Card Companies and "Game Used" Cards

[suave1477]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

Some general comments on this whole topic from a fellow who's been g-u collecting about 4 years. First, I agree that card companies take an enormous risk when they buy on the secondary market. They've claimed in the past that they do so only when the item is autenticated by a reputable company, but I've developed no trust in any authenticator as a result of what I've read over the past 4 years. Since the card companies now say they buy only from MLBPA-approved sources, it seems the MLBPA is also risking its reputation by approving any questionable sources. I also agree that vintage items ( eg a Ruth bat) should not be cut up.

However, I disagree with those of you who attack the whole idea of memorabilia cards. Many of us don't have either space or budgetary resources to accrue lots of whole bats or jerseys like some of you have. I don't have to hide a $10 bat-piece card from my wife, but if I'd bought the whole bat for $500 I'd have more explaining to do! Plus the card takes up a lot less space than the bat would, especially if I bought a number of them over time. And surely there are enough cracked bats over the course of a 2430-game season to satisfy us all.

Just for the sake of those of us who lack the space and finances to collect lots of whole items, let's allow memorabilia cards some tolerance so we can enhance our own hobby participation in an affordable way. I might add that I never pay more than $15, ( usually no more than $10) for a card, as I don't trust the authenticity of anything enough to risk bigger bucks. And I trust the law of averages; if I buy 30 g-u cards, surely a fair number of them will be authentic even if a few are not. I find the idea that card companies and the MLBPA would gamble their reputations on a tidal flood of fakes to be too far out for credibility.

Coxfan I don't thing in a broad spectrum anyone has a problem with you directly for collecting those cards.

But do all the math behind it. Is it really a more affordable way to get a piece of the item???
Let's say you pay your max $10 to $15 for a card. Which only includes a tiny sliver of the bat. Which percentage wise of the actual bat is less then a penny value (less then 1 cent). So your paying $10 or $15 for something worth less then 1 cent.

If you hold off on 5 or 10 cards that's $50 to a $100 in your pocket that you can buy a whole bat. Which is ten time more valuable then a tiny sliver.

You said also for the guys who can't afford the big ticket items its a more affordable way.
This is just my opinion and nothing against you.
But if I can;t afford something then I don't buy it.

I don't go to a BMW dealership and say can I just buy the hood of the car because I can;t afford the rest. NO.
I save my money till I can get the real thing.

But the problem I think mos to f us feel is.
1) By having these cards with the pieces your realistically ruining memorabilia by cutting it or chopping it up
2) As much as we would like to believe the card companines are just holding out for the broken & cracked bats to come along to chop up. Is highly doubtable.
I am sure whatever comes across there path gets axed.
3) Towards the collectors of these items as long as the card companies have you, they will continue to ruin good Game Used memorabilia.
4) Even worse some of the memorabilia is not reliable and to these collectors are getting taken, for something they think that they are getting something because they think it is more affordable.

Think of it like this also (Math quiz) - This is just a hypothetical example!!

You spend $10 a card for 5 cards - $50
$50 can get you an actual bat or Jersey

The card company that cut up that bat or Jersey. is cutting it up into small pieces.
Which your paying $10 on and for the thousands of pieces they are getting out of that item.
They are making $1,000 off an item that they now ruined that they orginally paid $50 for and your paying $10 for a piece.

[coxfan]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

Some general comments on this whole topic from a fellow who's been g-u collecting about 4 years. First, I agree that card companies take an enormous risk when they buy on the secondary market. They've claimed in the past that they do so only when the item is autenticated by a reputable company, but I've developed no trust in any authenticator as a result of what I've read over the past 4 years. Since the card companies now say they buy only from MLBPA-approved sources, it seems the MLBPA is also risking its reputation by approving any questionable sources. I also agree that vintage items ( eg a Ruth bat) should not be cut up.

However, I disagree with those of you who attack the whole idea of memorabilia cards. Many of us don't have either space or budgetary resources to accrue lots of whole bats or jerseys like some of you have. I don't have to hide a $10 bat-piece card from my wife, but if I'd bought the whole bat for $500 I'd have more explaining to do! Plus the card takes up a lot less space than the bat would, especially if I bought a number of them over time. And surely there are enough cracked bats over the course of a 2430-game season to satisfy us all.

Just for the sake of those of us who lack the space and finances to collect lots of whole items, let's allow memorabilia cards some tolerance so we can enhance our own hobby participation in an affordable way. I might add that I never pay more than $15, ( usually no more than $10) for a card, as I don't trust the authenticity of anything enough to risk bigger bucks. And I trust the law of averages; if I buy 30 g-u cards, surely a fair number of them will be authentic even if a few are not. I find the idea that card companies and the MLBPA would gamble their reputations on a tidal flood of fakes to be too far out for credibility.

[xpress34]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

Wow, I didn't reealize that people faked patches on cards. It's a conspiracy!

OH YEAH.... check out Sports Card Forum (SCF) sometime (sportscardforum.com) - there are always articles about bad cards out there for sale...

As far as PATCH cards, there are some basic easy to follow guidelines:

1) If the card says Game Used Jersey, NOT Patch and it's a multi colored Patch - it's probably a fake

2) If it's a PATCH card that is either NOT #'d or is #'d over 25 - it's probably a fake, and for the most part, PATCH cards are #'d to 10 or less.

Just a quick FYI!!!

- Chris

[xpress34]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

Anyone see the Honus Wagner Sterling 1/1 bat barrel card. I believe with that signature on it, it's from a replica mini bat. A few of those on ebay and sig looks same as those. Anyone see a Wagner bat with this style of signature on it?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=290290071438

Well the guy who pulled it made his payday - $11,100.00 was the winning bid!!!!!

- Chris

[suave1477]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

Is the autograph on this Kurt Warner swatch below the stitching?

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/jdworley/03%20Limited%20Prime/LT-64%20Kurt%20Warner.jpg

[ATTACH]23930[/ATTACH]

Eric great catch!!!

That is a blaintant as it gets that this was not a game used piece.

It disgusts me what these card companies put in these cards and some poor guy probably paid a premium on that one.

[joelsabi]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

you got to love the premium dealers are asking for three colors game used swatches. someone tell what i am missing.

[Eric]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

Is the autograph on this Kurt Warner swatch below the stitching?

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/jdworley/03%20Limited%20Prime/LT-64%20Kurt%20Warner.jpg

[Ollie]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

I found this video from Topps in which they tour the 'Relic Room' and explain how they prepare the items for their relic cards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzDa5jgVV-8

The view of the cut up Mantle jersey and bat makes me want to cry

[cincy13]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

I know some of the high end jerseys in the Barry Halper/Sotheby's auction were won by card companies. I believe this includes the Ty Cobb Athletics jersey.

If I remember right, alot of Halper's high end jersey's were proven later to be bogus. I wonder, did they end up being cut up?

[kingjammy24]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

what surprises me is the massive level of trust required in these game-used cards. typically when a collector evaluates a game-used item, they've got the entire item to look at in order to see how the whole thing measures up. at times, collecting some of these game-used items can be a complex thing. ultimately, each collector decides if they're comfortable with a piece based on what they see in the piece and what they know.

with game-used cards, all of that is thrown completely out the window. there's nothing to ascertain. you're given a 2"x2" swatch of fabric or square of wood and told "this is a piece of mantle's bat" or "this is a piece of gehrig's jersey". the evidence? none. you've just got to completely and wholly place every ounce of your trust in upper deck or donruss or whoever. wow. people talk about the leaps of faith required in this hobby but the leaps required in collecting game-used cards seem to go beyond religious proportions. there's probably more evidence pointing to the existence of God than there is to a 2"x2" piece of wood being from lou gehrig's bat.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/2006/02/19/2006-02-19_a_sign_of_the_times__forgeri.html

rudy.

[woody1351]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

i really like this thread i usually dont read everything written but i did on this one. very informative

[spartakid]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

Wow, I didn't reealize that people faked patches on cards. It's a conspiracy!

[frikativ54]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

I found this on ebay. Either some one tried to fake a patch or Upper Deck is just buying authentic jersey.

That linked image is gone, but some people like to fake patches. A regular old white swatch isn't worth much these days, but a con-man can insert a multi-colored patch card and get $100+ from the sale. So - you have to be really careful that you are getting what is advertised.

[indyred]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

Anyone see the Honus Wagner Sterling 1/1 bat barrel card. I believe with that signature on it, it's from a replica mini bat. A few of those on ebay and sig looks same as those. Anyone see a Wagner bat with this style of signature on it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290290071438

[Texans]

Re: How do card companies get game used items?

I found this on ebay. Either some one tried to fake a patch or Upper Deck is just buying authentic jersey.