Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

[marino13]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

As I noted in some earlier thread, my pet peeve is dealers who don't keep their own records adequately when they buy the items. As a result, their own paperwork thereafter is meaningless. All it takes is one break in the provenance trail.

If MLB database somehow mess-up .... there go my game used collection!





99% of my MLB game used is MLB authenticated.

[David]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

Two points:

1) The initial post was titled "Loss of Paperwork" not items where there never was paperwork. Different topics.

2) At resale time, it' find and dandy and wonderful and fandidlytastic that you think paperwork is akin to the black plague and should be destroyed asap. I give three cheers, a brass plaque and a box of chocolate to you for your beliefs. But, despite your wonderful and heavenly beliefs, many to most of the bidders in your auction will desire paperwork. They may be stupid cretins who never graduated from the third grade and put on their pants backward, but they will still like paperwork for their $$. If you only sell or auction off to people who share your exact beliefs (even if these people are total numbskulls), you'll be throwing away money.

In short, you maybe 100% correct in your beliefs, but you'll still be throwing away money if you put those LOAs in the shredder. You have to face the facts that evil dullard paperwork lovers bid in auctions too. And they often have lots of money to bid too. If you want to turn away their money, that's your pick.

[David]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

The long and short of it is it's fine to have your beliefs and sentiments but don't assume that everyone will share your beliefs and sentiments. It may seem really dumb to you, but many buyers like paperwork. Why someone would shred their LOAs instead of keeping them so they can't attract those buyers is beyond me. Unless that someone has a desire for your items to auction for less.

If a buyer will pay $100 if I include a green napkin with the item, you know what? I'm going to include that green napkin. I don't even have to know why he wants a green napkin. I'm certainly not going to say "You can't have a green napkin. Keep your $100."

[David]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

The earlier point is good that LOAs can serve as provenance. The LOAs may not always be reliable in describing the item, but they do give a record where the item came from. That an old auction catalog or LOA show the bat is in the same state now as it was in a 1998 auction is no small detail, considering how many game used items have been altered for eBay in the last month and in the next month. Also, LOAs can say a bat came from a significant source, like a player's estate or team executive. There's no question this is relevant information to keep on record.

[David]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

If a bat can speak for itself, would that mean if it included a letter from the player stating it came from his personal collection, you would throw that that paperwork away? I assume you wouldn't. I also assume you'd keep the paperwork when it is an auction house LOA stating, in part, that the bat was consigned by the deceased player's family. These are instances where, I assume, everyone agrees the paperwork can provide valuable documentation.

[David]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

And, even if you don't need or like paperwork, I assume you can appreciate that potential bidders would wish for those documents included as part of the sale.

[David]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

One very last point. You or I may be experts in our collecting and/or dealing fields, but that doesn't mean all collectors are. For better or ill, many collectors are more casual and less learned, and value second or third opinions in the forms of LOAs. A Yankee fan may not be a game used bat expert, so he values one that comes with a Steiner LOA. You in all your brilliance and years of study and reams of game used data may not need the Steiner LOA, but he does. And there are far more buyers like him than you.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

I think David makes a valid point. In general, without a photo matchable piece, an LOA gives Joe Six Pack or Marty Mouthbreather a sense of security, deservedly or not, about the piece and therefore the LOA is potentially adding to the final hammer price if you are auctioning said piece in an open marketplace.

[coxfan]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

Regarding computer-only documentation such a database, it's good idea to print a copy of the database description. Then when you do your own research on the item and learn more about its history of use, such as going through the play-by-play or video record, you should add your own written notes to your printed copy of the database entry.

This can actually add provenance to the trail for the future, as well as protect yourself against any future database problem.

[marino13]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

Regarding computer-only documentation such a database, it's good idea to print a copy of the database description. Then when you do your own research on the item and learn more about its history of use, such as going through the play-by-play or video record, you should add your own written notes to your printed copy of the database entry.

This can actually add provenance to the trail for the future, as well as protect yourself against any future database problem.

No way I am printing out 100s of the MLB holograms.

Other collectors might have done this - I convert all the pending printouts to PDFs and save them.

Now when I need them, I can just go to my file folder and peek for info from there.

[G1X]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

David,

I don't think that very many collectors are intentionally tossing or shredding their paperwork. Speaking for myself, I am not a paper collector, but if I have paperwork, I pass it along when I sell or trade an item. I would assume that most do the same. If there are obvious errors in the paperwork, I point this out to the buyer.

One of the main points I was trying to convey in an earlier post is this: If there is a legitimate game-used item that is valued at $1,000, there are some of us who are willing to pay $1,000 for the item regardless of whether there is paper work. The lack of paper work neither de-values the item nor makes us walk away if we feel comfortable with the item being what it supposed to be. I think that most of us are well aware that others do not have the same comfort level for various reasons, and regardless of what any of us think about paper work, there is no "right" or "wrong" in how anyone chooses to set their parameters and comfort level.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[nevrdiez34]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

I created a binder with sheet protectors that contains every letter of authenticity or accompaning paperwork that I own so that I avoid losing an individual sheet or sheets that would lower the value of most items.

[joelsabi]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

Regarding computer-only documentation such a database, it's good idea to print a copy of the database description. Then when you do your own research on the item and learn more about its history of use, such as going through the play-by-play or video record, you should add your own written notes to your printed copy of the database entry.

This can actually add provenance to the trail for the future, as well as protect yourself against any future database problem.

if the database goes down permanently for any reason mlb would be forced to send out certificates to owners , after verification of the item in hand. mlb even says the printout are for display purposes only. if there is no online verification it would be a serious headache for collectors. a printout of the authentication would be for your own benefit but should mean nothing to another person when selling it. as a word of caution, the hologram number on the item should be verified online because everyone should know that a printout can be easily doctored using a photoshop type software.

and if you dont like how it display, why not just start from scratch and make it look or say how you want. here's the template.

[coxfan]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

Thanks for the useful observations from all of us. An MLB hologram's the only official authentication intended by MLB. But most of us enjoy finding out more about our items through more research, and many potential future owners might enjoy seeing this added info even if your notes are unofficial.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned at 63, but I still think paper's a valuable backup system that can't be erased or invaded by viruses or spyware.

[joelsabi]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

Thanks for the useful observations from all of us. An MLB hologram's the only official authentication intended by MLB. But most of us enjoy finding out more about our items through more research, and many potential future owners might enjoy seeing this added info even if your notes are unofficial.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned at 63, but I still think paper's a valuable backup system that can't be erased or invaded by viruses or spyware.

i must be oldschool too because i enjoy finding out more about the items i own or want to own. the unofficial uncovered notes are sometimes the best. there have been some nice post on the forum of uncovered information about a item after further investigation which the current owner did not realize. to me that is what make the hobby fun.