Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

[diamondicons]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

On June 1st, 2011 I received a note from Greg Walker indicating that he wanted to explain why he made changes to the jersey. He also indicated he knew it was me that provided the data to Dave Grob that resulted in the revocation of the MEARS A10 LOA. He provided 3 photos of the jersey that he indicated were taken prior to submitting the jersey to MEARS for evaluation. The three photos included the front, back, and close-up of the right sleeve. He said that upon close inspection of the right sleeve of the jersey he was able to identify where a 1976 patch had been removed. So he removed the 1976 Centennial patch from his home Don Werner jersey and had it sewn onto the Rose jersey. In his message he felt that MEARS would identify the patch change and would deduct appropriate points for the restoration. Greg also indicated that he wrote the “2” on the Wilson label and removed the signature to give the appearance that the jerseys were not one in the same. What Greg failed to realize was the photo files provided pertinent data including when the photos were taken. The photos were taken Dec 28th, 2010; well after the MEARS evaluation. I also contacted a previous owner of the jersey and asked if there was any evidence of a patch having been removed from the jersey. He was certain there was not. The previous owners of the jersey that I am aware of are knowledgeable Reds collectors and one of them would have recognized if a patch had been removed. My message back to Greg was that he fabricated the story of the patch having been removed as nothing more than attempting to form the basis that the jersey was actually from the 1976 season which we know for certain it was not. His story would form the basis for his rationale to have the patch sewn on the jersey. My position was that he had removed the patch after MEARS evaluation, took the photos that now depicted a patch having been removed and then had the patch re-sewn onto the jersey. This was all done in an attempt to support his position that the subject jersey was in fact from 1976 and that he had done nothing more than restore the jersey with an original patch. Greg did not deny my accusation and indicated he was certain no one would believe his position that there was evidence of a patch previously on the jersey. He also indicated that it was time to sell the jersey that he should have left alone from the beginning.



I purchased the subject jersey from Greg and am currently in the process of fully documenting everything that has transpired on the jersey over the course of the last year+. The Centennial patch has been removed. Also, Greg indicated the "2" was written in non-permanent marker and he was able to remove it through washing.


If any forum members would like the documentation I am preparing that summarizes what had been done to the jersey and my research provided to Dave Grob and others, please send me an e-mail and I would be more than happy to share it with you.


One thing is certain...there will be no more modifications of the subject jersey. It will be fully documented in its current state for exactly what it is; not something it is not, as has been the case over the last year.


Mike

mlwills@knology.net

[bronx_burner]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

Seems Mr. Walker either got wind of this post or made a deal off ebay and the listing has been ended. Hopefully nobody took the bait. I guess we shall see if it pops up again at a later date. Still makes me sick that he had to destroy a prefectly nice bat for no good reason. That was the only block letter O'Neill I've seen.

[bronx_burner]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

Also, this bat did not come from a bat boy. That probably goes without saying at this point, but I guess its worth noting that the first time this bat was listed on ebay, it was noted as being acquired by a fan (the seller) from O'Neill at a game in Atlanta in September 1985. The seller was not a buyer or seller of GU or sports memorabilia.

[bronx_burner]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

Very interestng and disturbing thread.
So what happened to Greg? Is he still selling?

Appears that he is still selling and still doctoring items, sadly.

Here is a listing he currently has for a Paul O'Neill block letter bat.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170627480151

Some photos from his listing:






It was actually a pretty nice bat before he ruined it too. Below is a photo of the bat as he bought it. It was autographed but not any more. It now has O'Neill's number 21 added to the knob. And the best is the new added fake tape residue. I think this guy has now fully cemented himself as one of the biggest dirtbags in the hobby.

[Bravesfan]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

Very interestng and disturbing thread.
So what happened to Greg? Is he still selling?

[Masimen]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

Did this ever go anywhere? Seemed like a pretty big deal that involved a senior board member and it just kind of died and went away. Said board member has not responded which obviously doesn't bode well.

[soxbats]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

There was a long thread about a purported Bench bicentennial bat that involved a reds collector named Greg, with the screen name "33 bird"

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=32294&page=3&highlight=bench+powerized

Is this the same gentleman?

In that thread the doctoring of a bench bat from unused to purportedly used was documented with several pictures from auctions. Interestingly, the bench bat was doctored with a knob number that was exactly the same as a legitimate bench bat and the use was substantially the same as a legitimate Bench bat, demonstrating that the forger, whomever it was, had an intimate knowledge of the Red's labeling practices.

Ironically, Mears was also involved there and defended the branding and the theory that such a bat could be legitimate.

The whole thing is frightening for anyone other than the most accomplished collector who can ferret out such issues.

[bagbig]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

This is shameful and fraudulent!!!! Didn't Greg Walker have a fake bat that there is a long thread on as well?? Where there is smoke, there is fire.

[Titans74]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

I agree this is disappointing too. I have bought and sold a couple of items with Greg and he always seemed like a passionate collector especially with 75-76 Reds items. The evidence seems pretty overwhelming so not sure why he would risk do something like this especially to a Rose jersey from that era. It looks like another vintage jersey bites the dust...

People risk their so-called reputations over things like this typically for two reasons. They are greedy and they never expect to be caught. When caught they usually disappear for a certain amount of time only to reappear either with a boatload of excuses and a sob story about what made them do it or they just reinvent themselves under a new internet id.

Either way, once a thief always a thief. A dishonest person gets no sympathy from me.

[tacprc]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

I think that the missing piece of information here is that the original Pete Rose road jersey could be dated to either 1974 or 1975. I don't believe that it is possible to reliably distinguish between those two years -- as regards Reds road jerseys.

All things equal in terms of game use, etc., a 1976 Pete Rose road jersey would be worth at least 20% more than a 1974-5 Pete Rose road jersey.

[LWMM]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

I wouldn't be so quick to call the Rose jersey "ruined" or "lost". It's certainly not all original anymore, but I bet that the patch could be removed without leaving terribly obtrusive stitch marks (hey, it's better than a gamer that's been sewn onto a matte for framing), and perhaps a dry cleaner could suggest a way to remove or fade the mark ("2") on the tag. It's dissapointing that the jersey was altered, and it looks at this point as if Greg's reputation is trashed, but I think the jersey can be turned into a moderately restored 1975 Rose gamer without much effort.

[Dewey2007]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

I agree this is disappointing too. I have bought and sold a couple of items with Greg and he always seemed like a passionate collector especially with 75-76 Reds items. The evidence seems pretty overwhelming so not sure why he would risk do something like this especially to a Rose jersey from that era. It looks like another vintage jersey bites the dust...

[diamondicons]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

This is disappointing…the hobby now has one less legitimate 1974-1975 Rose jersey. After Greg indicated he had a 76 Rose, I made multiple attempts to purchase his 75. Now I know why he declined. I know Greg’s primary emphasis was the 1976 Reds. He had multiple 76 bats and purchased my 76 Gullett. Even so, his intentional alteration of the jersey to make it appear as a 76 makes no sense. Fortunately for the hobby, the issue surfaced and was investigated by Dave Grob…otherwise there would be a 1976 Rose MEARS 10 that no one would have questioned.

[Number9]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

The part I dont understand is why RUIN in 75 jersey, a jersey I assume is worth 5 grand or more. I mean you cant get that sharpie off without likely damaging part of the tag and if you take that patch off you likely will have some stitch damage. So to me it is ruined.
Now it is neither a 1976 jersey or an all-original 1975 jersey.
At least with a bad jersey someone tries to turn into a good one, its not a financial risk, but with this one you risk (and ruin) a $5,000 jersey. Doesn't make sense.

[dcrules01]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

So was Greg the one that altered it. I remember his thread about aquiring the 75 Rose jersey. And now that the jersey was altered does it devalue the 75. Times are tough for everyone but why ruin a valuable piece. Also Dave mentioned Greg aquired a 76 with the bicentennial patch and then resold that jersey without the patch. I have dealt with Greg on a few occasions he has always been upfront with me when I have been looking for items. It would be ashame if this was done. I would love to find a 76 Youngblood or Flynn jersey with the patch but if I am correct they were recycled. Any possibility that Rose was giving the same jersey he wore in 75 to be used again in 76? A lot of collectors like patches I do also. I have a 78 road Youngblood for the Mets. Hope to find a 79-82 one day with his name on the back. This would be like me stripping the 78 and having his name added on the back. I would never do that. I also was baffled when krukcards listed a 79 road Mets Richie Hebner but the tagging said it was set 1 and had the number 18 Youngbloods number. Also had the outline of a longer nameplate for Youngbloods name but it was Hebners.. All we as collectors can do is do out homework ourselves. The thing that bothers me I'd the fact that it seems Greg tried selling the jersey even as Dave requested the original documentation bacj. Only Greg can answer this but as he was not obligated to provide proof that he has both jerseys in his possesion wouldn't any of us do that just to show that we were innocent. I know I would have no problem.