Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

**David** · 11-23-2011, 03:34 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

One can argue about ethics, or value, or Bears collecting or photomatching or whatever, but material that is known to come from JO will have less value on the market. You can think that's fair or unfair or you don't think that way or you think that's unjustified, but invariably many buyers will not pay as much for a jersey from someone who has been convicted of fraud in the selling of game used. Many will refuse to bid on an item at all. That's just the way it will be, and you're dillusional if you think otherwise. Market value, re-sale value isn't just what you or I in our ivory towers chat boards think of this or that, but how others bidders and buyers value the material.

**David** · 11-23-2011, 03:39 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

And I'd say to the Bears fan, the market value IS based on what others think-- and what are they willing to pay. So, now or later, it does effect your own personal pocketbook what others think of material purchased through JO.

**Preston** · 11-23-2011, 03:45 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

"Originally Posted by 34swtns
I know for a concrete fact the vast majority of you have never done a nickel's worth of business with JO Sports."

Speaking of laughable...

I've personally purchased three "game used" jerseys from JO - one was a Carlos Rogers "photomatched" to a November 2008 game v. the Steelers (I have since sold this one to make room for new purchases), one is a Daunte Culpepper from 2004 with NO wear (they swear it's game used but I knew it was issued - but for the price and "name value" of the player I couldn't pass it up), and one is a Terdell Sands Raiders game worn jersey w/ actual hit marks and repairs (seeing as Terdell is by no means anything remotely close to a star, I'd like to believe that the alterations are legit - why commit fraud with the Terdell Sands of the world when you can sell fake Tim Tebow gamers and countless other fake stars?)

Have I purchased something from them? YES

Am I concerned that they've been busted for altering/faking/committing FRAUD - WHICH IS A FEDERAL OFFENSE? YES

Do I think the game used world would be better with them OUT of the picture
and NFL teams marketing their OWN game used stuff? YES

Would I purchase anything else FROM JO? NOPE, unless I could document/photomatch/etc and the price was right b/c a JO COA now carries the same stigma and "worth" as a Lou Lampson letter (and we KNOW how highly regarded HE is)

**SaintsGeaux** · 11-23-2011, 03:49 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Originally posted by allstarsplus

Interesting statement. How can you possibly know that? Do you work for JO Sports?

Mr. Lang, for that statement of his to be true he would need personal access to JO's customer list and the true identities of GUU members in order to crosscheck. As a moderator, do you have knowledge through the GUU relationship with JO, was JO provided with the GUU mailing lists and user names as that would tell one through a database crosscheck who is a customer or not.

This is getting more troubling to think a criminal element may have access to our registration and personal information.

Please respond, thank you.

**ChrisCavalier** · 11-23-2011, 04:08 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Originally posted by SaintsGeaux

Mr. Lang, for that statement of his to be true he would need personal access to JO's customer list and the true identities of GUU members in order to crosscheck. As a moderator, do you have knowledge through the GUU relationship with JO, was JO provided with the GUU mailing lists and user names as that would tell one through a database crosscheck who is a customer or not.

This is getting more troubling to think a criminal element may have access to our registration and personal information.

Please respond, thank you.

No, nobody has any access to any of the names in the GUU database.

This thread, like its predecessors, is beginning to serve no purpose but for people to try to create conspiracy theories regarding things that do not exist.

This is the last time I will make this statement, if this thread is not used to try to serve as something beneficial to the hobby it will be closed.

-Chris

**SaintsGeaux** · 11-23-2011, 04:29 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Originally posted by ChrisCavalier

No, nobody has any access to any of the names in the GUU database.

This thread, like its predecessors, is beginning to serve no purpose but for people to try to create conspiracy theories regarding things that do not exist.

This is the last time I will make this statement, if this thread is not used to try to serve as something beneficial to the hobby it will be closed.

-Chris

Mr. Cavalier, thank you for the response. You say no access to the names in the database, do they have the email addresses? Based on 34swtns concrete factual information, there must be a way he has crosschecked your GUU database.

As the owner of this site, if this doesn't trouble you, I will drop my concerns. I am the type that "opts out" and is on the DoNotCall lists for privacy purposes.

**ChrisCavalier** · 11-23-2011, 04:34 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Originally posted by SaintsGeaux

Mr. Cavalier, thank you for the response. You say no access to the names in the database, do they have the email addresses? Based on 34swtns concrete factual information, there must be a way he has crosschecked your GUU database.

As the owner of this site, if this doesn't trouble you, I will drop my concerns. I am the type that "opts out" and is on the DoNotCall lists for privacy purposes.

No, no one has access to the email addresses either.

I do not know about 34swtns' claims about knowing facts but I can tell you he doesn't have any information coming from GUU. I am guessing he may know some of the posters directly as the basis for his claims. However, I can assure you he has no information from us.

-Chris

**SaintsGeaux** · 11-23-2011, 04:50 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Originally posted by ChrisCavalier

No, no one has access to the email addresses either.

I do not know about 34swtns' claims about knowing facts but I can tell you he doesn't have any information coming from GUU. I am guessing he may know some of the posters directly as the basis for his claims. However, I can assure you he has no information from us.

-Chris

Your honesty and transparency on this matter is appreciated. I've purchased from JO and clearly others have and unfortunately have to agree with David in Post #78 including how I now perceive my own collection.

**matt** · 11-23-2011, 04:53 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

I come to praise Chris C, not to bury him. I have been on this forum for many years, and have learned a HUGE amount from it.

Someone posted a while ago that

"No one gets up in the morning trying to figure out a way to better the hobby. Everyone just wants to better their collection."

Actually, one guy did do that when Chris took on the responsibility to run this forum. Now maybe I am missing something, but I have never paid much money to be on this forum, and I don't think that many of you have paid much money to be on here. I do not think he is making a ton of money off this forum or is engaging in some suspicious partnering with companies like JO Sports. I respect him for trying to create an actual business in various ways without losing integrity.

So why do folks jump on him as if he is a media mogul power broker like Rupert Murdoch every time something interesting happens, looking for a diabolical plot, retribution or vindication. The guy is giving us all a place we can discuss the hobby we love FOR FREE if we want. If he decides it is time to ban someone, he has every right, and the opposite is also true.

To me, the whole point of the forum is that we all know how murky all this hobby is, and this is a place to sort out the good from the bad together and learn. Let's get back to that and thank Chris for what he has done for the hobby.

And no, I am not Chris's friend, business associate or anything else. Just a member like you.

Matt Miller

**masp3392** · 11-23-2011, 07:20 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

TIFWIW ... I was told by a associate from JO sports that there will be a new company that is buying out JO and part of the agreement is that all merchandise must be certified directly from the team.

Names will be kept private, just passing along info

**frikativ54** · 11-23-2011, 08:00 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Originally posted by masp3392

TIFWIW ... I was told by a associate from JO sports that there will be a new company that is buying out JO and part of the agreement is that all merchandise must be certified directly from the team.

Names will be kept private, just passing along info

Interesting development, if true.

**both-teams-played-hard** · 11-23-2011, 08:21 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Would I purchase anything else FROM JO? NOPE, unless I could document/photomatch/etc and the price was right b/c a JO COA now carries the same stigma and "worth" as a Lou Lampson letter (and we KNOW how highly regarded HE is)

In all fairness, Lampson offers a "letter of opinion" and has never been charged with a federal case. I don't know of any questions that Lampson has personally altered a piece or added wear. I think it is truly unfair to group Lou Lampson along with some admitted felons.

**schubert1970** · 11-23-2011, 08:31 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Originally posted by both-teams-played-hard

In all fairness, Lampson offers a "letter of opinion" and has never been charged with a federal case. I don't know of any questions that Lampson has personally altered a piece or added wear. I think it is truly unfair to group Lou Lampson along with some admitted felons.

You're correct. Lou's LOA is more valuable than JO's. That really makes my point. Who would have ever thought. Thanks!

**SkubeBats** · 11-23-2011, 10:43 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

I'm just glad that the FBI is standing up for us and busting the guys doing our hobby wrong. THANK YOU!!

I also want to say that I'm glad to see that Chris has made sure that none of these guys will be able to be members or be able to post on here anymore.

Just remember to do your home work before you buy any item. You just never know.

**Eric** · 11-23-2011, 10:51 PM

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Interesting note in the Cardboard Connection's coverage of the story

"When the story first broke, Brian Gray, owner of Leaf, left a comment on the Cardboard Connection's Facebook page saying that he had never bought from any of the men charged."

Page not found – The Cardboard Connection

http://www.cardboardconnection.com/news/plead-guilty-fake-sports-memorabilia

Can be found here

Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment