Ethical question

[cjw]

Re: Ethical question

I understand your thoughts on this and I am inclined to lay all the facts out, but in doing so, will accuse an auction house of forgery with only my word as back up.

[CollectGU]

Re: Ethical question

Why don't you simply lay out the facts as I mentioned earlier and let the forum members make decisions one way or the other based upon the facts you lay out..

Regards,
Dave

[cjw]

Re: Ethical question

Hi folks,

As mentioned earlier, I did attend the Toronto Show this weekend but was not able to speak to the dealer/acutioneer that bought the 1970's NFL jersey from me. I did not pursue the issue with his colleagues as it would have been useless to proceed without speaking to the buyer.

As stated before, I don't have a picture of the jersey in the condition it was when I sold it (unused and almost pristine). While I am completely convinced that the jersey was "doctored" and sold as game worn (with repairs etc)...I cannot prove this...and ultimately, it would just be a finger pointing issue. As such, I don't feel comfortable posting specifics here.

Sorry to stir things up with this thread, but I have purchased a few items from this auction house and am now concerned over it'c credibility.

[cjw]

Re: Ethical question

Photo documenting each of my nicer items is the way I will go now...for sure. Unfortunatley, the thrift store owner that I bought this from purchases all his stuff in bulk and I am sure he won't remmeber this item. I will ask however.

[CansecoPower33]

Re: Ethical question

This is why I'd always encourage people to document their collections with photos. Proving they're the same jersey will be extremely difficult without the necessary evidence. I don't suppose you could track down whomever gave the jersey to the store you purchased from. It's a longshot, but I'd attempt to trace its origin.

[sportscentury]

Re: Ethical question

I also would not wait until November. I know that there are already some emails being sent around speculating as to whom you are referring ... best to get this resolved soon.

Just some friendly advice. Whichever approach you take, best of luck.

Reid

[sportscentury]

Re: Ethical question

Thank you Chris and all other members of the discussion board for your feedback and insight. I look forward to sharing positive hobby stories and info in the near future!

I feel it would be best to speak to the dealer/auctioneer face-to-face about this issue and will have the chance in early Nov. at the International Sports Collectables Show in Toronto. There is no reason to believe that he will admit any culpability in the issue but I would like to have him answer my questions in person.

After this meeting (assuming it happens) I would be pleased to share the details with the board in a fullsome, and professional manner. I want to stress that I have no desire to sully anyone's good name.

Thanks again

My recommendation would be to get the response in written form. Otherwise, your statements are subject to a he-said-she-said questioning.

Reid

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Ethical question

Thank you Chris and all other members of the discussion board for your feedback and insight. I look forward to sharing positive hobby stories and info in the near future!

I feel it would be best to speak to the dealer/auctioneer face-to-face about this issue and will have the chance in early Nov. at the International Sports Collectables Show in Toronto. There is no reason to believe that he will admit any culpability in the issue but I would like to have him answer my questions in person.

After this meeting (assuming it happens) I would be pleased to share the details with the board in a fullsome, and professional manner. I want to stress that I have no desire to sully anyone's good name.

Thanks again

Thank you very much for handling this situation in such a professional and responsible manner. We are glad to have you aboard and I hope this site, and its members, prove helpful to you with your collecting needs.

Sincerely,
Chris

[cjw]

Re: Ethical question

Thank you Chris and all other members of the discussion board for your feedback and insight. I look forward to sharing positive hobby stories and info in the near future!

I feel it would be best to speak to the dealer/auctioneer face-to-face about this issue and will have the chance in early Nov. at the International Sports Collectables Show in Toronto. There is no reason to believe that he will admit any culpability in the issue but I would like to have him answer my questions in person.

After this meeting (assuming it happens) I would be pleased to share the details with the board in a fullsome, and professional manner. I want to stress that I have no desire to sully anyone's good name.

Thanks again

[otismalibu]

Re: Ethical question

If you are sure that it is the same jersey and that the auction house/dealer bought it directly from you, then I think that you should lay all the facts out, just the facts, and let the forum readers come to their own conclusions. If you call the dealer, I'm sure he will immediately spin it and dissuade you from posting here......

Dave

I agree!

And let us know what kind of compensation you've been offered for your silence

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Ethical question

it is important that you follow the rules of the forum/site, as overseen by Chirs, even if you may not fully concur with all of the rules.

While I certainly don't want to get into another discussion about the purpose of the forum rules, I simply wanted to let those who are new to the site know that the rules were created to make sure all posts are done in a responsible manner and that seller reputations are not damaged by unproven speculation. If someone has tried to defraud another, and the proof can be provided, it would certainly help others to be made aware of that situation. However, we aren't the type of site that allows people to post irresponsibly based on pure conjecture.

In addition to trying to do the right thing, I personally believe the adherence to these rules has allowed this site to gain further credibility in the collecting community at large. We continue to grow dramatically as a community and I believe the fact that members post responsibly has helped to make that happen.

Once again, I do not want to get into a discussion about the rules. I just wanted to let our members know they have a definitive purpose and were not created arbitrarily.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

[sportscentury]

Re: Ethical question

If you are sure that it is the same jersey and that the auction house/dealer bought it directly from you, then I think that you should lay all the facts out, just the facts, and let the forum readers come to their own conclusions. If you call the dealer, I'm sure he will immediately spin it and dissuade you from posting here......

Dave

I agree. While I think it is important to contact the seller in order to explore the situation and collect more information before sharing the person's name/business here on the forum, I don't think it's at all likely that a seller/dealer is going to reply by saying that he manufactured the use and is fraudulently representing the jersey (and he certainly isn't going to encourage you to expose the situation on a public forum). I'm not sure I've ever heard of such a thing, in fact. With this said, this site is owned and operated by Chris Cavalier and it is important that you follow the rules of the forum/site, as overseen by Chirs, even if you may not fully concur with all of the rules. So far, I think you've handled this situation in a very responsible manner ... and there are several of us who are anxiously awaiting more information.

Best of luck and welcome to the forum,
Reid

[CollectGU]

Re: Ethical question

If you are sure that it is the same jersey and that the auction house/dealer bought it directly from you, then I think that you should lay all the facts out, just the facts, and let the forum readers come to their own conclusions. If you call the dealer, I'm sure he will immediately spin it and dissuade you from posting here......

Dave

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Ethical question

Ok folks, I am new here and already have a dilemma. I sold a 1970's NFL jersey to a well known and reputable dealer a few years ago, and when I sold it to him it was in unused, mint shape. I just found that it was listed in a past auction (picked up an old catalogue) and it was sold with lots of repairs and wear. I am certain that it was the same jersey as due to several points mentioned in the auction. This item was obviosly doctored to appear as game worn to increase the value.

What do I do? Out the auctioneer here or forget it and treat it as a lesson learned?

Thanks

Hello Chris,

Thank you for asking this question before making any statements about the other party. Let me offer you a couple of things to consider:

For of all, this site exists, among other things, to help protect the collecting community from some of the dangers that exist in the market. In that regard, it would certainly help collectors to be aware of potential forgeries, etc.

However, please note that any accusations of forgery are very serious and should only be done in a responsible manner. I agree with others who have posted on this thread which recommend contacting the seller first to see what they have to say as well as verify the accuracy of your assumptions. If at that point you are convinced, it would certainly help other collectors to inform them about it.

Lastly, just to make sure you are clear regarding the poster's responsibility, please note the following disclaimer:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=100

Good luck with your due diligence and please keep us posted.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

[Eric]

Re: Ethical question

Also, how can you be sure it's the same jersey? This is definitely a fascinating story, and one which should be completely explored before naming names.

If this is what you think it is, people should know. But you have have your facts first. Keep at it, get your answers, and let us know.
Eric