Questionable business practices (strictly an opinion) thread

[esigs]

Re: Questionable business practices (strictly an opinion) thread

Here's MY PERSONAL Definitions (Talking Baseball - I can't address other sports)

GAME USED : Worn by the player while PARTICIPATING in a Game.

GAME WORN : Worn by player on the bench during a game but player never activated during the game.

GAME ISSUED : Made (by the Team) for a player who never ended up dressing out for the game or never got the expected 'Call Up' after the jersey was made. NEVER worn by the player.

EVENT WORN : Made (by the Team) for a player to wear during a photo op or Fan Event (such as a Fan Fest) but not worn or used during a game.

AUTHENTIC : I'm guessing a 'Pro Cut' would fall under this - Made exactly to player specs (same materials, extra lengths, etc) but made to sell at the Pro Shop, NOT made for the player.

RETAIL Authentic : Same Materials as 'AUTHENTIC', but NOT made to player specs. General basic sizing.

REPLICA : Made with correct colors and fonts, but lower grade materials, generally heat pressed logos, letters and numbers.

KNOCK OFF : Made with better materials than a 'REPLICA' (stitched on numbers, logos, etc) but looks like crap next to an AUTHENTIC.

That said, things to look for in baseball jerseys:

Tagging: since Majestic took over, tagging that starts with '00' is either AUTHENTIC or Made for the Team (GU, GW, EU/EW, GI). i.e. 0062. If it ends with '00' it is RETAIL. i.e. 6200. (This is a General Rule of Thumb and there may be exceptions on occasion).

Sizing: I can't speak for Wilson, Spalding, etc, but as far as Rawlings, Russell and Majestic are concerned, sizing tags can tell you a lot.

If a jersey is sized S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL, it is RETAIL.

If it is sized 36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60 it may be AUTHENTIC or Used, but these are the Only sizes available for AUTHENTICS.

If it is sized 38, 42, 46, 50, 54, 58 (the 'in between' sizes) then the jersey was made for the team's use. These sizes are not available for RETAIL. At this point you would need to determine GU, GW, etc...

That said, like anything in life, there are exceptions to the rule.

As an example, in the early days of the Rockies, they took and sold many jerseys for Charity and such and sometimes a player would arrive and not have the Jersey of the Day available. The Rockies staff would then go to the Diamond Dry Goods, grab a jersey off the rack, have them customize t on the spot and bring it back down to the player.

This has been documented via the Rockies and early jerseys that have surfaced with LOAs from the Rockies.

I hope this helps.

- Smitty

Smitty, I have a couple of GW/GI jerseys I bought directly from a team, one that is MLB authenticated as GI that have tags 0620 (alternate jersey) and another has 0780 (BP jersey). Do you know why those numbers are different and don't start with 00? I also have a GU/MLB authenticated WBC jersey that has W780 on it. Curious to see if you know about those different codes.

[xpress34]

Re: Questionable business practices (strictly an opinion) thread

Smitty, I have a couple of GW/GI jerseys I bought directly from a team, one that is MLB authenticated as GI that have tags 0620 (alternate jersey) and another has 0780 (BP jersey). Do you know why those numbers are different and don't start with 00? I also have a GU/MLB authenticated WBC jersey that has W780 on it. Curious to see if you know about those different codes.

James -

I don't know all of the taggings - Majestic has used so many different codes for Home. Away, Alt, BP, etc... but I have seen single '0' tags like you mentioned as well and those are fine too - i forgot to mention it.

But if it starts with any other number, it's probably retail.

As far as the W on WBC jersey, that could be to tag it as being for the WBC.

- Smitty

[xsentrixsupra]

Re: Questionable business practices (strictly an opinion) thread

Here's MY PERSONAL Definitions (Talking Baseball - I can't address other sports)

GAME USED : Worn by the player while PARTICIPATING in a Game.

GAME WORN : Worn by player on the bench during a game but player never activated during the game.

GAME ISSUED : Made (by the Team) for a player who never ended up dressing out for the game or never got the expected 'Call Up' after the jersey was made. NEVER worn by the player.

EVENT WORN : Made (by the Team) for a player to wear during a photo op or Fan Event (such as a Fan Fest) but not worn or used during a game.

AUTHENTIC : I'm guessing a 'Pro Cut' would fall under this - Made exactly to player specs (same materials, extra lengths, etc) but made to sell at the Pro Shop, NOT made for the player.

RETAIL Authentic : Same Materials as 'AUTHENTIC', but NOT made to player specs. General basic sizing.

REPLICA : Made with correct colors and fonts, but lower grade materials, generally heat pressed logos, letters and numbers.

KNOCK OFF : Made with better materials than a 'REPLICA' (stitched on numbers, logos, etc) but looks like crap next to an AUTHENTIC.

That said, things to look for in baseball jerseys:

Tagging: since Majestic took over, tagging that starts with '00' is either AUTHENTIC or Made for the Team (GU, GW, EU/EW, GI). i.e. 0062. If it ends with '00' it is RETAIL. i.e. 6200. (This is a General Rule of Thumb and there may be exceptions on occasion).

Sizing: I can't speak for Wilson, Spalding, etc, but as far as Rawlings, Russell and Majestic are concerned, sizing tags can tell you a lot.

If a jersey is sized S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL, it is RETAIL.

If it is sized 36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60 it may be AUTHENTIC or Used, but these are the Only sizes available for AUTHENTICS.

If it is sized 38, 42, 46, 50, 54, 58 (the 'in between' sizes) then the jersey was made for the team's use. These sizes are not available for RETAIL. At this point you would need to determine GU, GW, etc...

That said, like anything in life, there are exceptions to the rule.

As an example, in the early days of the Rockies, they took and sold many jerseys for Charity and such and sometimes a player would arrive and not have the Jersey of the Day available. The Rockies staff would then go to the Diamond Dry Goods, grab a jersey off the rack, have them customize t on the spot and bring it back down to the player.

This has been documented via the Rockies and early jerseys that have surfaced with LOAs from the Rockies.

I hope this helps.

- Smitty

Thats good info! Just 1 question though, does that go across all sports? I could have sworn I've seen legit game used NBA jerseys that were size 58 before?

[JDubbs73]

Re: Questionable business practices (strictly an opinion) thread

I was interested in having a dialogue with forum members re: the issue of what constitutes a team issued jersey.

I'll preface my response by stating that I only collect NFL game items. That being said:

I generally identify game used and worn as interchangeable terms, but to mean an item that was worn by a player during a game. I think "bench worn" is a more appropriate description if the player never sees game action.

I typically identify game issued as being game ready, based upon a player's specifications/customizations, and issued to the player for a game, or games, in which he did not dress.

Lastly, I generally view team issued as being purchased for the benefit of a player but never modified or issued for actual game use.

I've seen the term "pro-cut" used quite a bit, but in my mind this makes me think retail right away.

[aallanson]

Re: Questionable business practices (strictly an opinion) thread

I'll preface my response by stating that I only collect NFL game items. That being said:

I generally identify game used and worn as interchangeable terms, but to mean an item that was worn by a player during a game. I think "bench worn" is a more appropriate description if the player never sees game action.

I typically identify game issued as being game ready, based upon a player's specifications/customizations, and issued to the player for a game, or games, in which he did not dress.

Lastly, I generally view team issued as being purchased for the benefit of a player but never modified or issued for actual game use.

I've seen the term "pro-cut" used quite a bit, but in my mind this makes me think retail right away.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the discussion in this thread.

I think the section I quoted above best mirrors my own thoughts on terms associated with the game worn hobby. Further, a jersey fabricated after the fact does not fall under any of the above categories, IMO.

[G1X]

Re: Questionable business practices (strictly an opinion) thread

One issue that has not been addressed in this discussion is that the jersey with the name added after-the-fact by the Seller might actually be a team-issued jersey. Based on bulk buys I have made from football teams over the years, it is not unusual to see numbered jerseys that never had a name on the back (and were never used, of course). These jerseys were usually numbers not assigned that season, or else extras that could be used if needed (e.g., player decides during the year that he wants or needs his jersey tailored differently).

With regards to baseball jerseys, the 1990s Atlanta Braves are a good example of a team that carried extra jerseys that were numbered but did not have names on the back. It is easy to tell players who came aboard during the season as the font added by the team is very distinguishable from the normal font.

I have also made team purchases that included a few jerseys with no numbers. My assumption was that the team had the jerseys on hand for emergencies such as a last-minute roster addition, replacement jerseys, etc.

As for Alan's situation, the Seller should have revealed this information BEFORE selling the jersey.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League uniforms

[aallanson]

Re: Questionable business practices (strictly an opinion) thread

One issue that has not been addressed in this discussion is that the jersey with the name added after-the-fact by the Seller might actually be a team-issued jersey. Based on bulk buys I have made from football teams over the years, it is not unusual to see numbered jerseys that never had a name on the back (and were never used, of course). These jerseys were usually numbers not assigned that season, or else extras that could be used if needed (e.g., player decides during the year that he wants or needs his jersey tailored differently).

With regards to baseball jerseys, the 1990s Atlanta Braves are a good example of a team that carried extra jerseys that were numbered but did not have names on the back. It is easy to tell players who came aboard during the season as the font added by the team is very distinguishable from the normal font.

I have also made team purchases that included a few jerseys with no numbers. My assumption was that the team had the jerseys on hand for emergencies such as a last-minute roster addition, replacement jerseys, etc.

As for Alan's situation, the Seller should have revealed this information BEFORE selling the jersey.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League uniforms

There is no doubt in my mind that the jersey originated with the team, and that it was acquired by the seller from the team. However, like you stated, the name was added after the fact, and that is what bothers me. It was sold to me under the guise of, "It doesn't show any wear, so it must just be issued." The reality, revealed after the fact, is much worse. The seller not revealing the alteration because he "didn't think it was important" is not acceptable. Nevertheless, the jersey did originate with the team, when purchased as a blank in a bulk purchase by the seller.