Here we go again

[yanks12025]

Re: Here we go again

It's not orginal considering the Steiner tag has been messed with.

[trsent]

Re: Here we go again

hahahahaa.


.... I am just curious, why do you defend this person? What is in it for you?


As stated by many other members about the seller "being indicted, fraud, altered game used and so forth", so here is another quote for you

"if it walk like a duck, quack like a duck, it aint no F***king chicken"


As for the hole being punch in wash tag - my only experiences are with Yankees jersey. I spoke and deal with Efrain in the past and anyone here can voucher that Efrain is one stand up guy who support the collector while working for Steiner. He was very straight and arrow about Yankees stuff. I have no reason to doubt him and his saying whatsoever. He got no benefit from it.



as for MLB hologram being copied, I wished I had taken the picture of it before I mentioned it to the seller. But then again, I can always go to Kinko or Staples and test out this theory myself. How difficult can it be to copy a picture of something and take a picture of the copy?

It isn't about the person selling the jersey, it is about you making up accusations on a perfectly legitimate and original jersey. You are basically making false accusations and why?

Do you have any proof that the seller copied the hologram and placed it on a different jersey than the one sold by Grey Flannel? If not, you do not have the right to make up stuff.

I could come on this forum and make up stuff too if I lived in a dream word, but I don't, I live in reality.

I'd guarantee jersey is legitimate and original as purchased from Grey Flannel - You made up stuff, didn't email the seller in advance and are looking for trouble yourself by not being a respectable person playing by the rules of common decency.

[astros5.7]

Re: Here we go again

The photo matched Berkman jersey I am referencing is a Yankees jersey and MLB authenticated as issued to #17. That clearly shows that it isn't a blank jersey. I talked to the exact same person you did after I purchased the jersey, and I was told any jersey that was MLB authenticated as game issued had a hole punched in the wash tag, whether it showed use or not.

[marino13]

Re: Here we go again

Michael, I'm not sure what your issue is, but this jersey is a Steiner jersey from Grey Flannel and I'm not sure what your point is except an attack with no merit and clearly abusing forum policies.

The jersey was listed in Grey Flannel who works with Steiner and it appears identical to that jersey and you think the seller, who is under a microscope as Ken mentioned above, would counterfeit a hologram?

Without any proof your accusations are out of line and unprofessional. I'm not sure what you are trying to prove, but it is pretty sad your line of attack bringing up points that are not even close to being realistic.

No one can make accusations without first having some proof to back it up. If that was the case this forum wouldn't exist as it would be unprofessional and just a waste of time.

Good for you Steiner has your number on speed dial. I wouldn't brag about that. I like your fool and his money comment. That usually describes customer who Steiner has on their speed dial.

hahahahaa.


.... I am just curious, why do you defend this person? What is in it for you?


As stated by many other members about the seller "being indicted, fraud, altered game used and so forth", so here is another quote for you

"if it walk like a duck, quack like a duck, it aint no F***king chicken"


As for the hole being punch in wash tag - my only experiences are with Yankees jersey. I spoke and deal with Efrain in the past and anyone here can voucher that Efrain is one stand up guy who support the collector while working for Steiner. He was very straight and arrow about Yankees stuff. I have no reason to doubt him and his saying whatsoever. He got no benefit from it.



as for MLB hologram being copied, I wished I had taken the picture of it before I mentioned it to the seller. But then again, I can always go to Kinko or Staples and test out this theory myself. How difficult can it be to copy a picture of something and take a picture of the copy?

[astros5.7]

Re: Here we go again

I own a road Berkman from 2010 that shows good use and is photo matched, it is authenticated as issued and has a hole punched in the wash tag. Link below.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?p=247546#post247546

And another thread related to holes being punched in wash tags.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?p=252858#post252858

[trsent]

Re: Here we go again

Hmm, where did I say that Steiner is being up to no good?


Shit, if they were up to no good - they would have lose my number on their speed-dial. I spend more than I made with Steiner and I know what their stuff look like 99% of the time.

I just spoke with a closed friend there - they do not reused holograms that show that shown some kind of tampering (accident or not). Bent, crease or the mirror image has evidence of that. They dont want to leave any doubt on the holograms on their stuff.


I guess to each his own when it comes to purchase any item - questionable or not. "Fool and his money will part" when you dont research and question item you are buying. But thanks to this "education" forum, a lot of newbies wont make that mistake.

Michael, I'm not sure what your issue is, but this jersey is a Steiner jersey from Grey Flannel and I'm not sure what your point is except an attack with no merit and clearly abusing forum policies.

The jersey was listed in Grey Flannel who works with Steiner and it appears identical to that jersey and you think the seller, who is under a microscope as Ken mentioned above, would counterfeit a hologram?

Without any proof your accusations are out of line and unprofessional. I'm not sure what you are trying to prove, but it is pretty sad your line of attack bringing up points that are not even close to being realistic.

No one can make accusations without first having some proof to back it up. If that was the case this forum wouldn't exist as it would be unprofessional and just a waste of time.

Good for you Steiner has your number on speed dial. I wouldn't brag about that. I like your fool and his money comment. That usually describes customer who Steiner has on their speed dial.

[jppopma]

Re: Here we go again

As the seller is not selling this as game used, I don't see what the problem with selling a team issued (MLB Authenticated even ) jersey is.

Good information though on the hole punched in the team issued Yankees jerseys. I don't buy the blank part because the MLB Authentication shows #24.

[Melissa1334]

Re: Here we go again

when you look up the mlb authentication number, why does it come up as team issued jersey only, not cano game issued?

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Here we go again

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...hread.php?t=99

16. In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

So, I don't see any reason the seller wasn't contacted. It is really possible to click the eBay Ask A Question button.

If you think there is criminial wrong-doing, did you contact the forum moderators immediatley?

Don't know about the OP's answer, but I know why I wouldn't waste my time trying to contact this seller: he's one of the biggest frauds on ebay who has already pled guilty to doctoring jerseys. So if he was contacted, based on previous experience, he'd deny, insult, or ignore.

Ken

[slab0meat]

Re: Here we go again

Strictly speaking of the hologram falling off...

I bought a 2010 issued Thames from Steiner a few years ago. I *think* there were two holograms on the Majestic tag (I'd have to physically check, not home right now), and I wore that jersey two or three times. One of the holograms fell off once, and I happened to see it on the floor.. tried putting it back on and it stuck. Next time out, it fell off again and I didn't find it. I'm not even sure if this was washed at all, MAYBE once.

Bottom line, it's very possible for this to happen.

[marino13]

Re: Here we go again

So, did you ask the seller your questions before posting the on the forum?

No one is above the rules of this forum.

I don't see the issues, the jersey is apperars to be a legitimate pro-cut or whatever, but you seem to think Steiner and the current seller are up to no good? What makes the MLB hologram questionable? Are you just looking for trouble?

The Steiner sticker has moved? I guess you guys are really pfishing here.

Hmm, where did I say that Steiner is being up to no good?


Shit, if they were up to no good - they would have lose my number on their speed-dial. I spend more than I made with Steiner and I know what their stuff look like 99% of the time.

I just spoke with a closed friend there - they do not reused holograms that show that shown some kind of tampering (accident or not). Bent, crease or the mirror image has evidence of that. They dont want to leave any doubt on the holograms on their stuff.


I guess to each his own when it comes to purchase any item - questionable or not. "Fool and his money will part" when you dont research and question item you are buying. But thanks to this "education" forum, a lot of newbies wont make that mistake.

[marino13]

Re: Here we go again

I also spoke with Efrain in the past and he also mentioned about the whole punched on wash tag as "no number" jersey.


And pulled one of my blank jersey which I wore to many games --- sure enough, there is a hole punch on it.


Now back to the point of the hologram, I have seen "photo copied" of the so called hologram at a collectible show. I pointed out to the dealer and he was shocked that it looked just like the real deal. He was pissed that he had put that game used jersey away.


With all the high tech printer out there, it is NOT that difficult to "custom made" an existing hologram.


Misplace LOA? It can happen.

The condition of the Steiner hologram when it was auction off is VERY VERY different from the one currently being auctioned.


Another thing, hologram doesnt just fall off on its own. The blank jersey I wore to the games and been washed and dried so many time i can count -- the Steiner hologram still STUCK on there. So, the excuse of the hologram just fell off and being put back is just kinda iffy at best!

[pjbmd]

Re: Here we go again

before Efrain left steiner i had communicated with him about the punched holes in the tagging
he stated that steiner had done this with all jerseys collected at season end which were holo'ed by MLB as issued
i have a few 2010 jerseys tagged as holo'ed with obvious wear simply due to authenticors not seeing the item come off the players back
what im trying to say is don't be thrown off by hole punched in tag--many 2010 NYY jerseys have that
PJB

[trsent]

Re: Here we go again

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=99

16. In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

So, I don't see any reason the seller wasn't contacted. It is really possible to click the eBay Ask A Question button.

If you think there is criminial wrong-doing, did you contact the forum moderators immediatley?

[trsent]

Re: Here we go again

So, did you ask the seller your questions before posting the on the forum?

No one is above the rules of this forum.

I don't see the issues, the jersey is apperars to be a legitimate pro-cut or whatever, but you seem to think Steiner and the current seller are up to no good? What makes the MLB hologram questionable? Are you just looking for trouble?

The Steiner sticker has moved? I guess you guys are really pfishing here.