2017 HOF voting

[3arod13]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Just a quick correction for you: he didn't have steroids in his urine. Canseco said he injected him and later when a reporter asked if his name would appear on the leaked 2003 anonymous testing list—his response was "only God knows."

My error. Thanks!

[emann]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

I knew about Pudge. Wasn't aware about Bagwell. In an interview in 2009, after Pudge had a little steroids in his urine, he was asked did he do it. His reply was "only God knows."

Just a quick correction for you: he didn't have steroids in his urine. Canseco said he injected him and later when a reporter asked if his name would appear on the leaked 2003 anonymous testing list—his response was "only God knows."

Thrilled for Raines, surprised by Rodriguez . . . Clemens/Bonds should already be in and Manny should be right after them.

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Ok, now the precedent has been set.....let all the big sluggers from the steroid era in.

[Bondsgloves]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

2 steroid users and a player who admitted using cocaine during games.

[3arod13]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Pretty shocking that Vlad missed out. I believe his lack of an attempt to learn English and engage with the media probably cost him the few votes he needed to get over the hump.
Pudge and Bagwell, definite steroid guys are in, which is exciting, the rest of the guys should be following.

I knew about Pudge. Wasn't aware about Bagwell. In an interview in 2009, after Pudge had a little steroids in his urine, he was asked did he do it. His reply was "only God knows."

[Nnunnari]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Pretty shocking that Vlad missed out. I believe his lack of an attempt to learn English and engage with the media probably cost him the few votes he needed to get over the hump.
Pudge and Bagwell, definite steroid guys are in, which is exciting, the rest of the guys should be following.

[gorilla777]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Raines, Bagwell and Pudge

Bummed that Vladdy just missed out this year

[gorilla777]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Here's the new link:

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!8063&ithint=file,xlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AAAsz3uDsmqy_Vw

[KGoldin]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

one thing I notice about this years voting so far is it appears to me that 2018 induction will include Edgar Martinez

If you factor in the fact that McGriff lost a prime season due to strike, he is a 500 Home run club member. If you take the no steroid use at face value as fact, there has never been a 500 horn run club non steroid tainted member not in the hall. I also looked at his stats again today and he really was a model of consistency. I believe he will get in the hall of fame by veterans committee but not by writers.

[truvalue123]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Obviously Victor Conte made it...

[Chris78]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Not disagreeing with you in any way, but your McGriff argument (off the cuff one sentence) is no good. If they induct him, then the next "highest amount of home runs for anyone not associated with PED use" is Carlos Delgado, why by the way has 20 less homers than McGriff in 1500 less at-bats. You have just fallen down a slippery slope!

McGriff had more than 400 hits than Delgado. He was also a 5 x All Star. McGriff was a better player than Delgado, although I can see your comparison.

The point you are missing is that I view McGriff as a non steroid user. Some of these other players have used steroids and their stats were inflated as a result. Would their stats be any better than McGriff as a result? Is it fair to induct someone with better inflated stats as a result? Using Delgado as a comparison does not work then because he is not as good as McGriff, and McGriff is on the fringe area.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Your view of Manny is way too extreme. One thing that needs to be considered is that his stats would not be as good without the use of PED's. If he hit 450 home runs without PED's, would he be the greatest right handed hitter of all time. I do not think so.

I like your view of McGriff though. He has the highest amount of home runs for anyone not associated to PED use that is not already in the Hall of Fame. I have always felt that in order for some of the PED guys to get in such as Manny, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, etc., McGriff needs to be inducted first. He would be my 10th ballot selection if I voted for 10 people on this year's ballot. Are any of those guys better than McGriff without the PED use? I feel that is something that people need to consider, and truth be told, may be the best way for these PED guys to get inducted at some point.

Not disagreeing with you in any way, but your McGriff argument (off the cuff one sentence) is no good. If they induct him, then the next "highest amount of home runs for anyone not associated with PED use" is Carlos Delgado, why by the way has 20 less homers than McGriff in 1500 less at-bats. You have just fallen down a slippery slope!

[GoCrazyFolks76]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Someone like A Rod, ramped up his offseason training as he got older and was able to maintain great mechanics aside from battling injuries.

I don't think using ARod is a great example as he clearly juiced in order to "ramp up his offseason training". One of the best things about steroids is they help you help you heal faster.

It's hard to fault Pujols for struggling with injuries becaus he doesn't juice.

I'm pretty sure that none of these guys we're discussing would have had the longevity they had and continued production had it not been for steroids.

[nevrdiez34]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Counting stats are cool. The SLG% and OPS aren't even close. McGwire amassed a higher career WAR in 500 less games, while playing a position that will not aid your wins above replacement from a defensive standpoint. 500.

I respect your opinion, but counting stats are a part of baseball. They were both on steroids for a significant stretch of their careers, but playing alongside Jose Canseco from the get go, I couldn't tell you if Mark played a clean game in his career. Steroids also tend to play a role in a lot of injuries. To me, Sosa was more of a complete player than McGwire, though I am admittedly based being a Cubs fan. I just don't see why Sosa gets such low voting percentages even among the steroid guys.

[Chris78]

Re: 2017 HOF voting

Albert Pujols is clearly a better player than Manny Ramirez....Not even a discussion there.