Vintage vs Modern Debate

[invintagewetrust]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

Collecting anything vintage requires a encyclopedic knowledge of variations in both style and how a company tagged a specific garment, plate, chair or what ever you collect. In most cases the knowledge is passed down from collector to collector. Collecting and buying legitimate modern day garments in any facet of collecting is much easier as most of the companies that make them are still in business, and for the most part there is an abundance of info on the web.

I frequently buy vintage for considerable coin, not because they were worn by a fantastic player, but because, well in a lot of cases they really don't exist. A lot of the posts in this thread have been dead on. In some cases there might only be 2-3 examples in circulation of a particular style of jersey. The world of vintage jersey collecting also borders on people outside of the game used community and taps into people that collect vintage clothing, era specific garments from a city, etc.

The debate on why an older shirt worn by a no name player would fetch the same money as a star player with deadbolt provenance is really all in the eye of the beholder. I can't believe in most cases why anyone would spend a quarter of what a modern shirt would go for. Depending on how long a player has been in the league, there might be as many as 25-30 shirts of the SAME PLAYER in circulation.

I think another factor which makes vintage jerseys and memorabilia in general intriguing is that these garments are obviously not made the same way, and in some cases the companies that originally made these items have destroyed the machines or in some cases the mills that sold them the yards for the original shirts are long gone. When you hold an item like that in your hands, its definitely special.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

One of my favorites. 1965 Seattle Chieftains, Charlie Williams. Not a warm-up, but a short-sleeved game jersey. Williams was involved in a point shaving scandal. He was found to be not guilty, but was banned for life from the NBA. He had a very good career in the ABA. This may have been the last jersey he wore at SU, before he was expelled. Nylon/durene cotton blend knit with piped trim:

[gingi79]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

I agree it's all about perspective and what means the most to you. I personally would take a vintage common that's photomatched over a superstar jersey of the modern age.

I always use Sidney Crosby and Gordie Howe as an example in this debate. Let's say Crosby lives up the hype and surpasses Howe and Gretzky's records. If he plays 15 seasons he will wear roughly 12 jerseys a season. That means there will be 180 game worns of his in the hobby and nearly all of them will be accessible to collectors. Originally, Crosby's jerseys sold for $25k and for that price you could obtain one of Howe or Gretzky's jerseys. Since 1994, I can only recall maybe 5 of their jerseys combined that were made available for sale at auctions.

Sure, the odds are that you could photomatch a Crosby even though they have normally light wear. However, there will be 160 nearly identical jerseys to yours. How many Gretzky's will there be at that point? How many Howe's? Not to mention every one of them is just destroyed with use which, as we know, dictates higher prices than one with less wear.

Another glowing example since many of us came from the baseball card hobby before this one. Honus Wagner's T-206 card is worth so much money because of how rare it is. There are like 12 in the world if I remember correctly. As time goes on, the Wagner will retain it's value and become more rare while players with better numbers and are more recognized by modern fans will be worthless by comparison.

Of course I am still holding out hope that my Brien Taylor card will become priceless again.

[G1X]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

flaco,
Well said, especially your last two comments (the last one in particular).

Jim,
Great display! Some awesome helmets and jerseys on that wall.

Nothing against modern jerseys as I have some in my collection. However, I personally feel that the prices of the newer stuff can be a bit overwhelming, especially football jerseys. That's a whole different topic for another day, so I won't hijack this great thread with that discussion.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League jerseys, AFL/NFL durene jerseys, Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

[flaco1801]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

these modern shirts will never attain the value of vintage shirts... there are just too many produced... hundreds of game issued will become game used after just a few washings... the majority of players (prior to 1980) didnt even keep any for themselves, they were shipped in bulk to the bushes to be worn to shreds...finding these "vintage" shirts with all their character is what makes a sport of this hobby...i remember when set 3 were mainly issed to catchers who regularly abused their equiptment more than position players...what it boils down to, is people collect their own time frame, you cant make the younger fans like what we saw 30 years ago... collect what you like and dont expect to make money, just collect for the love of the game...

[Gridiron Heroes]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

I'm w/ the vitange crowd. Fortunately for me, most of the former Minnesota Gophers I collect are/were "common" players in the NFL. I'm w/ Mark on the durene jerseys too. Those are sweet! And I'll take a vintage helmet over a modern helmet any day of the week.

Shawn Kennedy
GopherJerseys.com
GiridironHeroes.net
gridironheroes22@yahoo.com

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

Ah - its good to be out - LOL

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[camarokids]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

I've recently sold a bunch of my modern jerseys, but I'll never be able to part with my vintage stuff since it's just impossible to find replacements. No jersey today compares with the feel and look of a vintage flannel.

Nice looking jerseys and display!!!!!

[Dewey2007]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

Hey Smitty,

Yeah, I wouldn't consider 1991 vintage but starting around the mid 70's sounds about right. Others might disagree but I know different hobbies have different qualifications for this type of thing so I thought I'd throw it out there. I guess we'll have to wait another 10-15 years for 1991 to be considered vintage!!

The reason I mentioned the 20 year example is there is an antiques fair here where I live and I remember that sellers cannot sell anything that is less then 20 years old. They even have people walking around checking items. Once when I went, I distinctly remember a guy told someone to put away some Toy Story dolls because they didn't meet the age requirement.

Dewey -

20 years would put you at 1991 and I would imagine not too many people here consider the 80's and early 90's 'vintage' - except maybe some of our younger collector's...

Anyway, I use the same yardstick that is used in the card collecting side of the hobby - roughly 1976/77 and early is considered vintage.

As far as the Original Topic of this thread - I too prefer vintage and am slowly moving out my modern stuff for vintage...

I will still keep a few key modern pieces:

Jason Giambi 2009 Rockies Uni - photo matched to 1st game w/ Rox AND his 1st card ina Rox Uni.

Eric Young Jr 2009 Rockies Uni - photomatched to 1st (and still ONLY) MLB HR at bat (I recovered that HR - my 1st as well).

As far as REAL vintage - I can't afford GU of many of the stars I like, so I am slowly building a nice Mitchell & Ness Collection - signed if possible - of the 'flannel' jerseys. They still display very nicely.

All the best -

Smitty

[karamaxjoe]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

I've recently sold a bunch of my modern jerseys, but I'll never be able to part with my vintage stuff since it's just impossible to find replacements. No jersey today compares with the feel and look of a vintage flannel.

[xpress34]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

I'm always unsure too of what the official measuring stick is for something to be considered vintage. Is it something that is 20 years old or more?

Dewey -

20 years would put you at 1991 and I would imagine not too many people here consider the 80's and early 90's 'vintage' - except maybe some of our younger collector's...

Anyway, I use the same yardstick that is used in the card collecting side of the hobby - roughly 1976/77 and early is considered vintage.

As far as the Original Topic of this thread - I too prefer vintage and am slowly moving out my modern stuff for vintage...

I will still keep a few key modern pieces:

Jason Giambi 2009 Rockies Uni - photo matched to 1st game w/ Rox AND his 1st card ina Rox Uni.

Eric Young Jr 2009 Rockies Uni - photomatched to 1st (and still ONLY) MLB HR at bat (I recovered that HR - my 1st as well).

As far as REAL vintage - I can't afford GU of many of the stars I like, so I am slowly building a nice Mitchell & Ness Collection - signed if possible - of the 'flannel' jerseys. They still display very nicely.

All the best -

Smitty

[G1X]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

Great thread! I mainly collect football jerseys, and nothing beats a durene jersey in my humble opinion. Whenever someone looks at my collection, they are drawn immediately to the durene jerseys.

I've included a few photos. Hope you enjoy!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for NFL/AFL durene jerseys, World Football League jerseys, Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

[Dewey2007]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

Great post topic. I think I fall into the vintage camp but with that said the majority of my collection is modern day just because they have been much easier for me to acquire. Vintage jerseys have so much more character though.

One of the few vintage jersey I have in my collection, a 1972 Chris Speier SF Giants flannel road jersey, is a favorite along with the two 1930s semi-pro baseball jerseys I acquired when I was a kid.

While cool to look at, I think the one thing that turns me off a little about possibly adding a vintage baseball jersey to my collection is so many of them have been restored or recycled through the minor leagues with number changes. Not much you can do about that though since that was the way it was done back in the day but it's just something that I have to try and look past when considering adding one to my collection since there are not to many originals left. I've held off on bidding on a couple because they had been restored by the owners which is different to me then if the team did it themselves.

I'm always unsure too of what the official measuring stick is for something to be considered vintage. Is it something that is 20 years old or more?

[mickeymbz]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

I'll take a common player jersey pre-1990 over a superstar modern day jersey any day...too may fakes and too may jerseys issued every year to justify the high prices realized....I would dare to say not too many people fake a common player jersey pre-1990....

the fake nba shirts started appearing regularly during 92/93..thanx to msauction

[misteremu]

Re: Vintage vs Modern Debate

I'll take a common player jersey pre-1990 over a superstar modern day jersey any day...too may fakes and too may jerseys issued every year to justify the high prices realized....I would dare to say not too many people fake a common player jersey pre-1990....