Am I Crazy???

[sammy]

Re: Am I Crazy???

Eric,

I believe it would be in the best interest of your fellow forum members and collectors in general if you would post the name of the auction company, or the name of the player you referred to in your posting.

Anyone else have this experience, please post the auction house names here. We need to make these people more honest, by the economics of not bidding or exposure.

If this happened on eBay, the seller would be kicked off, maybe, (Broadway Rick) or at the very least, his name would be circulated on here and elsewhere as a warning to others. Why should these thieves, yes they are thieves if it is shill bidding, be allowed to continue this with impunity?

I am very hesitate to bid in any auction where I can't see who I am bidding against, nationally known or local. When I do bid, I only place one opening minimum bid in the beginning and see where it is at in the end. That way I have a bid placed and can bid after the initial auction closes if I desire.

I'd be absolutely crazy to trust any of these auction houses to be honest, Robert Edward Auctions is the exclusion.

[otismalibu]

Re: Am I Crazy???

I've only ever bid on one auction site other than eBay. It was GFC. I kept checking online to see if anyone had outbid me, but it always said I was in the lead. I wasn't sure how often they updated the website during the auction, so I called in to make sure I hadn't been outbid. When I called to check, they said I'd been outbid, so I placed another bid. Again, I kept checking on the website, but no new info was posted. I called back again (later) and again they said I'd been outbid. I didn't like the feel of things, so I placed one final bid and told the guy I wouldn't be placing anymore. Of course I won with that bid. Since then, I stick to eBay.

Greg

[seven4five20]

Re: Am I Crazy???

I called AM today, and spoke with Kieta, I assume she is one of the higgher ups since I had asked to speak with Victor, and they directed me to her. I got the same old song and dance, "your check was sent out today" (about the fourth time), I then told her about the post, and how what little reputation they have si being challenged on this forum. I tld her about how the shill bidding has been observed....her tone dramatically changed. She said "we do not participate in those forums because we do not believe in the people who stand behind them"....basically a slap in the face to everyone who participates on this forum.

[martindl]

Re: Am I Crazy???

This stuff can drive you crazy and it certainly makes you wonder what might be going on what that 'man behind the curtain' but don't overlook the fact that we are generally a fairly educated bunch when it comes to pricing and value, as are others who bid in these auctions.

Eric, if you told me that the general market value/price of item A was $500, then i'd be very suspicious. If the general market value is much closer to your top bid, with vig, then i'm much more willing to accept that its just a case of a couple of people with simialr interests, and similar knowledge of value, going after the same thing - and you just got in there first.

i tend to bid low early on all items i'm interested in and then come back the day of the auction and put my 'i'll buy it for that bid'. I also collect certain players, so in the scenario you outlined, i could see where i'd put bids on items in quick succession and it bump to my limited. If you had already done the same thing and gotten there first, and we both had similar views on value, then i'd get shut out and you'd be left wondering why you got bid up.

I will say, i much prefer auctions where i can enter a straight amount versus having an amount picked for me.

[Eric]

Re: Am I Crazy???

I then told her about the post, and how what little reputation they have si being challenged on this forum. I tld her about how the shill bidding has been observed....her tone dramatically changed.

Whoa everyone. I have not mentioned that shill bidding was involved. I merely mentioned a pattern I thought was strange. And since there was no proof, I felt it wasn't fair to mention the auction house.

It wasn't right to tell American Memorabilia that they have been accused of shill bidding. If you go back and read the thread you'll see how the facts have been laid out.

I do have to edit one post in this thread which made the leap to naming AMI and making negative statements about them. It is important that we all deal with fact here and not assumptions.

Eric
moderator

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Am I Crazy???

Whoa everyone. I have not mentioned that shill bidding was involved. I merely mentioned a pattern I thought was strange. And since there was no proof, I felt it wasn't fair to mention the auction house.

It wasn't right to tell American Memorabilia that they have been accused of shill bidding. If you go back and read the thread you'll see how the facts have been laid out.

I couldn't agree more.

I think it is a misuse of the forum to jump to these type of conclusions without valid evidence.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

[trsent]

Re: Am I Crazy???

Yes, as usual, American Memorabilia gets picked on. I asked at the top of Page 2 of this topic which auction houses had auctions end last night. No one replied. I know there was Grey Flannel and AMI, was there any others?

[Eric]

Re: Am I Crazy???

Last night auctions ended at (in alphabetical order) American Memorabilia, Bricol, Grey Flannel (Day 1) and Mastronet

[stlbats]

Re: Am I Crazy???

Isn't it kind of funny that if it was another serious collector bidding the items up that they never bid high enough to get the high bid and win the item, just high enough to max out your top bid??

Jason

[stkmtimo]

Re: Am I Crazy???

Normally, I do not like to speak out on this issue but I feel compelled to do so. Most of the fine members of this forum are not ones who are known to make false and potentially slanderous statements when they could economically impact one's business. However, when do we, as collectors who make these businesses what they are step up and reveal who we believe are engaged in such actions like shill bidding? The only way shill bidding will stop and the only way we can get rid of the "bad apples" among the auction houses is to expose these crooks and frauds for being what they are - just that. If we simply skirt around the issue and become too worried about offending people, we are doing ourselves a great disservice. I realize that there are potential legal ramifications (beyond being offensive to somone) if someone makes accusatory statements not based in fact (and I applaud Eric for taking action during such events) but the real issue at hand is that we are being taken advantage of, and we are being screwed by certain entities within our hobby that feel the need to take advantage of their loyal clientele. This is absurd and it needs to stop.

Eric, when are we going to be allowed to name names? Please let us know what auction house you described in your initial post - you presented the proper evidence that you typically look for in other posts so I would think that a name of the entity potentially engaging in this type of practice should come next. Just my opinion.

Tim

[seven4five20]

Re: Am I Crazy???

I was not one to "pick on" AM. I was not one of those people until they owed me over $4,000 for three months, and they dodge every single quesion I have. In my experience, they are the worst auction house of all time. They dodge questions, dont pay on time, and, in my observations, they **POST EDITED- YOU CANNOT CLAIM "IN MY OBSERVATIONS..." UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY OBSERVED IT. LET'S DEAL IN FACT**. AM needs to get their money right, and get their policys and customer service straightened out.

[trsent]

Re: Am I Crazy???

I was not one to "pick on" AM.

...and I was not comming on your comments, so no harm, no foul.

[sammy]

Re: Am I Crazy???

Like the old saying goes: "Robbing Peter to pay Paul."

Don't feel bad if this is your first time dealing with them and you are waiting on payment pass 30 / 45 days, they have been doing this for years.

[whirl]

Re: Am I Crazy???

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that people aren't out to get you. I bid on and won items in both the AM and Grey Flannel auctions the past several days. I also bid and won several items in the Historic Auctions marathon. My experience was better. I posted maximum bids on three bats in the Historic Auction around 9:00 PM. When I checked the bids the next day only one had been raised and that was by $20. The other bids had not been raised, and I won the other two bats at $200 under my ceiling. I certainly can see that consignors would have a reason to drive up their own items and I understand the concerns of those who had to watch their bids being raised as the auction went on and on. In the AM auction I bid on and won two bats. Again I placed max bids one day before the end of the auction. There were no additional bids placed.
I was, however, surprised to see that they were going to charge me $45 to ship the bats by UPS. Maybe they will come by limo. Finally I won a multi-bat lot in the GF auction. I again placed my bid one day before the auction end won. No additional raises and at about one-third of my ceiling. As an aside I was quite surprised at the low prices that bats brought in these auctions. Even including the eye-popping premium they still brought less that some ebay auctions. Happy Holidays to all. Rex

[Eric]

Re: Am I Crazy???

I was not one to "pick on" AM. I was not one of those people until they owed me over $4,000 for three months, and they dodge every single quesion I have. In my experience, they are the worst auction house of all time. They dodge questions, dont pay on time, and, in my observations, they **POST EDITED- YOU CANNOT CLAIM "IN MY OBSERVATIONS..." UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY OBSERVED IT. LET'S DEAL IN FACT**. AM needs to get their money right, and get their policys and customer service straightened out.

Everyone-
It's one thing to be angry at poor customer service, but you cannot say "In my observations they are doing (insert illegal act here)" without actually observing it.

Please look at how this thread started. Something seemed odd with the bidding on two lots I was up for this week.
Since there is no irrefutable proof, it is responsible to keep the name private. If others had similar experiences they can back up with facts, then maybe we should reconsider. But as it is now, I am referring to 3 instances off bidding up to a maximum on two lots. If it happened to me on 10, 15 or 20 lots, then it would be a different story. That would be a documented pattern.

I remind you, we have a lot of influence on this site since we are the ones who spend the money with the auction houses. We cannot abuse this power. We must continue to have intelligent conversation based in fact.

Anything else and we lose our credibility.

Thanks
Eric