MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

[aeneas01]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

I'm not speaking about this item, per se, but when I was employed there, it was fairly normal to grade a warmup top or jacket as "authentic" rather than provide it a numeric grade.

when you worked for mears was it also normal to grade an item as "authentic" even though no supporting evidence could be provided? even though no photos or exemplars matching the tagging could be provided?

this isn't a flip question - i'm wondering if perhaps mears reserves "authentic" grades for sketchy items while awarding numerical grades to items that can be conclusively matched, which seems to be the case with the following warm-up from the exact same period which mears graded an a-9.5:





whatever the case, mears claiming that the "maravich" jacket is an authentic gamer is just plain wrong and downright embarrassing. it smacks of "we've gotten away with it before so why not continue to do it." heck it could even be legitimately argued that the tagging style isn't conclusively from new orleans' inaugural season despite mears' claim to the contrary.

perhaps an "authentic" grade equates to the same nonsense as an a-5? if not, then why didn't mears give the "maravich" jacket a numerical grade as they did the sloan? just a ridiculous mess with one aim in mind - to imply authenticity in the item when so such authenticity exists. shame.

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[sox83cubs84]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

aeneas:

There were items authenticated and graded without style/photo matches, but this normally was limited to low-end items...I don't recall anything the magnitude of the Maravich ever receiving such treatment.

Dave Miedema

[aeneas01]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

aeneas: There were items authenticated and graded without style/photo matches, but this normally was limited to low-end items...I don't recall anything the magnitude of the Maravich ever receiving such treatment.

low-end items were authenticated without the benefit of style/photo matches? that's comforting. but i guess it's one way to boost the value of low-end items....

fwiw, mears has obviously become aware of this thread given that at the end of the "maravich" lot description the following has been added:

"For a matter of record, NBA items were often found with an "Exclusively Tailored For Tag." We have examined similar period NBA jersey from the same team that was found both with and without this tagging. We have one late 1970s example of an actual Jazz jersey found without the Exclusive tag."

unfortunately, but not surprisingly, this addendum is more mears double-talk and ultimately dishonest. mears states that they know of a LATE 70s example without an exclusivity tag. so what, i know of many LATE 70s examples without exclusivity tagging. but we're not talking about LATE 70s garments are we? we're talking about a garment mears claims is from the 1974/75 season. as such, what in the heck do LATE 70s exemplars have to do with the discussion?

fwiw, it's not uncommon to find LATE 70s sand-knit garments without exclusivity tagging nor is it uncommon to find LATE 70s garments without sporting goods tagging. but again, we're talking about a sand-knit garment that's supposed to from the mid 70s (not the LATE 70s) which, as was then the norm, included team exclusivity tagging. in fact every period-relevant exemplar mears said they used as a reference is fitted with team exclusivity tagging. so what's with this "LATE 70s" nonsense? how about this: let's see how many sand-knit gamers from the period in question, not the LATE 70s, mears can scare up without team exclusivity tagging.

btw, if mears honestly believes that this jacket is authentic then what does that say about mears' values and ethics as a company? and how does mears square this with their claim that they are in business to empower and educate collectors? i mean offering someone $4k for an item and then turning around and listing it as something worth "an estimated value of $20k+" doesn't exactly strike me as much of an education - perhaps it's a tough love type of thing?

anyway, as i mentioned before, it's just shameful that mears would grade this thing as "authentic" and then claim it's value is in excess of $20k given that mears clearly knows that garments from this era were fitted with team exclusivity tagging. it's even more shameful when one considers that mears has also admitted that they can find absolutely no proof whatsoever that any jazz player, let alone maravich, ever wore such a jacket.





btw mears said that they style-matched the maravich jacket back lettering to a pondexter exemplar (of course the pondexter jacket has a team exclusivity tag, go figure). anyway, here they are side by side - does this strike anyone as a style-match?



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[Sonny25]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

I'm at a loss for words.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

Some sort of style-match of any Jazz player wearing this style would be nice. MEARS hurried this warm-up to auction in about a week (an important piece like this needs more research and evaluation).
Sniping this jersey AFTER the auction ended is troubling, but has nothing to do with authenticity(doesn't speak well to "helping the hobby").
I have seen Sand-Knit jerseys from the late 60s to the late 80s without the exclusive tag:


By no means does this Kareem/Lew photo have anything to do with the legitimacy of the Maravich. This Milwaukee jersey may very well be a salesman sample/proto-type (the background is unknown). It is without the exclusive tag.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

Wow. Nice job Robert. Just goes to show 3rd party authentication is a total waste.

[CollectGU]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

I emailed the seller for some info and this is what they replied, guilty of something, hysterical!:

User details:From User:betsha1917 (3133)98.7% Positive FeedbackMember since Feb-07-02 in United StatesLocation: OH, United StatesActivity with betsha1917 (last 90 days): I have bid on 0 items from betsha1917
Activity with betsha1917 (last 90 days): betsha1917 has bid on 0 of my items




Dear ,

The jacket I had turned out to be a fake. Not mine.

- betsha1917
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply





From:
To: betsha1917
Subject: has sent a message
Sent Date: Oct-29-10 10:35:29 PDT










Dear betsha1917,

I was curious who you ended up selling the maravich jacket to. They own a sports auction house where the bid is currently 2,600 dollars on it. I'm curious if they bought it directly from you and what they paid

[aeneas01]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

By no means does this Kareem/Lew photo have anything to do with the legitimacy of the Maravich. This Milwaukee jersey may very well be a salesman sample/proto-type (the background is unknown). It is without the exclusive tag.

first, beautiful shot of lew - i just can't get enough of clear, vintage photos. second, sand-knit made that shirt for lew's 04/69 nba draft photo ops, they also made it in white. anyway, these shirts were made long before the bucks' 1969/1970 gamers were ordered... here's another draft shot of lew posing with the shirt:



did lew ever wear these draft shirts in a game, 6 months later when the 1969/70 season began? or did he give them away to friends/family knowing that gamers (most likely with team tagging) would be ordered for him? who knows? btw i really like your site, just first-rate. i especially like your photo archives and tagging history sections (however you're missing at least two styles of sand-knit tags from the 1970-1980 era!).

fwiw, mears has again amended their "maravich" lot description, presumably due to this thread - their latest change includes the adding/highlighting of the following entry:

"For a matter of full disclosure, there is no direct provenance or images of Maravich wearing this jacket."

hey, no kidding mears. but, again, more mears double talk - for example, what's up with "... there is no direct provenance" nonsense? i mean good grief. hey mears, there is no provenance whatsoever on this thing, direct or indirect. further, there are no images of ANY jazz player sporting such a jacket!

so let's see: no provenance, no photos, no style matches and a lack of typical team tagging for that era. yet mears stamps it "authentic". and with an apparent straight face, also claims that it has an estimated vaule of $20,000+. are you kidding me? again, good grief.

it's time for mears to bite the bullet on this mess and admit that they were caught trying to pull a fast one - they can do this by pulling the thing from their auction (which they may do anyway if it doesn't get any more action) and spend their free time scouring every corner of the universe for a photo that will help their cause before trying to run it up the flagpole again.

or better yet, mears should just list the thing honestly, as an odd-ball jacket that is most likely a salesman sample or the like, but something that would nonetheless look nice in a collection.

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[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

btw i really like your site, just first-rate. i especially like your photo archives and tagging history sections (however you're missing at least two styles of sand-knit tags from the 1970-1980 era!).

Robert
Thanks for the interest in my site. It was originally a showcase of my collection, but finances forced me to be a dealer. I have 100s more jpgs of vintage sports photos that I have yet to add to my photo archives sections. It is difficult to navigate and I am working to convert them to resizable thumbnails.
Please email me directly any Sand-Knit tags that I missed. I have "Sand-Aire" and "Sand-Stretch" that have yet to be added. I do not claim to be an expert, and I learn everyday from research.
Another of Lew from the same photoshoot in the home white:


Warren

[cohibasmoker]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

Since this thread has some reference to Sand-Knit tagging, perhaps another forum member can refresh my memory on Sand-Knit jerseys - when were dealer tags replaced with "Designed and Tailored Exclusively tags" - was it 1971 or 1972?

Jim

[soxbats]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

I was puzzling over this auction the other day, and I have the following potential solution. Someone should pull the relevant sports pages from the New Orleans Times-Picayune. Obviously this is something that MEARS could (and might) have done, but I have no doubt that there were likely many pictures of Maravitch, a basketball hero, in the Jazz's opening game in their inaugural season. At a minimum there should be a style match in there somewhere. Any New O locals on the board?

I looked at local libraries and could not find it, but the UPENN librarian had the below suggestion. For a piece of this potential value, I wonder why the rush to list. Happy hunting for anyone so inclined.

Unfortunately we do not have The New Orleans Times-Picayune on microfilm in our
collection. To locate a holding library that does carry it, I would recommend
using Worldcat (http://www.worldcat.org/) an online catalog of library catalogs
that will rank your results by zip code, so you can find the library closest to
you. If there is no holding library close to you, you can also try placing an
Interlibrary Loan (ILL) request with your local public library to borrow the
film from a holding library.

[otismalibu]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

At a minimum there should be a style match in there somewhere.

I don't think the difficulty is finding a photo of Jazz players in the their opening season warmups. It's finding them wearing this particular style.

Did the Jazz have both home and road warmups during their first season?

[soxbats]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

Actually, the MEARS description states: "Additionally, we could find NO image of an early 1974 Jazz jacket worn by ANY player."

That was what my post was trying to address. Get the paper from the first few games and see if there is anyone pictured with the warm up. The suggestion by MEARS is that this could have been used in an early 1974 game. Also, there may be a written description of the uniforms.

[otismalibu]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

Actually, the MEARS description states: "Additionally, we could find NO image of an early 1974 Jazz jacket worn by ANY player."

Why does it need to be an early 1974 jacket? Is there evidence that the Jazz wore multiple styles during 74-75?

When are team photos taken? Would a 1975-76 hoops card feature a team photo from the previous year?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

Elgin Baylor was hired as an assistant coach for the Jazz's first season. Is that Elgin rockin' a warm-up? DUDE!



Who would have the nerve to write an LOA for that one?