6 charged with fraud

[jhunt28]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

how is that? They justify their prices by offering 100% legit jerseys now that its not the case, those jerseys,imo, aren't worth what they were.

Why is it "not the case" anymore? This is getting insane...not a single person on this thread has brought any photographic, or tangible evidence that something that they had purchased from JO Sports was not authentic. These charges are stemming from an incident, in which NO ONE knows the details of, and was before JO even had a website.

[cubbs1232]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

That's ridiculous.

how is that? They justify their prices by offering 100% legit jerseys now that its not the case, those jerseys,imo, aren't worth what they were.

[34swtns]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

I wonder, so if we have recently purchased from JO, does that mean we get our money back for falsifying information?

That's ridiculous.

[gingi79]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Obviously, not everything JO sells is fake. I have seen plenty of authentic photomatched jerseys for sale on their site.

The issue is (As I read it at least): The FBI has proof JO sold jerseys with manufactured wear. (According to the notes in this thread and the articles in national newspapers) If this is so, your company is now hanging out in the Lou Lampson side of the pool.

Whether it is one jersey or 500, it is the same thing to many collectors. Once you take a shirt and knowingly misrepresent it, collectors will abandon your company in droves. You lose integrity, you lose respect and in a hobby as tight knit as ours, it isn't something that just goes away. Even Lou Lampson was right on some jerseys.

MeiGray's business model is untouchable. People may not agree with their prices or feel they had some influence on sets or wear or other sour grapes but I have NEVER heard of a fake or added wear jersey coming from them. They are transparent, provide access to every single tag number on their website without having to contact the company and give details on wear dates. The few times people have had issue, MeiGray did right by them at Barry's expense.

My last note on pricing. JO takes flak for the $20k Sanchez and the low end jerseys starting higher than the hobby feels is sane. The Oven-Chicken example with MeiGray just illustrates how different the high ends in hockey are versus football. MeiGray sold 40 JERSEYS at $7500. That means the price scale is in collector norms. Others may think it is high but the market begs to differ.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Freddie,

I did not say your comments were inappropriate, I said I was not sure if you were being facetious ... meaning I was not sure if you meant it literally, or were typing with tongue in cheek.

Barry

Just tongue in cheek. No hard feelings here, I trust your integrity.

I always thought facetious meant inappropriate jesting.

[project 4]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

I wonder, so if we have recently purchased from JO, does that mean we get our money back for falsifying information?

[BarryMeisel]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Freddie,

I did not say your comments were inappropriate, I said I was not sure if you were being facetious ... meaning I was not sure if you meant it literally, or were typing with tongue in cheek.

Barry

[jhunt28]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Seems like there's a lot of "piling on" happening in this thread.....before any determination of guilt or innocence has even been made.

I've done business with JO Sports for over 2 years now and have never encountered any issues regarding authenticity whatsoever. Quite the contrary, I can generally photomatch any item from their inventory that I'm interested in long before any purchase is made.

Robert Kovacs has been my JO representative from the beginning and is a study in courtesy and professionalism. So, while others may seem to want to rush to judgement, I have nothing but positive things to say about a company that has been instrumental in the building of my Bears collection and are largely responsible for its contents today.

Finally, someone from the other side of the fence. It's great to have you here, it's lonely on this end!! I have been reading this entire thread, and I'm starting to lose sight of reality. I have also read somewhere in here that someone is now skeptical of photomatches, because they think that JO is now using photomatching sites to doctor jerseys???

I mean seriously...do some of you think that JO Sports Co receives boxes of game issued jerseys, and then proceeds to have a team of runners wear them to get them sweaty and smelly? And then have a group of people put on those same jerseys to go play football in the backyard, to give them ball marks, hit marks, grass, mud, and turf stains? Then once the game is over, everyone takes their "fabricated" game issued jerseys to a group of seamstresses who manufacture team repairs, and also add any further customizations for each specific player on the roster?

Clearly I'm being cynical...but do some of you really think that 100% of what is sold on the JO Sports website is fake?? And do you think that every equipment manager from each NFL team they have a contract with is in on the scam too? Seems like a hell of a lot of work in order to turn some game issued jerseys into game worn, no???

And does anyone even know the details of this case? Can anyone speak intelligently as to JO's involvment in this case? All that I have seen are people making insane accusations about how everything JO sells is fake, and that people don't put any faith in team LOA/COA's, or photomatches.

Let's use this example: Person A knows someone at a Card Company (Person C) who wants to buy a game worn jeresey in order to cut into pieces. Person B knows how to get in touch with Person C at the Card Company. Person A uses Person B as a middle man, and Person C at the Card Company gets what they think is a game worn jersey, cut it up into pieces and put into baseball cards. The jersey coming from Person A was a retail or game issued jersey. Person C thought it was game used. Person C cuts the jersey into pieces and sells is as a game worn insert. This scenario is entirely possible...but it doesn't seem to me like everything person B now touches should be considered fake, does it?

Just a few thoughts...now let the abuse begin!!!

[BrianK]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

I'm hoping for a fire sale at JO.

Some of the NFL's member clubs may have been wise enough to get clauses in their contracts with JO Sports which will void their contracts under certain circumstances. But, by and large, there was intelligence (not speaking to integrity) in market pricing dynamics built into the distribution model in so much that JO assured themselves monopolistic pricing power in their team contracts. Sure, some items still would make it to NFL auctions (where traffic/demand far outpaced limited supply) but JO appeared to have eliminated other retail distribution.

So, now, NFL member organizations which failed to do their DD on JO Sports now will find their options limited to the clauses they got into the deals they signed. In some cases, the fans who have in recent times been adversely affected by JO's virtual monopoly will still find themselves forced to either deal with JO, or wait out the contracts' expiration.

At the end of the day, the NFL's member organizations should have been less focused on the benefits of the enhanced revenues that derived from JO's virtual monopoly on distribution, and more focused on the ultimate risk of marrying their brand to JO's. I'm not suggesting teams should have anticipated this particular bad outcome, but they certainly could have anticipated the array of potential bad outcomes and considered that there were no grassroots benefit to their franchises in marrying their brands to JO.

We can all observe the Pittsburgh Steelers weren't quick to jump on the "lets push it throuh JO" bandwagon. One of the best and smartest brands in the NFL. Maybe too conservative, but great risk-management.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

SaintGeaux,

FreddieFreeman5, I am not sure if you are being facetious ... but I will promise you that it is easy to give a lifetime guarantee when you are 100% sure the items you sell are 100% legitimate.

Lifetime means the life of the item, and the life of the company as long as I am in charge.

I don't think my comments were inappropiate so no I was not being facetious.
I did think the Snoopy comment was funny though.

[SaintsGeaux]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Barry, very impressive. I think the other lesson is don't bite off more than you can chew. Company growth like yours is so dependent on you and the people you hire and train.

[trsent]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

I can't promise what will happen after I die, except that there will be one MeiGray Registrated Item, MGS No. 100001, a game-worn jersey from my personal collection, that's going in my coffin (1994 NY Rangers Stanley Cup Finals Game 7 Craig MacTavish, but that's another story).

Respectfully,

Barry

Barry, where will you be laid to rest again?

[BarryMeisel]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

SaintGeaux,

I can assure that MeiGray will never compromise its ethics for profits. In fact, I created MeiGray in 1997 because I saw a void in the industry.

My mantra to the first teams with which I signed contracts in 1997-98 (New York Rangers, New York Giants, New Jersey Devils) was that there was a growing game-worn jersey industry desperately in need of a company licensed and endorsed by the teams ... to protect the collectors who were spending good money from items that were not being properly authenticated, or were outright fakes.

I insisted on contractual agreements and letters from the teams for public display confirming these agreements.

I insisted on an authentication system that allowed us to check the items we were selling on behalf of the teams, before we put them out for sale, with the team's letter of authenticity behind them. We knew there was a difference between game worn and game issued. We didn't expect the teams to understand. We felt it was our job, in this role we were undertaking, to do right by collectors by distinguishing game issues from game worns coming out of the locker rooms.

And when I introduced our company, I made it clear (and still believe this today), that we will earn the profits we deserve by serving the collecting community efficiently, with the respect they deserved. And it didn't matter if they were buying a $100 game-issued jersey or a $7,500 Ovechkin.

Our pricing reflects our desire to make a fair profit (no different than any business in our capitalist system) by providing a necessary service and accurately reflecting the game-worn jersey market.

If we did not accurately price our jerseys, we would not be selling enough to make a profit. But since 1997 I have established the MeiGray strategy and steadfastly maintained that we can be successful by providing accurate pricing in the market, and providing an unparalleled level of absolute authenticity.

That is our promise to the hobby, and it an uncompromised promise we have made since 1997.

FreddieFreeman5, I am not sure if you are being facetious ... but I will promise you that it is easy to give a lifetime guarantee when you are 100% sure the items you sell are 100% legitimate.

Lifetime means the life of the item, and the life of the company as long as I am in charge.

I can't promise what will happen after I die, except that there will be one MeiGray Registrated Item, MGS No. 100001, a game-worn jersey from my personal collection, that's going in my coffin (1994 NY Rangers Stanley Cup Finals Game 7 Craig MacTavish, but that's another story).

Respectfully,

Barry

[SaintsGeaux]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

I meant to say provenance, a photo match and maybe a signed LOA from the athlete like LockerRoomMemorabilia used to do with the athlete holding the item.

[SaintsGeaux]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

So are you saying that the Bears Team LOA that each game used jersey is accompanied with is no good??? That is the case with those jersey's as well as other teams!!! You dont need a JO LOA to feel good if you dont want, a team LOA from the Chicago Bears, signed personally by Tony Medlin the head Equipment manager that has been with the team for many years, is that rock solid provenance enough for you??? Just saying...

I know nothing about the Bears. LOAs are paper. I want provenance.

Look no further to a few years ago when the Brett Favre jersey problems came to light. People freaked out who owned them.

When a company you have bought from is named like JO, darn right collectors should be shaking in their boots!