1996 Alex Rodriguez Game Used & Signed HR #15 Bat

[kellsox]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

I think photo matching is great. But you have to be realistic when trying to compare finding a photo matched from today, than from earlier years.

The farther you go back, the more difficult it is to find vidoes and pictures. Technology today is much more advance, and we have many more tools.

Regards, Tony

Agreed, a photo match would be great but my question was that w/o a photo of Arod using this model bat in any game action how can it be authenticated as 100% game used. His initial statement was that it was used to hit a specific home run which was proven wrong, then over 10 years later he signs it as game used. If there is doubt by the player, how can the authenticator be sure it wasn't just a bp bat, etc... Like I said nice bat- just questioning the authentication/grading system
k

[3arod13]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

Very detailed letter which captures the full background of the bat. I find the grade of A10 interesting. It states the bat is 100% documented- with Arod's initial inscription error(which puts into question Arod's recollection of when the bat was used) and no photo documentation of him using a Rawlings during a game, how can the authenticator be 100% that the bat was used in an actual game. Based on their grading criteria, wouldn't an A9 be more appropriate?
K

It is well known Arod used Rawlings bats during games early in his career, so that's not really in question. Finding a picture is the difficult part.

Regards, Tony

[3arod13]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

Very detailed letter which captures the full background of the bat. I find the grade of A10 interesting. It states the bat is 100% documented- with Arod's initial inscription error(which puts into question Arod's recollection of when the bat was used) and no photo documentation of him using a Rawlings during a game, how can the authenticator be 100% that the bat was used in an actual game. Based on their grading criteria, wouldn't an A9 be more appropriate?
K

I think photo matching is great. But you have to be realistic when trying to compare finding a photo matched from today, than from earlier years.

The farther you go back, the more difficult it is to find vidoes and pictures. Technology today is much more advance, and we have many more tools.

Regards, Tony

[kellsox]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

Very detailed letter which captures the full background of the bat. I find the grade of A10 interesting. It states the bat is 100% documented- with Arod's initial inscription error(which puts into question Arod's recollection of when the bat was used) and no photo documentation of him using a Rawlings during a game, how can the authenticator be 100% that the bat was used in an actual game. Based on their grading criteria, wouldn't an A9 be more appropriate?
K

[3arod13]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

Matter finally resolved.

Regards, Tony

[3arod13]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

Tony,

I believe your intentions are all good, but the statement "it is still possible that this is a bat used by Alex Rodriguez to hit a HR, just not HR #15." is pure speculation.

Why not speculate "it is still possible that this is a bat used by Alex Rodriguez during batting practice, not during an actual game."

Doesn't sound as enticing, but if we're specuating you never know.

Just let Mears write whatever they want and let the bat be judged on its own merits.

- John G.

John,

Thanks for your comment.

I would agree with you if this was a bat that showed game use and was only signed by Arod, with no other inscription, and I wanted that comment added in the MEARS LOA History. That would be pure speculation.

It is well know that player’s do make mistakes and error on inscriptions. Nobody’s perfect. Arod did the right thing in correcting this error. The bat is game used. The bat was inscribed HR #15 1996. It is very well possible that the HR (#15) inscription was wrong, and it could possible be a HR bat from another game.

I don’t see anything wrong with my statement, considering it was signed as a HR bat.

Regards, Tony

[Kid4hof03]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

My thinking in all of this and the reason I agree with MEARS initial response is for the future. If I were to buy a piece like this and then find out all the threads, all the back information about the bat I would be pretty concerned. My first thought would be, "why did the seller not tell me all this?" It would cause me to questions everything else about the bat.

I personally think that full disclosure is the only way to go on an item like this. Not giving all the details up front gives an appearance of dishonest, even though I am sure none is intended in this case.

[GameBats]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

Tony,

I believe your intentions are all good, but the statement "it is still possible that this is a bat used by Alex Rodriguez to hit a HR, just not HR #15." is pure speculation.

Why not speculate "it is still possible that this is a bat used by Alex Rodriguez during batting practice, not during an actual game."

Doesn't sound as enticing, but if we're specuating you never know.

Just let Mears write whatever they want and let the bat be judged on its own merits.

- John G.

[murfsteve25]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

Kid4hof03: Murfsteve25: my only question is why would you need 2 or 3 different LOA's for the same bat? What good is it going to do you if already have a LOA from Arod. I'd say the Arod LOA is as good as your gunna get. I dont see the value increasing just because you have 3 different LOA's stating the same thing.

Response: I already paid for the MEARS LOA. MEARS letters provide more information and are very detailed with factory history, etc. You’re correct. I could just keep the Rawlings Company Letter (proof Arod ordered 12 bats of this model in 1996) and Arod’s LOA, and that should be enough.

Good point. I see your angle now.

[3arod13]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

If you do a google on "Alex Rodriguez game used rawlings bat" it'll come back links to GUU with all the discussions of this very bat and the history of it. Should Tony ever part with this bat the seller may discover the history anyway if they did this.

I think MEARS disclosing the history on the LOA will protect Tony from any liability and future issues with the next owner of this bat.

After reviewing all of your comments and opinions, I'm rethinking this matter.

As previously stated, "I’m considering asking Troy to keep the info about the HR #15 1996 inscription in the MEARS LOA, and at least state something like this in his "History" section of the MEARS LOA:

“Although this Rawlings bat was initially inscribed HR #15 1996, and authenticated as such, and then proven later not to have been the actual bat in which Alex Rodriguez used to hit HR #15 1996, it is still possible that this is a bat used by Alex Rodriguez to hit a HR, just not HR #15."

This way, if it is later proven to have been used to hit a HR, it will show the initital HR #15 inscription was incorrect, but it is a HR bat.

Regards, Tony

[metsbats]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

steve...

I would say that it maintains the bats history...and as Truck pointed out that if someone does match it to another homerun then the argument of it being a homerun bat doesn't exhist as it was originally mislabeled.

If years down the road people discover that this bat was once labeled a HR bat then, and then changed to its current state, questions would be brought up about why. Its simply disclosure and the story of this back. I would think this adds to its provenance and in turn maintains a consistant unarguable story. The question here of should be if Tony wants it to be so. A COA or LOA is supposed to list known facts about an item. The value shouldn't be affected by this statement, but its story maintains consistency and eliminates the potential question.

I think it only adds to the bats lore.

wade

If you do a google on "Alex Rodriguez game used rawlings bat" it'll come back links to GUU with all the discussions of this very bat and the history of it. Should Tony ever part with this bat the seller may discover the history anyway if they did this.

I think MEARS disclosing the history on the LOA will protect Tony from any liability and future issues with the next owner of this bat.

[3arod13]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

I forwarded this post to Troy for him to review all comments.

You all have provided me with some things to think about. Although I still feel, as stated earlier, if a bat was authenticated, and someone then removed the tape on the handle, or removed a players number on the knob (which happened not to be the player in questions number), and you wanted to have the letter upgraded without mentioning this, I agree 100%. For an inscription proven to be wrong, then corrected, I disagree.

After reading many of our comments and opinions, I will say that maybe keeping the HR #15 remarks in the MEARS LOA may help explain why there is a picture of Arod adding an inscription on this bat as a Yankee in 2009.

The signature from 1996 was left on the bat, and only inscription “HR #15 1996” was removed and replaced with “Game Used 1996” in 2009. This would at least explain this.

I’m considering asking Troy to keep the info about the HR #15 1996 inscription in the MEARS LOA, and at least state something like this in his "History" section of the MEARS LOA:

“Although this Rawlings bat was initially inscribed HR #15 1996, and authenticated as such, and then proven later not to have been the actual bat in which Alex Rodriguez used to hit HR #15 1996, it is still possible that this is a bat used by Alex Rodriguez to hit a HR, just not HR #15 1996.”

Your thoughts?

Regards, Tony

[3arod13]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

Kid4hof03: I agree with MEARS 100% on this one. I do not think it would ever be fair to another collector to purchase this bat and not know all of the history behind it.

Response: If a bat was authenticated, and someone then removed the tape on the handle, or removed a players number on the knob (which happened not to be the player in question), and you then wanted to have the letter upgraded without mentioning this, I agree 100%. For an inscription proven to be wrong, then corrected, I disagree.

Rboitano: I dont care about third party LOA's. If its a team LOA or a player LOA then I care. I think it’s still a really cool bat, I was wondering if you still had it.

Yes I do. There are thousands of Arod Louisville Sluggers and other style bats out there. You don’t come across a Rawlings often. Arod only used them early in his career. Reason why I love this bat.

Bigtruck260: I have yet to see a Rawlings A-Rod bat as nice as yours. It's a really nice piece of history, regardless of whether or not it was used to hit a HR. With nearly 600 HRs to his credit, it just may be a HR bat...have you totally eliminated that possibility? Did you ever find photo proof that he used it in a game?

Response: I do have a picture of Arod signing game used bats with Mill Creek Sports back then. As you can see in the picture I’ve attached, this Rawlings bat shows really nice game use and is cracked. In my research, this is the only picture I could find with a game used Rawlings bat in Arod’s possession. Finding one of him using one in a game has been difficult. But it’s known that he did use them early in his career. Do I believe it’s possible this is a HR bat, and the HR number (#15) was the incorrect HR Number? Sure, it is possible.

emann: I'd also consider asking A-Rod's company to reimburse the cost of MEARS LOA or put up the cash toward a LOA from Taube. This is their mess and they still should clean it up...

Response: They were more than generous in correcting this matter. Went above and beyond, so I am very satisfied with the outcome.

Suicide Squeeze: Interesting position to take. Again. Please, for my benefit, explain your reasoning behind this? I want to know what makes you think there is any relevance to taking a mismarked bat, tying it to a specific event, and correcting it to a meaningful correct inscription by removing the portion that is incorrect. The bat, in it's corrected state, is a nice item, and not misrepresenting it's heritage as it was before. BEFORE....it was a fraudulent piece. Now? It's golden. The correction "corrected" the error. What reason would there be to necessitate this chain of improper inscription followed by improper inscription removal play in the "disclosure" of ownership regarding this bat?
I am being sincere.....please explain to me the importance behind noting this information.....
It seems to me that a new LOA stating what the bat represents in it's current state is the only thing that matters. The other "record" part of it has already been documented.......right HERE. And MEARS could keep a record of the original LOA issued with it if they deemed necessary, couldn't they?

Response: Well said, and my point exactly. As stated earlier, If a bat was authenticated, and someone then removed the tape on the handle, or removed a players number on the knob (which happened not to be the player in question), and you wanted to have the letter upgraded without mentioning this, I agree 100%. For an inscription proven to be wrong, then corrected, I disagree. In the future, the bat would be sold in its current state, a Game Used Bat, not a HR Bat.
Murfsteve25: my only question is why would you need 2 or 3 different LOA's for the same bat? What good is it going to do you if already have a LOA from Arod. I'd say the Arod LOA is as good as your gunna get. I dont see the value increasing just because you have 3 different LOA's stating the same thing.

Response: I already paid for the MEARS LOA. MEARS letters provide more information and are very detailed with factory history, etc. You’re correct. I could just keep the Rawlings Company Letter (proof Arod ordered 12 bats of this model in 1996) and Arod’s LOA, and that should be enough.

WadeInBmore: I would say that it maintains the bats history...and as Truck pointed out that if someone does match it to another homerun then the argument of it being a homerun bat doesn't exhist as it was originally mislabeled.
If years down the road people discover that this bat was once labeled a HR bat then, and then changed to its current state, questions would be brought up about why. Its simply disclosure and the story of this back. I would think this adds to its provenance and in turn maintains a consistant unarguable story. The question here of should be if Tony wants it to be so. A COA or LOA is supposed to list known facts about an item. The value shouldn't be affected by this statement, but its story maintains consistency and eliminates the potential question.
I think it only adds to the bats lore. Wade

Response: I don’t think it maintains the bats history. It maintains the inscription history. As I stated earlier, “If a bat was authenticated, and someone then removed the tape on the handle, or removed a players number on the knob (which happened not to be the player in question), and you wanted to have the letter upgraded without mentioning this, I agree 100%.
For an inscription proven to be wrong, then corrected, I disagree. In the future, the bat would be sold as a Game Used Bat as documented, not a HR Bat. Even it proven down the road that it is actually is a HR Bat, but the number HR as inscribed wrong back in 1996, then that’s great. That can later be document. There is that possibility that it is a HR bat, but inscribed with the incorrect HR number. Finding pictures of Arod using a Rawlings in a game has been impossible. I’m sure they’re out there, but back then in 1996, you just can’t find photo’s, as you can today.

Many great comments and differences of opinion. This is why I brought it to this forum; this is why I value so many of your opinions (especially since you are game used collectors).

Many of you know there have been discussions in this forum about removing inscriptions and having the items reinscribed. I don’t see an issue with it, as long as the inscription is correct and accurate. The inscription was wrong; corrected; and the bat in its current state, is a 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat.

Overall: I agree with Suicide Squeeze.

Regards, Tony

[murfsteve25]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

my only questions is why would you need 2 or 3 different LOA's for the same bat? What good is it going to do you if already have a LOA from Arod. I'd say the Arod LOA is as good as your gunna get. I dont see the value increasing just because you have 3 different LOA's stating the same thing.

just my 2 cents

[WadeInBmore]

Re: I Need Your Help - 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat (Final Results)

steve...

I would say that it maintains the bats history...and as Truck pointed out that if someone does match it to another homerun then the argument of it being a homerun bat doesn't exhist as it was originally mislabeled.

If years down the road people discover that this bat was once labeled a HR bat then, and then changed to its current state, questions would be brought up about why. Its simply disclosure and the story of this back. I would think this adds to its provenance and in turn maintains a consistant unarguable story. The question here of should be if Tony wants it to be so. A COA or LOA is supposed to list known facts about an item. The value shouldn't be affected by this statement, but its story maintains consistency and eliminates the potential question.

I think it only adds to the bats lore.

wade