is the barrel end, not the knob end) is a bit less messy. It appears the number "14" on yours was only applied once. I'm not sure what significance there is to this, but maybe one day we'll find out.

Secondly, please note that my bat was sent to MEARS for authentication. They totally missed the fact it was corked. They weighed it, made note of the weight, but the lighter result was apparently written off (in their analysis) as loss due to natural evaporation of moisture in the wood over time. A reasonable assumption, so I am not criticizing them for the miss.

Lastly, the technique used to prepare these bats appear to have been different. At the very least, mine was drilled with a machine drill bit, easily identifiable by the stepped-in narrow end of the hole drilled. Bill's bat was drilled with an auger bit, as evidenced by the "V" shaped grove at the end. Bill's appears to be a bit off center as it travels through the bat, and mine appears to be dead-nuts through the center. This could be a minor "operator" error when locking the bat up in a vice, or possible because one was set it in a machine lathe which would insure better accuracy. Who knows, but it is interesting to note. It also proves that corking a bat is not an exact science.

A year or so ago, I mentioned I had a theory on why Pete Rose "sanded" a patch on his Black Mizuno bats. My theory was that he did so to inspect the wood grain on his bats.

Why?

His story, which most here reiterated as their belief to be true, was because he wanted to see the ball marks better on his bat the next time he used it.

Huh?

That made no sense then, and makes less sense now. What BETTER SURFACE would there be to show newly placed ball marks on a bat then BLACK LAQUER? Especially after he would wipe his bats down with rubbing alcohol to remove the old ones. THINK about that for a minute...

If you rub off the old ball marks on the bat, WHY SAND THE PAINT OFF? So you can try to see lighter balls mark on a sanded light ash grained surface instead of on a BLACK LAQUERED SURFACE? That's ridiculous! The black surface would make it MUCH easier to see. Any of you that own a black vehicle will understand what I'm talking about here. Shiny black surfaces show EVERYTHING.

Pete's concocted story was...just that. I still believe to this day, that he sanded a patch of paint off these bats......because they were CORKED. And he wanted to check out the possible damage/erosion to the grain of the bat after some use. After all, being a few hits away from breaking Ty Cobb's record, what could be more disappointing than having a bat shatter on hit number 4102 and have cork fly all over the field?

As maybe a few more of these, NOW, will surface, we may all be able to put the pieces together.

Tommy Gioiosa told Vanity Fair magazine in his famous interview that Pete corked his bats. It appears Tommy was telling the truth.

Some pics of mine...

Notice on the two similar pictures on the knob the starting of the separation of the 3/4" wood plug, circling through the "4"...

[yanks12025]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Nice bats. Hope you ask Rose about the bat and see what he says.

P.S
Has any company/mlb done tests to see how kork affects hitting the ball/distance, i think i may kork one of my bats and see if i can hit better.

[Rob L]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Nice bats. Hope you ask Rose about the bat and see what he says.

P.S
Has any company/mlb done tests to see how kork affects hitting the ball/distance, i think i may kork one of my bats and see if i can hit better.

I don't know if or who would have studied the cork bat issue, but com
on sense would indicate that the bat would be lighter allowing for a quicker swing and a spring affect would occur since the bat would have a compressable material in the center.

This getting very interesting.

[CowboyJohn]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

From what I've read on scientic studies on this issue, the bat speed (velocity) gained is offset by the lost on impact (lighter density) and as a result, you may...may...get a little "pop" off the bat since the speed is increased, but assuming you've hit it on the screws and on a home run trajectory, the ball has will lose it's arc a bit quicker because of the loss of inertia on impact from the lighter density bat.

I posted on this a long time ago. I personally thing the biggest "gain", if any at all, is the psychological advantage a slumping player may gain, thinking he is gaining some time to choose whether to swing or not on a pitch, due to the lighter bat. That "split second" advantage, some have claimed, is a benefit to a guy who is trying to get his timing back. I don't really buy it. And, even if that's true, I don't believe Pete Rose would have been corking bats for that reason. I would be more apt to believe it was to get that "snap" back, the ball coming off the bat with a bit more "pop". But how much of that is a true advantage, versus a mental advantage?

Maybe he wanted to insure that he maintained his "stroke", and insured the possibility of getting the chance to break Cobb's record by doing what he felt necessary to not fall into a slump. Even as the player/manager, how could he justify keeping himself in the line-up if he slumped to, say, .180? Only he knows for sure what edge he felt he needed. He was getting way up there in age, and if he was losing speed on that swing due to his age, maybe a touch of eye sight too, he may have felt desperate to make a fix. But my GOD, what a chance he took. Corking your bats, as Gioiosa claimed "right before he broke Cobb's
record"....wow. He could had one blow out on him and shatter champagne plugs all over the infield, and then what??

Yeah, I guess you could say this guy was a gambler.

[33bird]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

I've heard the studies on cork showed hardly any difference whatsover in POP from a normal bat. I agree with a couple things: A lot of his Mizunos had no 14 on either end. Maybe he mostly put the 14 on those bats to cover the corking. Secondly, I agree with the shaving thing somewhat except he did that long before he used black mizunos. I have sanding on one of his 1979 bats. Didn't make sense to me either: Why sand the black off the barrel? The black shows the ballmarks much better than white ash wood. Now for Taube's Mizuno. I've NEVER seen Rose using a Mizuno with the Mizuno sticker still on the bat. From what I've read and seen he always removed that sticker. So I wonder if that one was ever really used in a game? If anybody has him using the black Mizuno with the sticker still in place let me know. Just my 2 cents. I've had a number of Rose Mizuno bats and still have a couple in the family but none that have signs of cork and none of them are numbered.

[Jules9]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

I think Mythbusters tested a corked bat in one of their baseball episodes

[schubert1970]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2295922

Jan 19, 2006


Bensinger: Do you think there are those that simply have personal vendettas against you?


“Twenty years after the fact, I used a corked bat. I didn't use no cork bat. I had cork in my arms. ”— Rose on recent rumors that he used a corked bat near the end of his career


Rose: Well, I don't know about vendettas. You know, there are some people in this world that don't think I could hit. I cheated to get hits. Now, all of a sudden, I used corked bats -- is that why I hit all those damn home runs? Because I used corked bats? Twenty years after the fact, I used a corked bat. I didn't use no cork bat. I had cork in my arms.

[schubert1970]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

A few more funny quotes about corked bats from Pete.

Rose, at the end of his career and desparately wanting to break Ty Cobb's hit record, used a corked bat. Tommy said he asked Pete what would happen if the bat broke and Pete responded, laughing, "there will be f*****g cork all over the field."

The thing I love is how Sosa wants us to believe that's the one time he ever went to the plate with a corked bat," Rose says, laughing. "I have a friend who works in that clubhouse. He told me there were 79 other bats in there with cork in them. Seventy-nine. "It was like a Chinese fire drill to get rid of all them bats."

[dcrules01]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Awesome story photomatch . So are you keeping the bat or sending it to an auction? Great pickup either way

[schubert1970]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Awesome story photomatch . So are you keeping the bat or sending it to an auction? Great pickup either way

I plan on keeping the bat. Cork or no cork, I think the PR4192 is a great model.

[tacprc]

Re: Pete Rose PR4192 photomatch?

Chuck,

The photo credit is on the inside cover. The pic was taken by Bob Bartosz. He told me he took the picture, but couldn't tell me what ballpark it was taken in.

Bill

OK. Thx. Theoretically Bob should be able to find the photo negative and tell you when he took the picture.
p.s. I met Bob once. I flew to Philadelphia for the first Sportsfest. Bob picked me up at the airport and drove me to his house. I bought a Rose bat from him. I think it was a model R3631, definitely not a PR4192.

[schubert1970]

Re: Pete Rose PR4192 photomatch?

OK. Thx. Theoretically Bob should be able to find the photo negative and tell you when he took the picture.
p.s. I met Bob once. I flew to Philadelphia for the first Sportsfest. Bob picked me up at the airport and drove me to his house. I bought a Rose bat from him. I think it was a model R3631, definitely not a PR4192.

I wrote Bob a couple of times and he recognized the photo he took, but said he took 1,000s of Rose pictures and he wouldn't be able to look at all of them. I told him the photo was in 1985 and asked if he could just tell me what park the photo was taken in. I never received a response.

My hunch is the pic was taken in Philly only because of his location and the other photos he has taken seem to be in Philly.

[tacprc]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Steve / Cowboy John,

Please don't take offense, but I am wondering whether your PR4192 bat is a game model as opposed to a replica.

Your bat has a mushroom knob. Bill's doesn't. I also have photos of PR4192 bats from Greg Walker and Chris Smith, and their bats look like Bill's.

Does your bat have the letter "A" stamped into the knob?

Thanks.
Chuck