Photomatching JO Jerseys Related Issues

[mickeymbz]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

I understand, go grab a white shirt and a hunk of grass and dirt. Its not hard at all.

BS

[nycpropain]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

BS

So you have tried? Or is this based on nothing? In case you missed this topic you are posting in but the head of JO plead guilty to doing this. So apparently its not as off base as you seem to think.

[Dewey2007]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

I think the difference is the card companies were not trying to photomatch these jerseys like individual collectors do. They just want them to cut up into little pieces. It sounds like they were buying them based on the assumption that they were game worn. It's probably easy to manufacture some fake game wear on some jerseys especially if there is no quality control on their end and you mix them in with some real ones.

To put exactly matching hit marks, rips, team repairs, etc. on a blank football jersey, while not saying it's impossible, would take such painstaking attention to detail that it would not even be worth it IMO especially if you are trying to do this to multiple jerseys. Can you imagine trying to do this to a Darren McFadden or Adrian Peterson jersey? Have you seen how trashed their jerseys are after games. That's about as close to impossible as it would get.

It would be interesting to see someone try to do this. Is there a tv show out there that takes on these kind of challenges?

So you have tried? Or is this based on nothing? In case you missed this topic you are posting in but the head of JO plead guilty to doing this. So apparently its not as off base as you seem to think.

[mickeymbz]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

So you have tried? Or is this based on nothing? In case you missed this topic you are posting in but the head of JO plead guilty to doing this. So apparently its not as off base as you seem to think.

you THINK you can pull it off..but compared to high res photo NO friggn way... you can put your little grass and dirt stains here and there...but NO way you gonna match up mesh holes locations..which IMo are the fingerprint of each shirt. no way u can match those up. and it is WAY off base... collectors/buyers may not be as naive as you

[masp3392]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

I understand, go grab a white shirt and a hunk of grass and dirt. Its not hard at all.

wow, im going to have to let this one go

[gingi79]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

you THINK you can pull it off..but compared to high res photo NO friggn way... you can put your little grass and dirt stains here and there...but NO way you gonna match up mesh holes locations..which IMo are the fingerprint of each shirt. no way u can match those up. and it is WAY off base... collectors/buyers may not be as naive as you

It has been my experience that there is a big difference between hearing and listening when it comes to dispelling the authenticity of their item.

People need very little convincing to see what they want to see. Other collectors much wiser than I have already stated how even knowledgeable collectors will be able to see wear and matches that the rest of us disagree exist. Let us not forget, this site is full of people with background and experience in research and photo matching. We know of websites and have each other (Kyle for example re: Braves at home and any opponent they play at The Ted) The average fan doesn't have these resources at hand.

And let's not forget how many people think a photo match means any photo from a game that some paperwork claims it comes from......

[David]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

In the future will be forged/altered 'photo match' photos. You can count on it. You can do a lot with photo shop.

[David]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

A current popular theory is you can't fake photo-matched dirt and wear, because it won't match up exactly to the photo. The problem with that theory being it doesn't take into account the genuine possibility that a forger might be manufacturing both the dirt and grass states on the jersey and the dirt and grass stains in the photo.

[David]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

P.s., I am one hundred percent certain that there will be a future case of a doctored photo-match photo. It's inevitable in this hobby.

[mickeymbz]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

A current popular theory is you can't fake photo-matched dirt and wear, because it won't match up exactly to the photo. The problem with that theory being it doesn't take into account the genuine possibility that a forger might be manufacturing both the dirt and grass states on the jersey and the dirt and grass stains in the photo.

again ,,, as stated previously...you can place your grass/dirt stains here and there...but they (forger) are NOT going to conclusively forge matching aligned mesh hole locations ...to a matching high res GETTY/AP etc photo..... doesnt take a brain surgeon to depend on a high res photo from a reliable source. a pic provided by the so-called forger and its acceptance by the buyer is fool hardy at best,,,,and would be as one stated here..as GOOD as a lampson LOA. obviously this is going to take homework on behalf of the purchaser,,,and obviously this will be a task without jersey in hand

[mickeymbz]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Exactly.. Sure I purchased 2 JO game worn jerseys from last season, and both can easily be photomatched to the 2 games the players played in. If I was to sell them right now to an actual memorabilia collector that even knows about the whole JO situation, sure I'm pretty sure I would not get anywhere close to what I paid for them. To the "average Joe" collector, they wouldn't even know. But does it matter? Like we always keep saying, a jersey is worth what someone will pay for it, regardless of where it originated from.

Am I upset at what happened, sure I am! No doubt about it. I'm not defending any actions committed by JOSports in this situation. But I know my jerseys are good and to the 'Saints' guy who keeps saying NFL jerseys are so easy to apply fake grass/dirt stains, sure no doubt about it. BUT, can anyone duplicate the EXACT grass/dirt stains to the EXACT same location and EXACT same color depth, no f-ing way. I don't care who you are, it is impossible. Without actual game photomatching and Getty/AP images to help my jerseys, sure, anything would be possible to fake. However, I feel 100% comfortable that my jerseys are 100% authentic, game worn and I will probably keep them for a very long time and that's all that matters to me

EXACTLY..... this post hits the nail on the head!! "w/o actual game photomatching and GETTY/AP images....." the source of the photo is obviously the key important part of the equation. trusting a pic from unkown source vs getty/ap pic is akin to trusting lampson loa vs meigray loa.......... not that im an loa guy. just saying

[trsent]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Are you folks really debating photoshoping photos to show game use?

Wow, shouldn't that be a new thread? What does that have to do with the original topic?

[mickeymbz]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

Are you folks really debating photoshoping photos to show game use?

Wow, shouldn't that be a new thread? What does that have to do with the original topic?

Tell that to the poster who took a post about how JO could EASILY duplicate/replicate dirt/grass stains (absurd) found in photos of athletes to the fact that this goes hand in hand with photoshopped pics to match altered pieces.....

The fact that there is accusation as to "how" JO committed these crimes seems to be "on" the topic

but your condescending tude is appreciated (not)

[Tyrcha]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

This will be my ONLY post on this topic. EVERYTHING I've ever purchased from JO I've been able to photo match. Also, between high school, college, Arena and semi pro I've been a playing football going on 20 years. To go with that I am also a professional graphic/web designer. I can tell you with 99.9% accuaracy that all of my jerseys from JO have been photo matched without any sort of photoshopping from any party. The Bears items I have purchased, in my opinion, are 100% legit.

In my humble opinion, it's time for this thread to be shut down by Chris. All this thread has turned into is a smear campaign against JO Sports Co. At this point there's nothing constructive coming out of this thread. It's time to absoreb what's happend, internalize it and move on. Lets be honest, unless you got your jersey from the actual player who wore it...how do you really know if it's legit or not? Be educated on what you're purchasing.

[commando]

Re: Gernay, Oldridge, Horne Plead Guilty

This and other related threads are quite the study in human nature. More specifically, I am referring to the "knee-jerk" reactions many people seem to have when something big happens. And yes, I do think the J.O./dirty six thing is very big.

With that being said, you see this kind of thinking happen over and over in the financial markets: What? CEO John Doe may have to resign because he lied on his taxes? CALL THE BROKER AND SELL, SELL, SELL! What? Apple's earnings are eight cents below projections this quarter? CALL THE BROKER AND SELL, SELL, SELL! What? The numbers have been audited and it appears that the accountant pocketed a few thousand dollars? SELL, SELL, SELL!!!

To be fair, of course it is possible that J.O. Sports sold bad (or sloppily documented) stuff. I'm not defending anyone in that regard. All I am saying is that when you start talking about forged photo matches from companies that had direct team contracts, you might want to find at least one example before you start spreading the panic. Most card companies were apparently not concerned with photo matches, but were depending on the reputations of the sellers. As has been stated before, there is a big difference between selling to a card company versus selling to a collector who will leave the jersey in one piece -- and will be probably concerned with dates, stains and loose threads.

Once again, this post is not meant to defend anyone. I'm simply looking at how certain people -- whether an investor or collector -- tend to overreact when events happen. A large, quick drop in the price of a stock due to a short-term event usually signals a good time to buy. I'll say the same thing here; if anyone wants to sell me their J.O. jerseys for 20% the price they originally paid, feel free to shoot me an email.