MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

[aeneas01]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

Auction/memorabilia companies are getting worse by the second. They don't want to guarantee anything because it allows them to sell, promote, and "certify" high end questionable items without any fear that someone will return a $100,000 item that the proved was fake.

i'm not sure that's entirely true. it has been my experience that most auction houses will take an item back if it can be conclusively proven that it wasn't as described or not authentic.

having said that, i don't know why an authenticator would even consider guaranteeing their work to the tune of an item's full market value. not because they're not good at what they do, but because the scope of what they're trying to do is so enormous and because aberrations to the norm, which can easily invalidate an opinion, are usually inevitable. take mears for example - i don't think there's anyone alive that takes the evaluation process more seriously, spends as much time on it, or offers as much detailed/quality work as dave grob. moreover i recently looked at an evaluation that dave bushing did on a very valuable piece that was impressive as hell and spot on. yet i would bet that both daves would admit that he's missed a thing or two in the past. of course this isn't a knock on these guys, it's just the nature of the beast. and the beast has never been more formidable than it is today given the easy communication between niche experts and the ton of available information that's readily available to anyone interested in doing a little digging. jmo.

[CollectGU]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

From my experience, I'm not so sure that their buy back guarantee was something they truly honored.

I purchased a jersey from ebay for $2,800 in the fall of 2008 and told the owner that I wanted a guarantee against authentication by MEARS with the intent of selling it in REA. I sent it into REA, who sent it to MEARS and it came back as an A10 (and I actually apid the authentication costs.) I let the seller know that it passed authtneication in February 2009. It was put in the catalogue and in auction as an A10. During the auction , Troy said he received information that the jersey was no good and asked that it be pulled which it was. I asked Troy if I was protected, since they were wrong in their original authentication and I was out $2,800 ( i explained in an email to the ols owner that it was now deemed not be authentic, but was ignored). He told me I wasn't protected and I felt that I should have been, because once they deemed it an A10 and I released the seller from the money back guarantee, I was now the one losing money based on their incorrect evaluation, and Troy still wouldn't budge, which made me question just how great the protection is.

Best,
Dave

[trsent]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

mears said the same about the other items they've evaluated, that they would stand behind them 100%. now they've announced they won't. that they've changed their minds. will it stick this time around?

How can anyone answer your question? It is impossible to know the answer. You poise a question to raise doubt which is your choice. You are basically trying to cause confusion in the industry. Never a positive post about MEARS from you, so what is your point?

I understand, you don't like the policy change, but MEARS made a decision and unless you get a court order I don't believe that decision is going to chance. They announced their decision and maybe it's because they are the only authenticator in the business open to public submissions (other than bat authenticators, there is no public authentication company writing letters for jerseys and other items) or maybe it has something to do with Dave Bushing not working for their authentication division anymore, but it is the change they decided to make.

according to mears' announcement, items before the change won't be covered either despite what mears guaranteed.

but that's exactly what mears promised as part of their evaluation service, as part of the value of a mears letter. they said they would protect the buyer against any loss as a result of a mistake in their letter. in fact they guaranteed it. now they're reneging according to their recent statement.

what's the strong message to the industry? mears offered a guarantee and now they're taking it back. where's the message in that?

I would guess the message is not to use their authenticating service if you used it for their guarantee. So, people who have items they are looking to sell with a good letter should take their item to which authenticating service now?

I know, people on this forum say just post it on here and we will tell you if it is good. Some people want a piece of paper, and MEARS is the only one offering this. No more money back guarantee hurts the value of the letter, but as usual, people bring up a small handful of errors found by MEARS but never pat them on the back for the multiple thousands of correct evaluations.

Again - They give an opinion, just now you lose the protection part. What I remember from this policy is that MEARS made a guarantee, but they also had a policy to go after the original submitter for the losses if errors were found. I don't remember details, but who cares, the policy is now void.

i don't think anyone believes that this is the end of the world, i just think some are concerned that what was promised is now being unilaterally unpromised.

changing policy is fine, going forward. trying to make it retroactive isn't nor is reneging on collectors who in large part based their purchase decision on mears' 100% buyer protection guarantee.

I think you are confused. I think most people didn't even know of the guarantee. Most people see a letter and make a decision.

that's good information. although it seems like an awful lot of work for two "primary" guys.

I think you believe MEARS is taking a lot more submissions that I believe they are.

In closing, I understand the reasoning for the policy change by MEARS - Too much risk for not enough profit. They risk being set up by fraudulent people, they risk the employment of several full time employees.

I always found the policy to be amazing and it caused a lot of friction on the boards over the years of how it was interpreted. Now they are moving forward with a new policy, and those who don't like it have to find other ways to have letters written for their merchandise.

It's a new day.

[trsent]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

i'm not sure that's entirely true. it has been my experience that most auction houses will take an item back if it can be conclusively proven that it wasn't as described or not authentic.

having said that, i don't know why an authenticator would even consider guaranteeing their work to the tune of an item's full market value. not because they're not good at what they do, but because the scope of what they're trying to do is so enormous and because aberrations to the norm, which can easily invalidate an opinion, are usually inevitable. take mears for example - i don't think there's anyone alive that takes the evaluation process more seriously, spends as much time on it, or offers as much detailed/quality work as dave grob. moreover i recently looked at an evaluation that dave bushing did on a very valuable piece that was impressive as hell and spot on. yet i would bet that both daves would admit that he's missed a thing or two in the past. of course this isn't a knock on these guys, it's just the nature of the beast. and the beast has never been more formidable than it is today given the easy communication between niche experts and the ton of available information that's readily available to anyone interested in doing a little digging. jmo.

Robert, you are wrong with the comment that most auction houses stand behind their auctions. Many, many do, but many, many have a policy that all items should be viewed before the auction and all sales are final.

Why do so many auction houses not accept credit cards? Insane that in 2011 any major business doesn't take credit cards, but still some major sports memorabilia auction houses do not take credit cards and they say this is to save 2-4% fees but many of us know this is so items cannot be returned and disputed.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

From my experience, I'm not so sure that their buy back guarantee was something they truly honored.

I purchased a jersey from ebay for $2,800 in the fall of 2008 and told the owner that I wanted a guarantee against authentication by MEARS with the intent of selling it in REA. I sent it into REA, who sent it to MEARS and it came back as an A10 (and I actually apid the authentication costs.) I let the seller know that it passed authtneication in February 2009. It was put in the catalogue and in auction as an A10. During the auction , Troy said he received information that the jersey was no good and asked that it be pulled which it was. I asked Troy if I was protected, since they were wrong in their original authentication and I was out $2,800 ( i explained in an email to the ols owner that it was now deemed not be authentic, but was ignored). He told me I wasn't protected and I felt that I should have been, because once they deemed it an A10 and I released the seller from the money back guarantee, I was now the one losing money based on their incorrect evaluation, and Troy still wouldn't budge, which made me question just how great the protection is.

Best,
Dave

Dave, the way I read this, I agree with MEARS that you deserve to get your money back from the original seller who guaranteed the item. Now, if someone bought the item from REA and then it was deemed bad, then that person would be under the MEARS guarantee.

Just my opinion, though.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[BarryMeisel]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

Joel,

MeiGray authenticates jerseys. Our area of greatest expertise is hockey and modern-era basketball jerseys.

Because of our vast research material and our working relationsihp with Getty Images, we believe we offer the hobby's most reliable and comprehensive photo-matching service.

And we believe the most reliable level of authentication involves that which relies on facts, not opinions.

Respectfully,

Barry

[aeneas01]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

Dave, the way I read this, I agree with MEARS that you deserve to get your money back from the original seller who guaranteed the item. Now, if someone bought the item from REA and then it was deemed bad, then that person would be under the MEARS guarantee.

Just my opinion, though.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

ken, if i read dave's post correctly, and his account is accurate, then mears is definitely on the hook for the $2,800 based on their buyer protection guarantee. dave purchased the shirt from the seller contingent on whether or not it passed muster with mears. mears' gave it two enthusiastic thumbs up, an a10, so dave released the seller from their arrangement secure in the knowledge that his $2,800 was well spent. had mears told dave that the shirt was fake, or that they were unable to authenticate it, then dave wouldn't have dropped $2,800 for the shirt, nor would the seller have held him to the deal because of their contingency arrangement. so mears is directly responsible for dave being out of pocket on this deal, and therefore should reimburse dave the full amount for the shirt, plus the money he spent for the evaluation, according to their policy.

Joel,

MeiGray authenticates jerseys. Our area of greatest expertise is hockey and modern-era basketball jerseys.

Because of our vast research material and our working relationsihp with Getty Images, we believe we offer the hobby's most reliable and comprehensive photo-matching service.

And we believe the most reliable level of authentication involves that which relies on facts, not opinions.

Respectfully,

Barry

very helpful contribution barry.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

If an company can make their buyer protection null and void and make it retroactive then why use them at all?
What good are they if they decide not to stand behind their work?

If anyone thinks that this will save them from future financial loss then I bet you would be wrong. There are a lot of the original Mears COA's out there and all it is going to take is one lawsuit for the house to crumble.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

I wanted to say also that I can understand if Mears wants to make a new contract with new items but to make it retroactive is not good business in my eyes.

[CollectGU]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

ken, if i read dave's post correctly, and his account is accurate, then mears is definitely on the hook for the $2,800 based on their buyer protection guarantee. dave purchased the shirt from the seller contingent on whether or not it passed muster with mears. mears' gave it two enthusiastic thumbs up, an a10, so dave released the seller from their arrangement secure in the knowledge that his $2,800 was well spent. had mears told dave that the shirt was fake, or that they were unable to authenticate it, then dave wouldn't have dropped $2,800 for the shirt, nor would the seller have held him to the deal because of their contingency arrangement. so mears is directly responsible for dave being out of pocket on this deal, and therefore should reimburse dave the full amount for the shirt, plus the money he spent for the evaluation, according to their policy.


very helpful contribution barry.

Robert,

That is accurate. Once they deemed the shirt authenic and I released the seller letting him know it passed with an A10, then he was no longer responsible to me. It didn't switch to unable to authenticate until 3 months after I released him (the seller could have done the rigfht thing here, but I'm sure he knew I had no leg to stand on once I informed him it passed so he ignored me). The liability for my loss passed onto MEARS in my opinion when they authenticated it as authentic and I released the seller based on their authentication. They refused to reimburse when I requested under the buyer protection program. I sent MEARS my emails showing the contingent deal with the seller, etc to prove my point with Troy but to no avail.

Dave

[trsent]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

Joel,

MeiGray authenticates jerseys. Our area of greatest expertise is hockey and modern-era basketball jerseys.

Because of our vast research material and our working relationsihp with Getty Images, we believe we offer the hobby's most reliable and comprehensive photo-matching service.

And we believe the most reliable level of authentication involves that which relies on facts, not opinions.

Respectfully,

Barry

Barry, sorry, I forgot about MeiGray being a 3rd party authenticator.

Your company has so many team deals often I forget you do offer this service!

[BarryMeisel]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

No problem, Joel.

Barry

[aeneas01]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

Robert, That is accurate...

in that case dave (assuming there are no extenuating circumstances or details that you didn't mention), mears has you covered for the full amount you're out of pocket, including the evaluation fee according to mears' "100% purchase protection guarantee" - there's nothing at all ambiguous about mears' protection guarantee:

"The Buyer Protection Program is one of the fundamental guiding principles upon which MEARS was founded. We realize that collectors are looking for quality, certainty, and security when it comes to buying and selling memorabilia for their collections. Since our inception, MEARS has operated under the guidelines that if you purchased an item that MEARS evaluated and it was later proven to be something other than what MEARS claimed, MEARS would guarantee that you, as the purchaser, were not out of pocket for the expense of that purchase."

further, the guy you purchased the item from became moot the moment mears stepped in for a fee, told you it was an a9, and guaranteed there findings. in short dave, mears assumed full financial responsibility for the item when you went through with the purchase based on mears' fee-based expert opinion, according to the terms of their published guarantee. mears clearly states that they are able to guarantee their expert opinions because:

"The key to our ability to offer this guarantee and these services is the use of our worksheets and grading concepts. MEARS goes to great lengths to evaluate and grade all items with consistent accuracy..."

in fact, according to a fairly recent mears post at the net54baseball forum, mears is working with the consignor of the 1938 gehrig jersey in the current rea auction because he originally purchased the jersey based on a mears a9 grade (and guarantee i assume), which was later lowered by mears to an a5, then upped to an a7. according to mears' post, the consignor feels that the downgrade in evaluation score will cause him out of pocket loss. sounds similar to your situation.

[CollectGU]

Re: MEARS 100% Buyer Protection No Longer Honored?

in that case dave (assuming there are no extenuating circumstances or details that you didn't mention), mears has you covered for the full amount you're out of pocket, including the evaluation fee according to mears' "100% purchase protection guarantee" - there's nothing at all ambiguous about mears' protection guarantee:

"The Buyer Protection Program is one of the fundamental guiding principles upon which MEARS was founded. We realize that collectors are looking for quality, certainty, and security when it comes to buying and selling memorabilia for their collections. Since our inception, MEARS has operated under the guidelines that if you purchased an item that MEARS evaluated and it was later proven to be something other than what MEARS claimed, MEARS would guarantee that you, as the purchaser, were not out of pocket for the expense of that purchase."

further, the guy you purchased the item from became moot the moment mears stepped in for a fee, told you it was an a9, and guaranteed there findings. in short dave, mears assumed full financial responsibility for the item when you went through with the purchase based on mears' fee-based expert opinion, according to the terms of their published guarantee. mears clearly states that they are able to guarantee their expert opinions because:

"The key to our ability to offer this guarantee and these services is the use of our worksheets and grading concepts. MEARS goes to great lengths to evaluate and grade all items with consistent accuracy..."

in fact, according to a fairly recent mears post at the net54baseball forum, mears is working with the consignor of the 1938 gehrig jersey in the current rea auction because he originally purchased the jersey based on a mears a9 grade (and guarantee i assume), which was later lowered by mears to an a5, then upped to an a7. according to mears' post, the consignor feels that the downgrade in evaluation score will cause him out of pocket loss. sounds similar to your situation.

I am going to email Troy and ask them if they wil reconsider my request for a refund of the $2,800 based on how the purchase protection guarantee reads (which I think I fit the criteria). They did agree to refund the authentication cost associated with the jersey, but not refund the money I was out under their purchase protection program...I will let you know what they say.

Dave