Market for GU NHL Gear?

[amerks25]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

The market for hockey game worn used jerseys has been a mess for some time now due to what else but money. Teams have so many sets of jerseys these days a hockey gamer with lets say one team repair is a great find. Prior to "big" company collector/dealers getting involved in the market it was different, not better per say, but different. Teams started to realize that their used uniforms had value so instead of issuing 2 sets per season they now can use up to 6 sets of each color a year. Some players might even get a new jersey each game, and in special games a new jersey is issued each 20 minutes as in the winter classic games. An average player gets around 18 minutes of icetime a game so these uniforms are really in mint condition when they are sold. Dont forget that many teams have third jerseys, so game wear is even more difficult to find. This alone will kill the hockey market in time.
It was always fun to wait for Murf Denny or Milt Byron to send out lists in the spring when they had entire sets of jerseys after the teams got eliminated from the playoffs. Jerseys with a seasons worth of game use with massive repairs and filth on them was the norm. Now if there is a tape mark on a sleeve its big news and high lighted in the description. There will always be a market for older pre 1990s jerseys jerseys with real game wear. Those are game worn jerseys that have seen game action. Not a single shift or a few games.
The hockey game worn world needs Murf Denny, Milt Byron, Doug Reisinger, Brad Moore type dealers. Not one clearing house.

[Dewey2007]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

For what it's worth, I came across the Montreal Canadiens selling game worn jerseys on their team website and I was impressed at how detailed they were about when each set was worn and how many games that included. No photos posted of the jerseys though. I don't collect game used hockey and not sure how many NHL teams sell jerseys on their sites but I just thought this was interesting.

http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=53032#2007-2008

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

Also, the replica jersey or retail "fan" jersey started with hockey fans. Hockey fans in the mid 60s were wearing "sweaters" of their favorite teams when baseball fans were wearing short-brimmed fedoras and Jantzen pull-overs. Then some dude wore a wool baseball cap in the 70s to a MLB game and was thinking "outside" the box.
I'm sure that the original Game Used Forum was created from the inspiration of gameworn.net.
Jersey collecting begins and ends with hockey.

[BarryMeisel]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

Dewey2007,

The Canadiens' system imitates the system MeiGray has used with 2002, when it partnered with 22 NHL teams. Over the years, certain teams have gone on and used the MeiGray system on their own.

We consider imitation the sincerest form of flattery. Especially since our system was designed to protect collectors from buying non-authentic jerseys - even the grumpy collectors who complain about "the good old days" and dispel myths on public forums while ignoring the ugly reality that hockey fakes were epidemic in the '80s and '90s.

MeiGray was founded in 1997 BECAUSE an epidemic of unscrupulous parties (mostly hockey insiders) with intimate knowledge of what gamers looked like were faking jerseys and duping collectors out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Hit the gameworn.net search feature for long threads on many of those long, detailed stories.

The game-worn hockey market began to cleanse itself in the late '90s, early '00s. I am proud to say that MeiGray had a big hand in this. The NHL apparently agreed, because five years after our introduction, it partnered with us in 2002 in the NHL-MeiGray Game-Worn Jersey Authentication Program, a program that continues today.

MeiGray became the first company and the NHL became the first league to create an authentication program that ensured authenticity of EVERY JERSEY worn by the participating teams in the program.

The uninformed and inexperienced complain about the population of game-worn hockey jerseys, but the reality is that the game-worn hockey market has never been healthier. They conveniently ignore the number of fakes that ripped off collectors years ago. They conveniently forget that the unscrupulous parties pumped out many more jerseys than they admitted to.

They are correct about game use, but they conveniently forget to say that the quality of the uniforms, the rules changes, and the desire of teams to look good rather than save money, are the reasons why.

We proved this at our Expo a year ago when we showed a jersey that was photo-matched (to threads and imperfections) to approximately 20 consecutive games ... and hardly showed a scratch. In the old days, it would be common for an unscrupulous entity to bang the jersey around, take a needle and thread, slice and repair it, and call it "hammered."

MeiGray issues a Population Report after each season, and has done so since 2002-03. And 100% of these jerseys are authentic and game-worn (OK, we've made 2 or 3 mistakes out of 50,000 jerseys, which is why we have a 100% money-back guarantee for life on any jersey deemed not legit).

Many collectors are afraid to look in their closets at the hockey jerseys they bought 20 years ago for fear of learning the truth. Our MeiGray Authenticated service, unfortunately, has delivered bad news many, many times. Which strengthens our resolve to do things the way we have for 13 seasons.

Yes, teams wear more game-worn jerseys today ... most average 3 sets of home and road each season, not counting a set or two worn in one game for charity, or special events.

But the proof in the health of the market is that these jerseys sell for much, much more than the average jersey for a player due to the hobby's immense popularity.

And considering there are 10 times as many collectors today as there were 15 years ago, the increase in inventory is a blessing for collectors. If teams wore two sets, common players would sell for $1,000 apiece.

Common NHL players sell for $395-$595 and stars sell for $1,000-$7,500 ... certainly on par with NFL players.
Sidney Crosby-$8,000 - $12,500
Alex Ovechkin-$7,000-$12,500
Martin Brodeur-$7,500-$10,000 top the hockey charts for regular season jerseys.

Crosby's Finals and Winter Classic jerseys have sold for $25,000-$42,000.

And these prices are all documented and confirmed by responsible and respected entities in the hockey hobby, as opposed to irresponsible statements often made by those trying to espouse biased views.

The Winter Classic, the NHL's signature event, and the Stanley Cup Finals, the most important league event, are two great examples ... Teams wear a jersey each period in the Winter Classic (two sets for the marketplace, one set for the players to keep) and the two sets made available sell for two and three times what the player's average jersey sells for.

Auction results have proven this each time since the Classic was introduced in 2008.

Teams working with MeiGray wear two sets of home and two sets of road jerseys in the Finals ... so that the teams/players can keep a home and road from the most important games in their lives and collectors can order one set from homes and roads.

These jerseys regularly sell at 2-5 times what a regular jersey sells for.

We have agreements with 10 NHL teams in 2010-11 and have used this system with great success with the tens of thousands of game-worn hockey collectors.

Happy to continue the discussion, although between football and turkey, it's a
nice holiday day. As you can tell, I feel passionately about the game-worn hockey hobby, and do not like reading irresponsible comments.

I respect everybody's opinions, and support forums like these vehemently. But opinions and statements must be supportable ... and when they are not, I feel the need to reply.

Some say that MeiGray is biased, because we are a business making money on game-worn jerseys.

But our goal since 1997 was based on the credo I set for the company ... that we will earn our reputation by providing absolute authenticity, with unparalleled integrity, to help strengthen a hobby that so many of us love.

I believe we earn our profits by providing what the hobby demands and deserves.

Happy Thanksgiving everybody,

Barry

[Dewey2007]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

Barry, good to know the Habs are using a tried and true method of selling their game used jerseys. Keep up the great work you guys are doing for the hobby. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours too!

Dewey2007,

The Canadiens' system imitates the system MeiGray has used with 2002, when it partnered with 22 NHL teams. Over the years, certain teams have gone on and used the MeiGray system on their own.

We consider imitation the sincerest form of flattery. Especially since our system was designed to protect collectors from buying non-authentic jerseys - even the grumpy collectors who complain about "the good old days" and dispel myths on public forums while ignoring the ugly reality that hockey fakes were epidemic in the '80s and '90s.

MeiGray was founded in 1997 BECAUSE an epidemic of unscrupulous parties (mostly hockey insiders) with intimate knowledge of what gamers looked like were faking jerseys and duping collectors out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Hit the gameworn.net search feature for long threads on many of those long, detailed stories.

The game-worn hockey market began to cleanse itself in the late '90s, early '00s. I am proud to say that MeiGray had a big hand in this. The NHL apparently agreed, because five years after our introduction, it partnered with us in 2002 in the NHL-MeiGray Game-Worn Jersey Authentication Program, a program that continues today.

MeiGray became the first company and the NHL became the first league to create an authentication program that ensured authenticity of EVERY JERSEY worn by the participating teams in the program.

The uninformed and inexperienced complain about the population of game-worn hockey jerseys, but the reality is that the game-worn hockey market has never been healthier. They conveniently ignore the number of fakes that ripped off collectors years ago. They conveniently forget that the unscrupulous parties pumped out many more jerseys than they admitted to.

They are correct about game use, but they conveniently forget to say that the quality of the uniforms, the rules changes, and the desire of teams to look good rather than save money, are the reasons why.

We proved this at our Expo a year ago when we showed a jersey that was photo-matched (to threads and imperfections) to approximately 20 consecutive games ... and hardly showed a scratch. In the old days, it would be common for an unscrupulous entity to bang the jersey around, take a needle and thread, slice and repair it, and call it "hammered."

MeiGray issues a Population Report after each season, and has done so since 2002-03. And 100% of these jerseys are authentic and game-worn (OK, we've made 2 or 3 mistakes out of 50,000 jerseys, which is why we have a 100% money-back guarantee for life on any jersey deemed not legit).

Many collectors are afraid to look in their closets at the hockey jerseys they bought 20 years ago for fear of learning the truth. Our MeiGray Authenticated service, unfortunately, has delivered bad news many, many times. Which strengthens our resolve to do things the way we have for 13 seasons.

Yes, teams wear more game-worn jerseys today ... most average 3 sets of home and road each season, not counting a set or two worn in one game for charity, or special events.

But the proof in the health of the market is that these jerseys sell for much, much more than the average jersey for a player due to the hobby's immense popularity.

And considering there are 10 times as many collectors today as there were 15 years ago, the increase in inventory is a blessing for collectors. If teams wore two sets, common players would sell for $1,000 apiece.

Common NHL players sell for $395-$595 and stars sell for $1,000-$7,500 ... certainly on par with NFL players.
Sidney Crosby-$8,000 - $12,500
Alex Ovechkin-$7,000-$12,500
Martin Brodeur-$7,500-$10,000 top the hockey charts for regular season jerseys.

Crosby's Finals and Winter Classic jerseys have sold for $25,000-$42,000.

And these prices are all documented and confirmed by responsible and respected entities in the hockey hobby, as opposed to irresponsible statements often made by those trying to espouse biased views.

The Winter Classic, the NHL's signature event, and the Stanley Cup Finals, the most important league event, are two great examples ... Teams wear a jersey each period in the Winter Classic (two sets for the marketplace, one set for the players to keep) and the two sets made available sell for two and three times what the player's average jersey sells for.

Auction results have proven this each time since the Classic was introduced in 2008.

Teams working with MeiGray wear two sets of home and two sets of road jerseys in the Finals ... so that the teams/players can keep a home and road from the most important games in their lives and collectors can order one set from homes and roads.

These jerseys regularly sell at 2-5 times what a regular jersey sells for.

We have agreements with 10 NHL teams in 2010-11 and have used this system with great success with the tens of thousands of game-worn hockey collectors.

Happy to continue the discussion, although between football and turkey, it's a
nice holiday day. As you can tell, I feel passionately about the game-worn hockey hobby, and do not like reading irresponsible comments.

I respect everybody's opinions, and support forums like these vehemently. But opinions and statements must be supportable ... and when they are not, I feel the need to reply.

Some say that MeiGray is biased, because we are a business making money on game-worn jerseys.

But our goal since 1997 was based on the credo I set for the company ... that we will earn our reputation by providing absolute authenticity, with unparalleled integrity, to help strengthen a hobby that so many of us love.

I believe we earn our profits by providing what the hobby demands and deserves.

Happy Thanksgiving everybody,

Barry

[BarryMeisel]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

Same to you, Dewey.

The key to an effective authentication system, in our opinion, is the pre-tagging prior to the jersey's use and the post-use authentication.

When we get a set of jerseys from the team that is logged as having been worn during certain dates, we use photos from games to confirm the info.

Barry

[Lokee]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

For what it's worth, I came across the Montreal Canadiens selling game worn jerseys on their team website and I was impressed at how detailed they were about when each set was worn and how many games that included. No photos posted of the jerseys though. I don't collect game used hockey and not sure how many NHL teams sell jerseys on their sites but I just thought this was interesting.

http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/page.h...3032#2007-2008

I have bought several jersey's and other equipment from the Canadiens and they are top notch. They are very good at working with you on what game worn item you are looking for.

[gingi79]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

Let me pile on here. When I found out the Vancouver Canucks left the MeiGray program, I let out a string of obscenities that would make a sailor blush. I was heated folks. Why? Well, for 2 reasons.

1) I trust less than 10% of people when money is involved. I'm a NY guy, we invented the con. I assume everyone is out to screw me outta money. In order to get into the 10% I trust, you have to earn it with years of business practices documented with integrity. Anyone can be suzy smiles when things are going great, how do you handle that rare instance when something goes wrong? Barry stands behind his stuff and say what you want about sets/wear, the guy does what's right by collectors. A quick story: MeiGray had a $99, $199 $299 sale one year. You had to search the websites and if you were the first to find a jersey that was marked down tremendously and COMPLETED the transaction first, you could save a ton of money. Well I found a Daniel Sedin marked down from $595 to $99 (if memory serves) Well I wasn't the only one and a couple of people had it in their cart. I wasn't the first to complete it, so I had no leg to stand on.

Barry let me have one at that price anyway.

We all complain when a dealer does the opposite, just look at the Steiner sale thread with the Jeter signed base. Would Steiner do what business ethics might dictate to us that they should?

2) The jersey market as a whole is a funny duck. If you looked at Katrina patched or Garth Brooks Patched or Winter Classic patched shirts and assumed any 3 period worn shirt would easily sell at that price, your marketing manager would assume $1750 was a "fair" price for a Ryan Kesler jersey. Like a man pulling his finger out of his nose, it's snot. Canucks jerseys are horribly and insanely overpriced now and I can no longer collect new styles of my favorite player on principal alone as I'm not dropping $600 for a one game wonder when Summer Sale shirts are $225 with much nicer wear.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone but Meisel as he once again selfishly is keeping my White Whale surrounded by Ranger jerseys. oh the humanity!

[BarryMeisel]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

For those of you wondering why Matt is nuts about this Bure jersey, it's a black Stanley Cup Finals jersey photo-matched to Game 7 of the 1994 Finals. It's a grail of any Canucks collection ... but ...

I own it because it pairs with my photo-matched 1994 NYRangers white Craig MacTavish jersey. And those were the two players who took the last faceoff with 1.6 seconds left in Game 7, when the Rangers won their first Stanley Cup in 54 years.

Now, if anyone can find the puck ...

Barry

[amerks25]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

I guess that I am a "grumpy old collector" in Barrys eyes. So be it. The Meigray system is good and has been a plus for the hobby but it to is not a be all end all. I have seen in an auction a Kansas City Blues game worn Jersey that had a LOA from Meigray. Problem is that it had a Wilson tag in the collar, and had a LOA stating that it was a game worn St Louis Blues. Wilson NEVER produced jerseys for the St Louis Blues. Ask the one collector/ dealer that has had the most St Louis items over the past 30 years and that would be Hockey Gallery. I could be wrong, but I dont think I am. So someone has a Kansas City Blues jersey with a Meigray letter stating its Al Arbours St Louis Blues jersey. This is a problem. Meigrays system is a good thing for the hobby, but please realize that its not fool proof, nothing is in this or any hobby. There are people that are dis honest and produce CC specials or add fake game wear to jerseys. Still happens, but less often now thank goodness.
By the way Barry, regarding the system that you invented, does the name Phil Maier and Sports Registry ring a bell? It should and that started in 1993 in a basement in St Louis. Any Blackhawks collectors out there? Check your jerseys from 1993-1997 and see if there is a small bar code on the base of the fight strap.

[BarryMeisel]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

Amerks,

We're quite familiar with Sports Registry's work in the mid '90s. They even took a shot at authenticating the NHL's All-Star Game jerseys once or twice in the '90s. But I do not believe their bar code system accounted for all jerseys. If it did, I do not ever recall seeing this information publicized by collectors, or the teams with which they worked.

If I am mistaken, I'd welcome hearing from a Blackhawks collector who has any information on authentication from Sports Registry. We have in our database a number of jerseys with Sports Registry barcodes.

Amerks, if you ever would like to check on one of these numbers, please do not hesitate to take advantage of our authentication service.

And please let me know more about your claim that an Al Arbour jersey we authenticated is actually a Kansas City Blues jersey. If we've made a mistake, we will certain correct this.

Barry

[jobathenut]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

I know this has nothing to do with the topic.But i just had to comment.You won't find a better company to do buisness with than mei-gray.Mr barry meisel and the people he has working for him are all buinsess.I bought my brother a troy riddle jersey for christmas last year.And with thier great sale i was able to do it at a great price.And then my brother bought a troy riddle for himself soon after christmas.And a smoother transaction i have never had.And my brother also commented how great it was to do a deal with them.He just wished they had more of troy riddles jerseys in stock.Don't get me wrong i love milt.But as great i think milt is as a person at bryons hockeyland.He can also be somewhat slow in doing a deal.Where barry had my jersey out to me right away.I just had to say that.

[soxfan]

Re: Market for GU NHL Gear?

So with all that has been posted (thanks everyone), could someone put a value on my 2008/2009 GU/PHOTOMATCHED Cancuks stick?

Just wanting to know what it is worth, as I know what I paid for it, and that was before it was photo matched.

Again, thanks to everyone who chimmed in on this thread.

Jeremy
macleodjeremy@hotmail.com