Legendary Auctions

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Legendary Auctions

That is accurate. The Legendary Auction listing said the jersey was photo-matched to a Canucks program without the nameplate, so the conclusion was that the nameplate was added after the season.

Given the white restored jersey sold for $150k, this blue nameplate added jersey may have been considered as restored by the $175k bidder.

I think stopping the auction before it ended (even if in the final moments) was the right thing to do.

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. We had a family member (pet) pass away unexpectedly and my concerns have been elsewhere the last few days.

Yep, I was aware as I read the comments in the follow-up emails when Legendary, whole-heartedly (LOL) and forced by their own actions, had to share the additional proof they discovered from the month-long Legendary-initiated research, and announced the restarting of the auction.

So...Doug Allen and company (probably just Doug by himself) grew a conscious and thought he would do the hobby and bidders on this gem justice by stopping the auction for this jersey they estimated to reach $500,000...but was only at $175,000 at the finish line......(taking a DEEP breath).....so he could further photographically verify the jersey was what it was offered as being, and, because of his new-found personal glorious desire to do the right thing for us collectors, all at the expense of the consignor and Legendary's 19.5% commission!!!????

(GAAAAAAASSSSSPING FOR A DEEP BREATH)

Man, what a glorious day! This man has found righteousness!!



I hope the judge is enlightened to his monumental break-through and takes that into serious consideration at the sentencing hearing next month!! In the meantime you guys know me, I like to throw dog food all over a freshly grilled filet dinner, so I'll play devil's advocate and ask...

Could this be a laughable case of greed biting the greedy in the hind quarters hard? Stopping that auction cost the consignor a MINIMUM OF $45,000 due to the fine research of Meigray and company, and the "further research" discovery that the jersey now exists in something OTHER than it's all-original condition....something that usually lowers interest with the big boys in the collecting hobby.

At the very least, that may be an explanation of what happened to the high bidder(s) (and thank GOD for that! No one gets a shill...err!...THRILL, out of assuming something worse). Given the newly-found info provided by the additional discovery Legendary bent the rules to facilitate, they pulled up stakes and moved on. But the fact the rules of the auction house itself were manually "tweaked" as the clock struck 12 still wreaks of a self-serving manipulation of the "unregulated game" called sports memorabilia auctions that blew up BADLY in their faces.Maybe Doug will find a tad of spare time to sit quietly and contemplate the error of his ways?

How high could the jersey have gone if the auction wasn't stopped? Maybe it ran it's course and was already there. The painful answer, however, was $45K higher than where it ultimately ended, no matter how you cut the cake. The irony of it all. And such a shame on the bad call. It's tough enough these days for a solid citizen to raise enough to cover attorney fee's, ain't it?

[danesei@yahoo.com]

Re: Legendary Auctions

Steve
Jersey came back with an analysis of not having an Original nameplate.
That was contrary to the first go around if I recall correctly

That is accurate. The Legendary Auction listing said the jersey was photo-matched to a Canucks program without the nameplate, so the conclusion was that the nameplate was added after the season.

Given the white restored jersey sold for $150k, this blue nameplate added jersey may have been considered as restored by the $175k bidder.

I think stopping the auction before it ended (even if in the final moments) was the right thing to do.

[KGoldin]

Re: Legendary Auctions

Steve
Jersey came back with an analysis of not having an Original nameplate.
That was contrary to the first go around if I recall correctly



UOTE=suicide_squeeze;374658]I think a review of this auction and the comments surrounding it are in order.

We had a prominent "rookie" game used Wayne Gretzky jersey up for auction in Legendary's 2014 winter auction. As most of you know, it was frozen (the sale was stopped) just before the auction ended, after what appeared to be a steady climb in bidding to bring the high bid to $175,000.

Obviously is isn't an orthodox move to stop an auction DEAD in it's tracks with the explanation that all parties would benefit from additional time to further authenticate the jersey. With almost no thought or "reasoning" expended, this simply couldn't be further from the truth for the person who was the high bidder, but we'll get to that. As a result, many skeptical comments, accusations, and speculation on what had really happened started flying. And in the mayhem, Barry Meisel of Meigray jumped in making the statement that everyone should stop their comments as they were all wrong. In all fairness, he later apologized as he didn't want to appear like he was chastising the collecting community over the strangeness of the actions displayed by Legendary to cease the auction at the eleventh hour.

What happened here? Was the jersey over-estimated in value by the auction house at $500,000? Was the provenance inadequate for big $$$ collectors? Was Legendary panicking at the perception of the jersey going for 100's of thousands less than estimated so they reacted in an attempt to save face? Was the consignor so angry that he pressured them into stopping the auction because he felt he was misled and promised something he wasn't going to receive?

Or...was it something that, without substantial proof, stating here even as an opinion, would just get you banned!?

Any of you involved in this hobby knows that a special item, in the last moments of it's auction, can at the drop of a dime get into a NASTY glorious no-holds-barred back-n-forth bidding war until the piece reaches a value no one thought possible. So it would make sense the fear of a lack of a bidding war is NOT what prompted the halt of this auction. Legendary's inexplicable deed had to be triggered by something else.

Was it not the fear, but to the contrary the absolute certainty that a bidding war was not going to take place, that prompted the cease of the auction? And if so, what relevant fact...what knowledge...led to support their concern on that?

So the jersey was halted and Legendary came out with a cute email to all of the sheep who cared to read it, not on WHY it was halted, but rather on WHAT they were going to do AFTER halting it. The collecting community was handed a sack of....well, something, I'm not sure what because we can't smell here over the internet....but it was something expressing the conundrum that "this would be in the best interest of all parties". Well, let's take a peek at that too.

Let's start with identifying the "parties" of which, in it's simplest form there are three. One would certainly be the consignor (for the sake of our discussion, lets leave out the fact the consignor could be the auction house itself, one of it's principles, or any other third party who is being represented by the person acting as the "consignor"). Yep, I can see how further authentication verifying the jersey's heritage, would help Mr. Consignor.

Second, there's the auction house performing the auction. Common sense rings true that since they receive their take from a percentage-based commission (via buyer's and sellers premiums), anything to bolster the price would work to their benefit too. Check.

Lastly, there's that dude on the other side trying to add that little gem to his collection. And that's where Legendary's explanation skids off the icy road.

To the buyer of any piece, the provenance is of utmost importance. So as was previously stated in this thread by a prior poster, the "high bidder" obviously was sold on the authenticity: He placed a $175,000 bid on the darn thing! So one could argue, how, having the rug pulled out from underneath him just before the hammer comes down and he WINS his cherished jersey, does it benefit HIM to have the auction halted to facilitate "additional authentication" when he is about to win it and is ALREADY CONVINCED OF IT'S AUTHENTICITY?? Let's all be adult here. That's not even realistic. What if the winning bidder had done his OWN research, and had found proof the jersey was real? Meigray is a FANTASTIC company and their services are precious to the collecting community. But they aren't the BE-ALL END-ALL on everything! Are you telling me Mr. Highbidder is going to sit by happily while Legendary solicits Meigray to "FIND MORE PROOF!" in an attempt to ultimately drive the value of the poorly performing jersey higher if solid additional photographic evidence is found, EVIDENCE THAT HE MAY ALREADY HAVE FROM HIS OWN DUE DILIGENCE?

There are many scenarios that can (and did) pop into the minds of collectors who expressed their dismay over the last second plug-pulling of this jersey auction. All of it, warranted, IMO.

As a fellow collector perplexed with finding out what really went down here, I find it troubling that there hasn't been one single solitary forum member or authoritative figure to demand an answer from Legendary on what happened to the high bidder as the smoke cleared from Legendary locking the brakes up on this jersey at the finish line. But that's just me, the eternal optimist believing truth will always come out at the detriment of deceit. I'm a hopeless romantic....

So, how does it end?

Legendary, with this mountain of additional data to rifle through, a plethora of additional photographic opportunity recently discovered and presented to them, drug Barry Meisel & Co. through it while manufacturing additional time to further authenticate the jersey. And the net resulting financial windfall?

A loss of $45,000 in the final bid value. The final bid on the jersey ended up being $130,000, plus the 19.5% buyer's premium for a grand total of $155,350. So much for maximizing the value from "additional time for further authentication". (Remember, that $175,000 "high bid" hadn't even been subjected to the 19.5% buyers premium yet to be added when the halting took place. We're talking almost $210 GRAND!).

The bigger question here is, when they reopened the bidding, where did all of these bidders go that previously drove the jersey to $175,000? Inquiring minds want to know. A forum member was banned for expressing his take on that, so I'm leaving it alone. No insinuations, no speculation!

There are very strict rules here on the forum, and I don't even want to walk into the same building as one that would even remotely approach the appearance of breaking a forum rule. Been there, done that, and there's no future in it. So I will ask this question as a concerned collector:

What happened to the high bidder at $175,000? Did he allow Legendary to arbitrarily STOP THE AUCTION because he felt there was a chance that the jersey he was betting BANK on would DROP in value and he'd get it on the CHEAP after Barry and Company took a MONTH looking through additional photos that may help lock up additional photographic proof it's the real deal? Now THAT'S MY KIND of GAMBLER! BOY HOWDY!!

Is anyone here falling over themselves like I am yet? Or am I just delusional over my perception of the obvious?

I am welcoming any representative from Legendary, or Barry Meisel if he cares to add comments based on knowledge he may have to the question, to set the record straight on what happened to the high bidder of this auction. The silence on this thread is deeply disturbing. I for one would never accept that as an end result on ANYTHING I was bidding on if I were in the position to win it. Not a chance. We are all asked to "play by the rules". What gives the auction house demanding that from us to act otherwise?

Steve[/QUOTE]

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Legendary Auctions

I think a review of this auction and the comments surrounding it are in order.

We had a prominent "rookie" game used Wayne Gretzky jersey up for auction in Legendary's 2014 winter auction. As most of you know, it was frozen (the sale was stopped) just before the auction ended, after what appeared to be a steady climb in bidding to bring the high bid to $175,000.

Obviously is isn't an orthodox move to stop an auction DEAD in it's tracks with the explanation that all parties would benefit from additional time to further authenticate the jersey. With almost no thought or "reasoning" expended, this simply couldn't be further from the truth for the person who was the high bidder, but we'll get to that. As a result, many skeptical comments, accusations, and speculation on what had really happened started flying. And in the mayhem, Barry Meisel of Meigray jumped in making the statement that everyone should stop their comments as they were all wrong. In all fairness, he later apologized as he didn't want to appear like he was chastising the collecting community over the strangeness of the actions displayed by Legendary to cease the auction at the eleventh hour.

What happened here? Was the jersey over-estimated in value by the auction house at $500,000? Was the provenance inadequate for big $$$ collectors? Was Legendary panicking at the perception of the jersey going for 100's of thousands less than estimated so they reacted in an attempt to save face? Was the consignor so angry that he pressured them into stopping the auction because he felt he was misled and promised something he wasn't going to receive?

Or...was it something that, without substantial proof, stating here even as an opinion, would just get you banned!?

Any of you involved in this hobby knows that a special item, in the last moments of it's auction, can at the drop of a dime get into a NASTY glorious no-holds-barred back-n-forth bidding war until the piece reaches a value no one thought possible. So it would make sense the fear of a lack of a bidding war is NOT what prompted the halt of this auction. Legendary's inexplicable deed had to be triggered by something else.

Was it not the fear, but to the contrary the absolute certainty that a bidding war was not going to take place, that prompted the cease of the auction? And if so, what relevant fact...what knowledge...led to support their concern on that?

So the jersey was halted and Legendary came out with a cute email to all of the sheep who cared to read it, not on WHY it was halted, but rather on WHAT they were going to do AFTER halting it. The collecting community was handed a sack of....well, something, I'm not sure what because we can't smell here over the internet....but it was something expressing the conundrum that "this would be in the best interest of all parties". Well, let's take a peek at that too.

Let's start with identifying the "parties" of which, in it's simplest form there are three. One would certainly be the consignor (for the sake of our discussion, lets leave out the fact the consignor could be the auction house itself, one of it's principles, or any other third party who is being represented by the person acting as the "consignor"). Yep, I can see how further authentication verifying the jersey's heritage, would help Mr. Consignor.

Second, there's the auction house performing the auction. Common sense rings true that since they receive their take from a percentage-based commission (via buyer's and sellers premiums), anything to bolster the price would work to their benefit too. Check.

Lastly, there's that dude on the other side trying to add that little gem to his collection. And that's where Legendary's explanation skids off the icy road.

To the buyer of any piece, the provenance is of utmost importance. So as was previously stated in this thread by a prior poster, the "high bidder" obviously was sold on the authenticity: He placed a $175,000 bid on the darn thing! So one could argue, how, having the rug pulled out from underneath him just before the hammer comes down and he WINS his cherished jersey, does it benefit HIM to have the auction halted to facilitate "additional authentication" when he is about to win it and is ALREADY CONVINCED OF IT'S AUTHENTICITY?? Let's all be adult here. That's not even realistic. What if the winning bidder had done his OWN research, and had found proof the jersey was real? Meigray is a FANTASTIC company and their services are precious to the collecting community. But they aren't the BE-ALL END-ALL on everything! Are you telling me Mr. Highbidder is going to sit by happily while Legendary solicits Meigray to "FIND MORE PROOF!" in an attempt to ultimately drive the value of the poorly performing jersey higher if solid additional photographic evidence is found, EVIDENCE THAT HE MAY ALREADY HAVE FROM HIS OWN DUE DILIGENCE?

There are many scenarios that can (and did) pop into the minds of collectors who expressed their dismay over the last second plug-pulling of this jersey auction. All of it, warranted, IMO.

As a fellow collector perplexed with finding out what really went down here, I find it troubling that there hasn't been one single solitary forum member or authoritative figure to demand an answer from Legendary on what happened to the high bidder as the smoke cleared from Legendary locking the brakes up on this jersey at the finish line. But that's just me, the eternal optimist believing truth will always come out at the detriment of deceit. I'm a hopeless romantic....

So, how does it end?

Legendary, with this mountain of additional data to rifle through, a plethora of additional photographic opportunity recently discovered and presented to them, drug Barry Meisel & Co. through it while manufacturing additional time to further authenticate the jersey. And the net resulting financial windfall?

A loss of $45,000 in the final bid value. The final bid on the jersey ended up being $130,000, plus the 19.5% buyer's premium for a grand total of $155,350. So much for maximizing the value from "additional time for further authentication". (Remember, that $175,000 "high bid" hadn't even been subjected to the 19.5% buyers premium yet to be added when the halting took place. We're talking almost $210 GRAND!).

The bigger question here is, when they reopened the bidding, where did all of these bidders go that previously drove the jersey to $175,000? Inquiring minds want to know. A forum member was banned for expressing his take on that, so I'm leaving it alone. No insinuations, no speculation!

There are very strict rules here on the forum, and I don't even want to walk into the same building as one that would even remotely approach the appearance of breaking a forum rule. Been there, done that, and there's no future in it. So I will ask this question as a concerned collector:

What happened to the high bidder at $175,000? Did he allow Legendary to arbitrarily STOP THE AUCTION because he felt there was a chance that the jersey he was betting BANK on would DROP in value and he'd get it on the CHEAP after Barry and Company took a MONTH looking through additional photos that may help lock up additional photographic proof it's the real deal? Now THAT'S MY KIND of GAMBLER! BOY HOWDY!!

Is anyone here falling over themselves like I am yet? Or am I just delusional over my perception of the obvious?

I am welcoming any representative from Legendary, or Barry Meisel if he cares to add comments based on knowledge he may have to the question, to set the record straight on what happened to the high bidder of this auction. The silence on this thread is deeply disturbing. I for one would never accept that as an end result on ANYTHING I was bidding on if I were in the position to win it. Not a chance. We are all asked to "play by the rules". What gives the auction house demanding that from us to act otherwise?

Steve

[commando]

Re: Legendary Auctions

An email from Legendary Auctions today:

We are pleased to announce that bidding is live on the historic 1979-80 Wayne Gretzky Rookie Jersey. We are confident that in conjunction with our partner MeiGray Authentication we made the right decision to put off the bidding in order to take the authentication process to another level.

This process culminated in a round-table discussion with the best “Gretzky” minds in the business held in Edmonton; the place where this amazing garment began its illustrious career on the back of “The Great One” over 35 years ago. Barry Meisel, Principal of MeiGray Authentication, met with respected veteran game-worn jersey collectors Shawn Chaulk, Joe Esposito and Perry Nelson. The outcome of this work yielded the following unified conclusion as detailed in the MeiGray Letter of Authenticity:

Conclusion: MeiGray and the three veteran collectors who contributed to the findings have jointly concluded that the offered jersey was worn both in the pre-season and the regular season by Wayne Gretzky. We have also concluded that other than the nameplate, which we believe was added after the 1979-80 NHL season, all other components of the jersey, including the numbers, crest, 75th Anniversary patch and manufacturer's tagging appear to be original and unaltered.

The bidding will end Thursday, January 22nd where the 30 minute rule will be in effect starting 10:00 P.M. central time for all bidders that have placed bids prior to this time.

[BaseballNutz]

Re: Legendary Auctions

In reading through my emails this weekend, I received an email that is directly related to this subject. Here is an update, word for word from my email.


Update on Gretzky Rookie Jersey From MeiGray & Legendary Auctions

Prior to the end of our November Auction we communicated that Legendary Auctions had made the decision to extend the bidding on the 1979-80 Wayne Gretzky Rookie Jersey in our current auction to allow our staff and the MeiGray Authentication team to do additional research.

As a reminder the goal was to find clear full back shots from this season as the authentication process fell short of offering this match. The two photo archives our partner MeiGray gained access to unfortunately did not provide any quality back shots that would enable us to nail down this final piece of the authentication puzzle. That being said they have identified other avenues to finalize the authentication of this historic jersey.

Legendary, MeiGray and our Consignor all agree that it is important to cover every base possible.

As a result we are taking down the auction of the jersey to allow MeiGray to pursue these other avenues that we pray will be fruitful. The definitive timeline is as follows:
· MeiGray will complete the final step of their work by January 9th, 2015
· Legendary Auctions will document the additional findings in the write-up.
· Existing bidders will be given the opportunity to occupy the same spots they currently hold in the bidding process.
· Bidding will commence Monday January 13th and the auction will end January 23rd.
We appreciate Barry Meisel and the team at MeiGray working tirelessly to take the necessary steps to ensure every possible aspect of this jersey is addressed.


Sounds like all of the bidders were placed on hold, but will be able to keep their place in the bidding once it re-opens.

Dave

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Legendary Auctions

As far as I'm aware the actual authenticity of the item has never been questioned. The sole reason to extend the bidding is to achieve a higher hammer price.

The auction started with an authenticated jersey and a style match provided.. At this point NOTHING has changed.. If the original date approached with a 500k bid, the. I'm sure Legendary would not feel the need to provide a conclusive match.

The auction house and consigner were aware that a conclusive match had not been established prior to the auction starting and at that point should have decided to hold the item until a match was found. Or run with a style match and let the auction end at the established time.

Also, extending the auction is based on the POSSIBILITY of finding a conclusive match within the next month.. What happens if one is not found? Will bidders be able to retract bids since the title and write-up advertise a "100%" match?

If I consign an item with Legendary and am not happy with the "final" price.. Will they extend the auction if a record/HOF induction/MVP/Championship etc. is a POSSIBILITY within the next month or so?

This practice is good for Legendary and the consigner.. But a bad precedent for the hobby. Hopefully this is not tolerated by the community.

Yes, well written, but lacking the outrage. Jimmy, these guys are writing their own rules. And here's the cold, hard facts: There ain't a thing we can do about it.

Only the high bidder can.

How can the high bidder stand for it? Was it "understood" the item should draw a much higher price, so "collectively" the bidders essentially pulled out because there was behind-the-scenes chatter going on that further research needed to be done and the reigning high bid would not be honored? Was the high bidder made aware of this tiny little fact that he had wasted his time committing a small fortune to an item whose hammer price would not he honored? I don't remember seeing in the description or next to the offer price ANYTHING stating there was a "reserve" placed on the auction?

We still don't know what really happened here.

Am I the only one here scratching my head? This smells so bad I need to leave the room.


(Please keep the applause to a minimum, thank you )

[Roady]

Re: Legendary Auctions

It was a non-Cavalier gesture on Barry's part.

LOL

Too many Chris'

Ever see that show "Everyone hates Chris"?

[BVC]

Re: Legendary Auctions

Roady,
Barry was replying to 'ShaimOnYou's thread. His name is Chris. He was not talking about Chris Cavalier.

It was a non-Cavalier gesture on Barry's part.

[nickacs]

Re: Legendary Auctions

Roady,
Barry was replying to 'ShaimOnYou's thread. His name is Chris. He was not talking about Chris Cavalier.

[Roady]

Re: Legendary Auctions

Thanks for the comments, Chris.

I would like to know a little more about you, so I can tell you a little more about me.

Please email me at bmeisel@meigray.com

Barry

Wait what? You guys know each other or not?

Chris Cavalier - "I will add that in knowing Barry personally, that has been my experience with him. That is, Barry has always responded to questions and has tried to keep collectors informed when information is requested.

Thank you Barry for taking the time to explain the situation and I hope you will continue to keep us apprised of the situation.

Sincerely,
Chris"

[Phil316]

Re: Legendary Auctions

Well written comment Jimmy. I agree with you 100%.

[3arod13]

Re: Legendary Auctions

As far as I'm aware the actual authenticity of the item has never been questioned. The sole reason to extend the bidding is to achieve a higher hammer price.

The auction started with an authenticated jersey and a style match provided.. At this point NOTHING has changed.. If the original date approached with a 500k bid, the. I'm sure Legendary would not feel the need to provide a conclusive match.

The auction house and consigner were aware that a conclusive match had not been established prior to the auction starting and at that point should have decided to hold the item until a match was found. Or run with a style match and let the auction end at the established time.

Also, extending the auction is based on the POSSIBILITY of finding a conclusive match within the next month.. What happens if one is not found? Will bidders be able to retract bids since the title and write-up advertise a "100%" match?

If I consign an item with Legendary and am not happy with the "final" price.. Will they extend the auction if a record/HOF induction/MVP/Championship etc. is a POSSIBILITY within the next month or so?

This practice is good for Legendary and the consigner.. But a bad precedent for the hobby. Hopefully this is not tolerated by the community.

Jimmy,

+1. Great points!!

[GoTigers]

Re: Legendary Auctions

As far as I'm aware the actual authenticity of the item has never been questioned. The sole reason to extend the bidding is to achieve a higher hammer price.

The auction started with an authenticated jersey and a style match provided.. At this point NOTHING has changed.. If the original date approached with a 500k bid, the. I'm sure Legendary would not feel the need to provide a conclusive match.

The auction house and consigner were aware that a conclusive match had not been established prior to the auction starting and at that point should have decided to hold the item until a match was found. Or run with a style match and let the auction end at the established time.

Also, extending the auction is based on the POSSIBILITY of finding a conclusive match within the next month.. What happens if one is not found? Will bidders be able to retract bids since the title and write-up advertise a "100%" match?

If I consign an item with Legendary and am not happy with the "final" price.. Will they extend the auction if a record/HOF induction/MVP/Championship etc. is a POSSIBILITY within the next month or so?

This practice is good for Legendary and the consigner.. But a bad precedent for the hobby. Hopefully this is not tolerated by the community.

[BarryMeisel]

Re: Legendary Auctions

Thanks for the comments, Chris.

I would like to know a little more about you, so I can tell you a little more about me.

Please email me at bmeisel@meigray.com

Barry