Interesting thread from another forum

[hblakewolf]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

Wow this is a popular topic on two game worn sites right now. Just to clarify, Custom Crafted had no involvement in the Gretzky jersey scandal. There criminal activity was relegated to putting out Bruins, Devils, Blues, and Whalers jerseys with fake wear. I posted the following on another site this morning so hopefully it will shed some light for those of you who have no idea what transpired.

Custom Crafted is a lettering company located in No. Attleboro, Ma. They did the lettering for the Bruins, Devils, and I think the Whalers and Blues. I can speak mostly for Bruins jerseys involved in this scandal since that is what I'm most familiar with. They used a game issued jersey since there is no difference at all between a legit jersey and a CC Special as far as the actual jersey itself. A lot were set stamped just like a legit gamer. They would apply manufactured wear to these jerseys in the form of fake stick marks, abrasions to the jersey which looked like they were done with a sharp implement, red lipstick type marks to try to resemble dasher marks (but it was the wrong color), fake interior wear located in the wrong places (for example you would find pilling directly on the elbow reinforcement not where it is supposed to be as well as pilling on the collar occasionally), wrinkling of the crest, no corrosion in the fight strap snaps, etc. The jersey would look hardly washed but have all this bogus wear on it. I never saw many fake repairs on Bruins CC Specials but I think Devils jerseys had them fairly often. So basically you would have a game issued jerseys with fake wear being passed off as a legit gamers by the company who lettered them. Most were relegated to star players (Bourque, Neely, Oates) but there are plenty of others that were introduced into the hobby as well. With Bruins there is everything from bogus regular home and roads, Last Hurrahs, TBC's, and All Star patched jerseys floating around out there. I would say that unless you have seen some CC Specials in the past or are very knowledgable about the hobby you could easily be fooled by them. Fortunately Milt Byron uncovered this unscrupulous activity many years ago and since he is a close friend of mine I was able to see a lot of it first hand so was educated about it directly.

Neely8-

Great information!

Can you or another Forum reader identify who was behind the bogus Gretzky jerseys?

Hard to believe this has gone unanswered, with Barry Meisel and other well-educated hockey experts on this site.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[Neely8]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

Wow this is a popular topic on two game worn sites right now. Just to clarify, Custom Crafted had no involvement in the Gretzky jersey scandal. There criminal activity was relegated to putting out Bruins, Devils, Blues, and Whalers jerseys with fake wear. I posted the following on another site this morning so hopefully it will shed some light for those of you who have no idea what transpired.

Custom Crafted is a lettering company located in No. Attleboro, Ma. They did the lettering for the Bruins, Devils, and I think the Whalers and Blues. I can speak mostly for Bruins jerseys involved in this scandal since that is what I'm most familiar with. They used a game issued jersey since there is no difference at all between a legit jersey and a CC Special as far as the actual jersey itself. A lot were set stamped just like a legit gamer. They would apply manufactured wear to these jerseys in the form of fake stick marks, abrasions to the jersey which looked like they were done with a sharp implement, red lipstick type marks to try to resemble dasher marks (but it was the wrong color), fake interior wear located in the wrong places (for example you would find pilling directly on the elbow reinforcement not where it is supposed to be as well as pilling on the collar occasionally), wrinkling of the crest, no corrosion in the fight strap snaps, etc. The jersey would look hardly washed but have all this bogus wear on it. I never saw many fake repairs on Bruins CC Specials but I think Devils jerseys had them fairly often. So basically you would have a game issued jerseys with fake wear being passed off as a legit gamers by the company who lettered them. Most were relegated to star players (Bourque, Neely, Oates) but there are plenty of others that were introduced into the hobby as well. With Bruins there is everything from bogus regular home and roads, Last Hurrahs, TBC's, and All Star patched jerseys floating around out there. I would say that unless you have seen some CC Specials in the past or are very knowledgable about the hobby you could easily be fooled by them. Fortunately Milt Byron uncovered this unscrupulous activity many years ago and since he is a close friend of mine I was able to see a lot of it first hand so was educated about it directly.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

was custom crafted the manufacturer of the jerseys in question or were they just a lettering/numbering/customizing shop? did they actually make these jerseys or just letter them up for teams?

rudy.

[hblakewolf]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

For those of you who don't know, this was one of the biggest issues the hockey game worn community encountered. It pales compared the the "CC Special" debacle but it was close.

Brad Foote now owns his own company called IceHouse. He has had some of the greatest and most plentiful array of jerseys ever assembled Most people know who Barry Meisel is and Milt Byron is known as the Godfather of Hockey game worns. He has literally brought tens of thousands of shirts through the hobby and even novice collectors looking through his old price lists will ooh and ahh over the multitude of shirts and how cheap they once were (He sold a Racers Wayne Gretzky for $7500. Add at least another zero on that price now)

The thread in question shows a few things. The first is integrity and the fact that rather than simply pull an item, the parties in question explained why and all details pertaining to them. Very transparent and I can think of a few collectors on this board who rather value that quality.

The second is that, as Milt has always said, Do Your Homework. After reading the Lebron Mears A5 thread, it is obvious to me that every item must be independently researched and maticulously questioned before purchased. This board is a true asset in that we have a great knowledge base amongst the members. If you aren't satisfied that the item is 1000% authentic, walk away. That would be my advice anyway.

Third, like most hobbies, if there is money to be made, there is somebody who can brilliantly fake anything. A Japanese businessman spend $4 mililon dollars on a Van Gogh painting that was perfectly faked. (Carbon dating was the only way to disprove it. The canvas was from the correct time, a few of the paints were not) There are fake Honus Wagner T206 baseball cards that sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am not even going to discuss eBay and the millions of fakes online right now.

Lastly, the Custom Crafted Special that Milt refers to was even more amazing that what eBay Guy did. Imagine Steiner taking 0063 game issued Majestic jerseys, making them up for every big name player on the Yankees and adding wear then selling then as game worn. Now imagine doing it in the 1980s and early 90's before the average fan had access to Getty, Google, the internet, etc. How would you know they weren't real? Right! You wouldn't. Every marker pointed towards authenticity. CC was the official customizer of all of the Boston Bruins game used jerseys which means they made every real game used shirt. Then they added fake wear to countless Cam Neely, Ray Bourque, Adam Oats, etc shirts and sold them as game worn.

These weren't $150 shirts, they were thousands of dollars each. Many people in the hockey game worn hobby (including me) will never own a late 80's/ early 90's Cam Neely or Ray Bourque jersey because unless they are undoubtable photomatched, there is no way to know it's not a CC Special.

Gingi79-

Thanks for the additional information and insight to this issue.

Not being familiar with this, are you indicating that "CC" (Custom Crafted?) was behind introducing fake Bruins jerseys into the hobby?

Based on your statement, "this was one of the biggest issues the hockey game worn community encountered.", and the fact that this issue was first surfaced in 2001, 8 year after the fact one would believe that those individuals who fabricated the Gretzky jerseys would be common knowledge in the hockey collecting community, correct? Was it ever determined who fabricated and introduced the fake Gretzky's into the hobby?

Thanks.
Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[kudu]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

And also to add to the question,who is milt?.He is one of the nicest guys i've ever had the pleasure to deal with.You would be hard pressed to find a nicer guy in the game used industry.And to me,he is the know all expert when it comes to game used hockey items.If anyone can help you with anything you want to know about game used hockey,it's milt.He is the yoda of game used hockey-he's the best!!!!

I agree. When I first started collecting game jerseys, he was one of the first guys I dealt with. Very knowledgeable guy.

[jobathenut]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

And also to add to the question,who is milt?.He is one of the nicest guys i've ever had the pleasure to deal with.You would be hard pressed to find a nicer guy in the game used industry.And to me,he is the know all expert when it comes to game used hockey items.If anyone can help you with anything you want to know about game used hockey,it's milt.He is the yoda of game used hockey-he's the best!!!!

Milt is Milt Byron of Byrons Hockeyland. He is one of the founders of the game worn hockey jersey industry.

[sportscentury]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

I think Milt wanted the thread deleted so that the person in question, who was manufacturing the jerseys, would not be able to start to cover his tracks or come up with some kind of defense or excuse for his actions because he was exposed. If that information was continued to be made public he would have more time to prepare and know how to handle and the subsequent turmoil a lot better. Kind of like when you have a raid, you don't want the perpetrator to know it's coming.

Neely, thanks ... got it.

[Neely8]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

Neely, thanks. I started typing my last post before you made your first one. Just read both of your posts. Not asking you to speak for Milt, but since you know him well, what are your thoughts as to why he would want the thread deleted? When I read the thread, I immediately thought about how the thread may help to protect collectors from getting burned. Just curious.

I think Milt wanted the thread deleted so that the person in question, who was manufacturing the jerseys, would not be able to start to cover his tracks or come up with some kind of defense or excuse for his actions because he was exposed. If that information was continued to be made public he would have more time to prepare and know how to handle and the subsequent turmoil a lot better. Kind of like when you have a raid, you don't want the perpetrator to know it's coming.

[Lokee]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

https://www.byronshockeyland.com

NHL game worn expert

[sportscentury]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

Milt is Milt Byron of Byrons Hockeyland. He is one of the founders of the game worn hockey jersey industry.

Neely, thanks. I started typing my last post before you made your first one. Just read both of your posts. Not asking you to speak for Milt, but since you know him well, what are your thoughts as to why he would want the thread deleted? When I read the thread, I immediately thought about how the thread may help to protect collectors from getting burned. Just curious.

[Neely8]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

Milt is Milt Byron of Byrons Hockeyland. He is one of the founders of the game worn hockey jersey industry.

[sportscentury]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some guy named Milt responds:

I think first and foremost this thread needs to be deleted.

We are obviously dealing with some type of crime here and we do not need all the evidence, background work and what should be done next broadcasted all over the this website.

[...]

Thanks Milt
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Please excuse my ignorance, as I'm not a hockey guy. Who is Milt?

[Neely8]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

These weren't $150 shirts, they were thousands of dollars each. Many people in the hockey game worn hobby (including me) will never own a late 80's/ early 90's Cam Neely or Ray Bourque jersey because unless they are undoubtable photomatched, there is no way to know it's not a CC Special.

I disagree. There are plenty of characteristics that differentiate Custom Crafted Specials/fakes from legitimate game worn jerseys. You just have to be very knowledgable in that realm to be able to assess the real wear from the fake wear applied by the criminals at Custom Crafted. Since I am good friends with Milt Byron, fortunately I have seen enough legitimate game worn Bruins jerseys and Custom Crafted Specials over the years to be able to make an educated determination as to what is real and what isn't which is very helpful to me since I own close to 50 game worn Boston Bruins jerseys. Unfortunately a lot of collectors have not had that luxury. The Custom Crafted scandal was not limited only to Bruins jerseys either since they also did lettering for the Devils, Whalers, and I think the Blues too.

[gingi79]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

For those of you who don't know, this was one of the biggest issues the hockey game worn community encountered. It pales compared the the "CC Special" debacle but it was close.

Brad Foote now owns his own company called IceHouse. He has had some of the greatest and most plentiful array of jerseys ever assembled Most people know who Barry Meisel is and Milt Byron is known as the Godfather of Hockey game worns. He has literally brought tens of thousands of shirts through the hobby and even novice collectors looking through his old price lists will ooh and ahh over the multitude of shirts and how cheap they once were (He sold a Racers Wayne Gretzky for $7500. Add at least another zero on that price now)

The thread in question shows a few things. The first is integrity and the fact that rather than simply pull an item, the parties in question explained why and all details pertaining to them. Very transparent and I can think of a few collectors on this board who rather value that quality.

The second is that, as Milt has always said, Do Your Homework. After reading the Lebron Mears A5 thread, it is obvious to me that every item must be independently researched and maticulously questioned before purchased. This board is a true asset in that we have a great knowledge base amongst the members. If you aren't satisfied that the item is 1000% authentic, walk away. That would be my advice anyway.

Third, like most hobbies, if there is money to be made, there is somebody who can brilliantly fake anything. A Japanese businessman spend $4 mililon dollars on a Van Gogh painting that was perfectly faked. (Carbon dating was the only way to disprove it. The canvas was from the correct time, a few of the paints were not) There are fake Honus Wagner T206 baseball cards that sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am not even going to discuss eBay and the millions of fakes online right now.

Lastly, the Custom Crafted Special that Milt refers to was even more amazing that what eBay Guy did. Imagine Steiner taking 0063 game issued Majestic jerseys, making them up for every big name player on the Yankees and adding wear then selling then as game worn. Now imagine doing it in the 1980s and early 90's before the average fan had access to Getty, Google, the internet, etc. How would you know they weren't real? Right! You wouldn't. Every marker pointed towards authenticity. CC was the official customizer of all of the Boston Bruins game used jerseys which means they made every real game used shirt. Then they added fake wear to countless Cam Neely, Ray Bourque, Adam Oats, etc shirts and sold them as game worn.

These weren't $150 shirts, they were thousands of dollars each. Many people in the hockey game worn hobby (including me) will never own a late 80's/ early 90's Cam Neely or Ray Bourque jersey because unless they are undoubtable photomatched, there is no way to know it's not a CC Special.

[hblakewolf]

Re: Interesting thread from another forum

While searching for information on Gretzky gamers, I located this old thread that's extremely insightful and at the same time, disturbing.

What's really interesting is that a dozen bogus Gretzky jerseys are fabricated, the source of these fakes has been identified, yet not a single person including the folks at Lelands, Barry Meisel or Milt Byron names the culprit?

Does anyone have an update to this and likewise, know who the source is?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net