2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

[Clutch_Hitter]

Re: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356




Accidentally removed my pictures when I organized Photobucket...

Since this thread started, I've been collecting pictures of various Pujols bats, several hundred now. And I have recently submitted another bat to PSA, should be there soon after an autograph is authenticated. Needless to say, it's easy to understand why it's safer to collect typical Pujols bats, but I never stopped liking this one, flattened left barrel and all.

This one doesn't appear to be one of the typical, controlled release bats. Nice bat

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=44932&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=26&seo=2004-Albert-Pujols-St.-Louis-Cardinals-Louisville-Slugger-Professional-Model-Game-Used-World-Series-

And I've certainly enjoyed looking at all the cool GU stuff y'all have, best regards.

[Clutch_Hitter]

Re: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

Thanks Dave.

[Clutch_Hitter]

Re: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

Thanks Jason. This post will be serving as a detailed examination of this Pujols bat, just trying to cover everything.

[CollectGU]

Re: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

Is anyone actually looking at the bat handle of this bat? There is hardly any pine tar and appears in line with what I've seen on othet Pujols bats....

Dave

[stlbats]

Re: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

Hey Clutch,

You have a nice bat there, but you are asking questions that no one can answer for sure. Unless someone saw Pujols or another player use/break this bat, then there is no way to say for sure one way or another. I have several GU bats with deep seam impressions. Most all MLB players have the ability to leave deep seam marks on 90 MPH plus pitches. All anyone can go off of is typical player characteristics. That is not to say that there can't be exceptions at times. Unfortunately without an exact photomatch, there is no 100% evidence of anything.

Jason

stlbats@bellsouth.net

[Clutch_Hitter]

Re: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

Just noticed a Pujols bat that was used by Tino Martinez in the "......heavily used/tarred bats thread." Pujols #5 was completely blacked out on the knob and Tino's characteristics were identifiable. Awesome thread!

[Clutch_Hitter]

Re: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

Jeff mentioned, But, once somebody else adds their characteristics to a bat, it covers up the characteristics that may have existed prior.

We know that most Pujols bats that are accepted as 100% authentic have fairly clean handles, and when a player uses a Pujols bat after Pujols, it covers the existing characteristics of the handle. But how does that work with the deep seam impressions and the caved left barrel? How are they covered up?

Why is the handle of a Pujols bat the primary factor in determining if a Pujols bat was used by him or a teammate? This bat was ordered and labeled by Pujols and the left barrel sweet spot was subsequently battered into retirement after a few swings. It's really possible for a non-Pujols player to inflict that sort of damage to the sweet spot of the left barrel, even a pitcher? Then why do people make such a big deal out of the deep seam impressions on their power hitter bats? My co-worker let me examine his Dale Murphy bat (Phillies), and I couldn't find one seam indentation, just a lot of deadwood. My Gwynn bat shows extensive use but much shallower seam impressions. Gwynn, one of my favorite players, did hit the ball hard.

During the one '04 game I watched for Pujols characteristics, which again was the 2004 NLCS game 7, Pujols instinctively grabbed the center of the bat immediately after each pitch (that he didn't hit). It was so rapid that it seemed to be habit, wasn't but a split second after the ball hit the mitt. But when he scooped the dirt up, which was only in two at-bats, it certainly didn't seem like a habit. He seemed to be looking around to find the right spot, sort of wondering around. But when he got it in his hands, he wrenched the handle of the bat with those mighty mitts of his.

I'm really trying to understand this........

Pujols is well on his way to being one of the greatest hitters to play the game. How would a major league player foul off two BP fastballs and leave red stitch marks on one of them, just a BP fastball? I played through college and even at that level, we rarely fouled off BP fastballs.

By the way, I played junior college ball at Jefefrson State before moving on to Birmingham Southern. In JUCO, I played against Jorge Posada when he played at Calhoun Community College. He hit two bombs in that game. At Southern, we were ranked 3 to 6 in NAIA both years, defeating Auburn when they were #1 NCAA D1, and Miss State when they were top 25, Delta State when they were #1 D2, etc. Coach Polk was going for a record setting win that game with Miss State. We advanced to the world series in Sioux City, finishing 3rd. Oil Can Boyd was playing for the Redsticks then and spoke at the opening ceremonies. A few years later, Southern moved to NCAA D1 but a new president was acquired, one who wanted football, so they dropped to NCAA D3. Coach Shoop left and is now at UAB, and Coach Polk is Shoop's assistant. Prior to coaching at Southern, Shoop was Polk's assistant at Miss State when W. Clark, Palmeiro, and Thigpen were there. I had the opportunity to play Independent ball after college but couldn't due to finances at the time, although a medical doctor in my hometown offered to pay my room and board. Man, I love baseball!

I'm really starting to wonder about that broken cup on the right barrel. Anybody, please?

[Clutch_Hitter]

Bat Details: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

Here are some more examples of the warped left barrel. The seam impressions themselves are incredible, but what's more incredible is that the entire sweet spot of the left barrel is an indentation in itself; it's caved in.

I counted approximately 14-18 different seam impressions on the sweet spot and four blue ink transfers. Therefore, it took little use to hammer the left barrel to the point of retirement. Isn't this the reason Pujols gamers show moderate use, because he destroys the sweet spot with his highly accurate power?

[Clutch_Hitter]

Re: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

Here's another bat:

[Clutch_Hitter]

Re: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

Rick, thank you for the link.

Taratape, will you post pictures of your M356? Thank you

[taratape]

Re: Red and Blue Ball Mark

Taratape,

Sounds like you have a nice bat, must be the one 34.5 version he used to decide he didn't like the model. Your comment indicated deep seam impressions are a pujols characteristic, yet Jeff said he has pitcher bats that have the same. You have blue ink transfer, yet Jeff said all bats have them. Red bat rack marks indicate anybody's bat rack in St Louis. I would actually disagree, if the handle is totally clean, he didn't use it. It should have light pine tar from him grabbing the center label between pitches.

I don't doubt it's a good bat, OK, but there are redundancies throughout this thread. I've only watched one game looking for tendencies and found Pujols picking up dirt and grinding it into the handle between pitches, grabbing the tar on the center label between pitches, and putting the tar on top of the dirt. He probably didn't pick up dirt often but just one game proved he did. Pictures don't lie. It's more common to have a clean handle.

yeah, should have said the handle is just like the photos Jeff presented in this thread...totally clean was probably the wrong way to describe it . I think as Jeff and you describe, a clean handle is more common.
Really just wanted to mention there was another m356c that Jeff forgot to mention

[Clutch_Hitter]

Re: Red and Blue Ball Mark

Jeff,

you forgot to mention the auto'd m356c M9 bat 34.5" you authenticated for me that you termed "textbook Pujols use characteristics". my bat has the deep seam impressions, blue ink transfer, red bat rack marks, light tar, but has a totally clean handle..... nothing like the bat in question.

Taratape,

Sounds like you have a nice bat, must be the one 34.5 version he used to decide he didn't like the model. Your comment indicated deep seam impressions are a pujols characteristic, yet Jeff said he has pitcher bats that have the same. You have blue ink transfer, yet Jeff said all bats have them. Red bat rack marks indicate anybody's bat rack in St Louis. I would actually disagree, if the handle is totally clean, he didn't use it. It should have light pine tar from him grabbing the center label between pitches.

I don't doubt it's a good bat, OK, but there are redundancies throughout this thread. I've only watched one game looking for tendencies and found Pujols picking up dirt and grinding it into the handle between pitches, grabbing the tar on the center label between pitches, and putting the tar on top of the dirt. He probably didn't pick up dirt often but just one game proved he did. Pictures don't lie. It's more common to have a clean handle.

[taratape]

Re: Red and Blue Ball Mark

I can't take issue with anything in the PSA/DNA letter regarding the M356C bat discussed in this thread. But, before discussing specifics, let's look bigger picture.

Albert's preferred Louisville Slugger model was the I13L, usually with the cupped end. I have Albert's LS order records through May 2005 and count 240 I13L bats shipped to him between 2004 and 2005 (the era consistent with the M356C in this thread). During the same period, I count 24 M356C bats. Half of those M356C bats were shipped in early 2004 and likely have the "Select Maple" center brand variation, like this bat:



The remaining 12 bats likely have the M9 center brand variation. Of those 12 bats, only 3 (ordered 4/12/05) are 34" long; the other 9 are 34.5" long. Again, my records for Albert end early in the 2005 season, but based on the information I have (and the fact that laser-etched barrels didn't last long into the 2005 season), it's possible he received as few as 3 bats that have the same specs and the bat in this thread. That fact alone makes the odds that he used it pretty long. But, let's ignore that and move forward.

Anecdotal evidence I've heard suggests Pujols gave away most of the M356 bats he received because it was not a model he liked. I've been told he gave several to Mike Matheny, who preferred the M356. This photo shows a laser-etched M356 Pujols bat caked with Matheny's pine tar:



I also know an unused M356 model was used for a photo shoot for the 2004 Cardinals yearbook, and an autographed, unused M356 once hung in Al Hrabosky's restaurant.



So, we know Albert didn't receive many M356 bats; I've been told by people who would know that he didn't care much for the model; and there are multiple known instances of him giving them away. None of this rules out the possibility that Pujols used the M356 discussed in this thread. But, it certainly is relevant to the discussion.

Next, you have to consider the use characteristics. I agree that the tar buildup on the lower handle near the knob is inconsistent with what I'd expect to see on a Pujols bat. Here are two photos of two Pujols bats from 2004 and 2005 (both have team LOAs). Note the pine tar pattern -- especially near the knob -- and the presence of marks made by the on-deck weight:





As Pujols collectors know, Albert started using a heavier coat of pine tar in late 2008 and really slathered it on in 2009. The photo below shows a 2009 Pujols bat with maybe the most pine tar I've ever seen on a Pujols bat. Even so, look how clean the area is where he grips the bat:



I have seen my share of Pujols bats, and I know the folks at PSA/DNA have also. I have to agree with them -- when you see a tar buildup where Albert grips the bat, that's a good indication someone else used the bat.

If you accept PSA/DNA's educated opinion (remember, it's just an opinion -- nobody has proof of who used the bat), then you have to accept the statement that use by Pujols cannot be confirmed. It's entirely possible that Pujols did use the bat -- perhaps in a game, in BP or in the cages. But, once somebody else adds their characteristics to a bat, it covers up the characteristics that may have existed prior.

On the whole, this bat has many characteristics that you'd want to see in a Pujols bat. I want to see seam marks and ink transfer on the right-hand hitter's side; I want to see red paint transfer from the bat box at Busch II; I want to see light tar on the upper handle. However, it doesn't seem to have the bat weight marks I'd expect to see, and it does have a buildup of pine tar in a place that's inconsistent with known exemplars.

Based on what I see in the photos, I'd have to agree with PSA/DNA's letter. It could have been used by Pujols, but that can't be stated with certainty because there's evidence that someone else used it. Whether it was used by this batter instead of Pujols or in addition to Pujols, nobody can say. The letter is as clear as it can be. It doesn't say it was used exclusively by someone other than Pujols -- just that it shows something that's inconsistent with Pujols exemplars.

As for the Marucci bat on eBay referenced in post #13 of this thread, it's one of four bats I reviewed belonging to the seller. I wrote letters on all four bats expressing they didn't have Pujols' characteristics -- specifically, a lack of pine tar during a period when Albert was using it liberally. The dark wood near the knob on this particular Marucci bat appears to be some kind of staining, not pine tar. Looks like inferior wood (two of the other bats also had wood discoloration). Here's the letter I wrote about the bat currently on eBay: http://webpages.charter.net/birdbats...008252008b.pdf

Jeff,

you forgot to mention the auto'd m356c M9 bat 34.5" you authenticated for me that you termed "textbook Pujols use characteristics". my bat has the deep seam impressions, blue ink transfer, red bat rack marks, light tar, but has a totally clean handle..... nothing like the bat in question.

[rj_lucas]

Re: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

Here's a link to another thread from a while back where there was discussion about pine tar (or lack of) in the grip area on Albert's bats:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=35978

Don't know if the information will be useful to you or not, but I remembered the thread so thought I'd pass it along.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[Clutch_Hitter]

Re: 2004 Albert Pujols LVS bat M9 Model M356

Thanks Tony,

Evidently Pujols didn't write his number on EVERY bat he ordered, but probably just about every bat. Yadier Molina was number 41, so apparently Pujols gave him the bat when he received it without writing his #5 on the knob first.

Therefore, Pujols' #5 written on the knob and barrel end are pieces of circumstantial evidence, albeit small pieces.

It is obvious that Pujols typically used bats with fairly clean handles. Trust me, I've searched through hundreds of photos, and I'm sure others have as well, and there aren't very many Pujols bats with noticeable substance on the handles. People are fairly predictable until circumstances begin to change though.

The summer months here in the southeast US are very hot. It's not uncommon to walk from the front door to mailbox and have a wet shirt when walking back inside, and to play a round of golf requires three or four gloves.

What team(s) had baby blue bat racks in '04? What about black?