Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

[G1X]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

Mark,

For the ones that have not been around that long, can we hear that story?

I love stories!

To make a very long story short, two guys who were into collecting and selling Bucs memorabilia such as photos, autographs, gloves, etc., somehow ended up obtaining a large number of Bucs jerseys that were from 1997 through around 1999. There were multiple jerseys of many players with the majority showing game use, and a number of them marked in the tail tag with the equipment manager's initials and a date (presumably the date of the game or the date the jersey was first worn, but the date was not always completely accurate). It appears that the Bucs better players were wearing a new jersey in almost every game in 1998 - or at least that appears to have been the plan.

These gentlemen admittedly did not have much knowledge of game-used jerseys, and they started listing them on ebay. After I had bought a couple and realized that they had many more, I contacted them directly and ended up purchasing every jersey they had remaining of some of the better players on the roster at that time. For example, I had close to a dozen of Hardy Nickerson, Trent Dilfer, and a few others. Most were tailored and showed nice game wear, and a few were either mint or were not tailored to begin with (obvious for guys like Nickerson whose jersey was highly customized).

All in all, the jerseys did not have any type of provenance or garner high prices, but there was never any doubt that the jerseys were legit.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[Mattapan03]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

I agree with the below post. As a seller, I would never expect to get any real value for items that certainly deserve and would garner more at a professional auction. Nobody is really shopping on ebay willing to spend some of the prices these jersey's are worth.

For lack of better words, ebay is just a dumping ground for junk, and the buyers hunt for cheap deals as if they're haggling at GoodWill. I think all of us on here, myself included, are guilty of that too.

This Willis jersey fits this mold. I cannot comment one way or another on its legitimacy because Im not an expert on 49ers stuff, but seeing this on ebay for $200 does not surprise me....legit or not

[solarlottry]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

I agree with Loomis to some extent as that it would appear strange that two Willis shirts would come from the same seller and only garner bids up to 200$ on eBay. I think there is an explanation for this as bidders are looking for a bargain on eBay plus without provenance bidders are scared off. Most assume the shirt is fake just because it is on eBay and listed cheaply to start. If the item does not get bid up it further scares off other bidders thus the low price.

I am in no way passing judgement on the Willis shirts but from my recent experience with another seller I met through eBay multiple gamers of the same player do leave 49er HQ and are sold. Of course I was a bit cautious at first buying shirts that seemingly are impossible to find except via NFL Auctions but every shirt I have purchased has been photo matched. This does not mean the Willis shirts are legit but does mean that there are sellers out there with connections that do get 49er gamers from the last 3 seasons and that at times they get multiple shirts of the same player.

With regards to the sellers eBay policies one of the sellers I deal with regularly also has similar policies (no returns etc) but does not demand payment immediately. Again I can see how these policies are a turn off and can raise suspicion but I guess it boils down to how much risk one wants to take.

This is what I have acquired recently from the last three seasons:
2012 Frank Gore away
2013 Anquan Boldin home-his first 49er jersey
2013 Anquan Boldin away-worn vs AZ and vs Carolina and Seattle in the playoffs
2013 Eric Reid away-worn in NFC championship game
2013 Vance McDonald home
2013 Bruce Miller away
2013 Ahmed Brooks away
2013 Alex Boone away
2013 Lawrence Okoye away
2011 Michael Wilhoite away

Plus I have had to turn down multiple shirts due to a number of factors. So they do exist and it is possible (I did not say likely) that the same seller could have multiple shirts of the same player, especially the road shirt as they seem more available than the home red.

Always buying 49er gamers!
Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

[Samets]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

That's precisely what happened with Tampa Bay Bucs jerseys about 12 years ago. I am sure that Jake and others remember that well. ...

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

Mark,

For the ones that have not been around that long, can we hear that story?

I love stories!

[G1X]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

Here's the bottom line.....MULTIPLE Patrick Willis jerseys DO NOT walk out of the stadium.... worth 4 thousand dollars each.... and end up on eBay..... both from the same seller.... with a price of 200 bucks. Nothing else I can say.

That's precisely what happened with Tampa Bay Bucs jerseys about 12 years ago. I am sure that Jake and others remember that well.

While I perfectly understand your concerns with the Willis jerseys, I am not about to enter into a debate about the legitimacy of the jerseys or the seller as I have no opinion or comment one way or the other. The main reason for my post was to wholeheartedly agree with Paul's statement about provenance, and for folks to be absolutely sure before pointing fingers due to the damage it can inflict.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[beachpetrol]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

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I don't think Professor Plum is trying to sell the jersey.

[Roady]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

Great info. Thanks. I think we're getting closer to figuring this out now.

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[beachpetrol]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

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Great info. Thanks. I think we're getting closer to figuring this out now.

[Roady]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

I don't think you owe the seller any apology whatsoever. Your concerns are legit. I feel, there is actually a very very small chance that it could be the same jersey. Does anyone know if removing and replacing a screened on number on a jersey, is a possible thing to do?

Also, if this seller is credible and has provenance, whether it be player or locker room or whatever, why is he saying all sales are final and demanding payment as soon as the auction ends? His wording in the auction descriptions not mentioning game issued or game worn/used, is very suspicious as well.

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[beachpetrol]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

Thank you my friend. The description of the second jersey states that it shows use. Does that not IMPLY use from Patrick Willis? If not was the use from a backyard touch football game with the in laws? Who used it? I Smell a rat and I know that ANY knowledgeable collector on these boards does too.

Do you, or anyone else for that matter, know if removing and replacing a screened on number is a possible thing to do? Reason I ask, check out the front 5 on both jerseys. To me, the second one looks a little more elongated.

[DoctorLoomis]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

Well said, Paul. Like you, numerous jerseys in my collection have little or no provenance, especially the older jerseys. Does this make our jerseys questionable or no good? Of course not.

I realize that some collectors depend on COAs, professional authentication, provenance, or other proof that the item is what it supposed to be, but keep in mind that there are numerous collectors who collect specific teams, players, etc. (such as Paul with the 49ers) who have the knowledge and expertise to determine for themselves.

Please, before posting in this Forum about "fake" and questionable items, be absolutely sure, beyond any doubt, that you are 100% correct. Otherwise, you are doing a disservice to not only the person trying to sell the item, but also to the hobby in general.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

Mark I understand you perfectly. However, we're not talking about an older jersey here. Here's the bottom line.....MULTIPLE Patrick Willis jerseys DO NOT walk out of the stadium.... worth 4 thousand dollars each.... and end up on eBay..... both from the same seller.... with a price of 200 bucks. Nothing else I can say.

[DoctorLoomis]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

I don't think you owe the seller any apology whatsoever. Your concerns are legit. I feel, there is actually a very very small chance that it could be the same jersey. Does anyone know if removing and replacing a screened on number on a jersey, is a possible thing to do?

Also, if this seller is credible and has provenance, whether it be player or locker room or whatever, why is he saying all sales are final and demanding payment as soon as the auction ends? His wording in the auction descriptions not mentioning game issued or game worn/used, is very suspicious as well.

Thank you my friend. The description of the second jersey states that it shows use. Does that not IMPLY use from Patrick Willis? If not was the use from a backyard touch football game with the in laws? Who used it? I Smell a rat and I know that ANY knowledgeable collector on these boards does too.

[beachpetrol]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

Crickets? No its called having a family, a career and a life outside of collecting memorabilia. Further I already admitted I was wrong.... publicly.... that the two jerseys were different. However I stand by my remark that Patrick Willis jerseys don't just pop up with zero provenance.. especially more than one from the same seller. It seems that people share my thoughts exactly since the first jersey brought a lowly $200 or so. If I'm wrong then so be it.... by my suspicions.... shared with most on this board.... is the jersey with the hit marks and transfer marks" was never ever worn by Patrick Willis. If you disagree then get your money on the table and buy it.

I don't think you owe the seller any apology whatsoever. Your concerns are legit. I feel, there is actually a very very small chance that it could be the same jersey. Does anyone know if removing and replacing a screened on number on a jersey, is a possible thing to do?

Also, if this seller is credible and has provenance, whether it be player or locker room or whatever, why is he saying all sales are final and demanding payment as soon as the auction ends? His wording in the auction descriptions not mentioning game issued or game worn/used, is very suspicious as well.

[DoctorLoomis]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

Crickets from Loomis.............

Crickets? No its called having a family, a career and a life outside of collecting memorabilia. Further I already admitted I was wrong.... publicly.... that the two jerseys were different. However I stand by my remark that Patrick Willis jerseys don't just pop up with zero provenance.. especially more than one from the same seller. It seems that people share my thoughts exactly since the first jersey brought a lowly $200 or so. If I'm wrong then so be it.... by my suspicions.... shared with most on this board.... is the jersey with the hit marks and transfer marks" was never ever worn by Patrick Willis. If you disagree then get your money on the table and buy it.

[Roady]

Re: Patrick Willis...No Game Use to Lots of Game Use!

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