is there a for sale thread anymore???????

[skyking26]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

Hey, thought I'd chime in here. GUU has connected me to some great guys in the hobby, and reconnected me to guys I dealt with 15 years ago. I have personally met and asked advice from guys like Jim and Mike S. and bought a great bat from Jim C. a few years ago. While I can honestly say the sale section does not always work for me - I try it for FREE, and if I don't attract a buyer, oh well. Gotta defend Chris, Jim, Todd, etc. here.

Keep up the good work, enjoy the site.

R. Koppel

[bat_master]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

Todd/Jim:

I really don't have anything to say in response. There isn't anything I can say that will add to this thread. I also feel pretty strongly that there isn't anything I can say here that I won't have thrown back in my face so I won't even bother.

Todd, you are absolutely correct that the majority of my posts have been to sell items. However, there have been times where I've emailed members privately to share information as I'm sure you have done the same.

Have I benefitted from listing items for sale here: YES
Have others:YES
Do I enjoy being a member here? YES
Will I continue to be a member here? PROBABLY
Am I thankful for having this site? NOT ENOUGH
Would I like to see updated content in areas? YES
Did I post a short list of things I would like to see happen? YES
Did my comments come across as ungrateful? YES
Am I sorry I said what I posted, and do I take it back? NO.

I'm as passionate about the hobby as anyone else here. That's why we are all here. I don't ever want to be a person that regrets what they say or the way they do things.

I meant it as constructive criticism plain and simple and if it was/is perceived as "throwing stones" then so be it.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

If I'm a member of this site and read 5 threads a day about photomatching, another 3 threads about a Robinson Cano glove, and 4 more about Lou Lampson & American Memorabilia I personally don't benefit from any of that as a paying customer.

I personally enjoy ALL of the threads that I do not benefit from. It's nice to read about other collecting adventures and curiosity. I think more people should post and not be intimidated by more knowledgable collectors. I could give a rat's backside about football helmets, but I think the posts from Aeanas(spelling?) are the most detailed and informative on this whole site. I've learned more about Blue Jays jerseys from Kingjammy than I need to know. I don't care about baseball bats. As far as I'm concerned they're all from the "deadwood" era. However, I do appreciate the passion from bat collectors. If this forum only contained topics that related to what I collect...then that would be real boring. Right?
As for the "For Sale" section, what did you people do 3 years ago? No problem, just go to the myhalloffame "for sale" section. You guys act like eBay shut down or something.
I totally agree with Yankwood- this forum is a hobby in itself!

[Eric]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

Guys-

I have to say, give Chris the chance to show everyone what he'd like to do with the auction and the for sale section.

Check the man's track record. The goal with everything he has done is to make information sharing better and take the risk out of doing business in the hobby.

I look forward to seeing what he has in mind. As many of you can tell I enjoy reading everything on this forum. I am grateful for everyone who pitches in with their knowledge and enthusiasm to make this a better hobby.
Eric

[whatupyos]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

The only thing I want to say is respect everyones opinion. I'm sick of the "Throwing Stones" comment that has been over-used here lately. If I remember correctly, this is America, we have freedom of speech. The views by some might not be the views of all, but we should respect those opinions as well as the fact that someone might be trying something new to help the site with regards to pulling the for sale section. Personally, I'm a little frustrated that the for sale section is gone. But...let me say that again BUT I also RESPECT that one of the administrators has the right to pull it if he so chooses. None of us are perfect, but we all need to chill out and not get so ridiculous with chastizing others for venting their frustration.

Aaron

[JimCaravello]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

Hi Aaron - I have no problem with constructive criticism or suggestions that will enhance the site and I know that Chris Cavalier would welcome such things. This is a free flowing Forum and everyone should be allowed their opinions and comments.

What I have a problem with is that Chris announced the removal of the For Sale section and explained why - he also indicated that he was creating a new For Sale model that will be rolled out after the auction. Instead of waiting to see what that might look like and knowing that this is a temporary loss for the site, people used this as a launching point to criticize the site ( the site has been going downhill for months - I don't know why I come here anymore, etc. - ).

Comments like this are not positive or constructive. In addition, comments like this are made from the same people who have used the site and all of it's resources, including personnel involved with the site to make money and basically use it as an extension of their own business. When I say make money - I don't mean they buy an item for $10 and then sell it for $10 so they can buy another item for their collection - I mean they are using this site and its resources to buy an item for $10 and then selling it for $100 - and they are truly making a profit off of the captive audience this site has. They are allowed to basically do this for free.

Meantime, Chris is pouring 80 hours a week into GUU and thousands and thousands of dollars of his money into this site, without asking anything in return.

No - the negative comments that we have seen in this thread are because the free ride people have had has come to a temporary halt and they feel "Entitled" to have the For Sale section, even though they haven't paid a dime into this site or have any ownership of the site.

I choose to take a different approach - I will embrace the change and I look forward to seeing what Chris has in store in the coming months. Based on his track record, I am sure it will be cutting edge and fabulous.

Jim

[karamaxjoe]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

Chris, Jim and Eric,

First I'd like to applaud all your efforts in creating a resource for game used collectors. Ten years ago we had to write letters and search for information at shows which was hit or miss at best. I surf through this site nearly every day for information and would hate to see it go away.

I do think you always have room for improvement. Some of the content needs to be updated or removed. I've always enjoyed the informative articles MEARS provides and I think some of your experts could easily do the same more frequently.

In my business and in many others we provide evaluation forms to rate our service and seek better ways to do our jobs. I think some of your senior members would welcome the opportunity to provide valuable feedback on improving the site.

Mike

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

First of all, I want to say that I personally appreciate the posts on this thread as I think they have helped me further understand the variety of thoughts of our members. When you have thousands of registered members, and many more thousands who view the site though not officially registered, you will undoubtedly have different opinions on various topics. Obviously, we think it is good to allow those opinions to be heard and I truly respect and appreciate the opinions that have been shared.

I just wanted to add one last thing to make sure everyone truly understands what we are trying to do and the motivations behind it as I am not 100% sure that has been made clear. I read a question at one point of this thread asking whether we are about bringing together collectors or about making money. I just wanted to reply to that question so everyone can understand our intentions.

It has been correctly stated in this thread that if GUU does not generate revenues it will not continue to exist and grow as we have seen recently. While this is absolutely true, I think it is important to understand that any of GUU's efforts to generate revenue will be based on an attempt to provide something of value to the collecting community. Said another way, we believe the way GUU will make money IS by meeting the needs of its members. These objectives are not mutually exclusive. They are in fact 100% related to one another.

With that said, I wanted to further clarify the direction we are heading so it is clear to everyone. If you look at the outer circle of the GUU logo on the homepage you will see the words "Information, Community and Memorabilia". Up until this year, we have generally focused on the 'Information' and 'Community' sides of that equation. At this point in time, we believe we can significantly help collectors by creating a better way to buy and sell merchandise…the ‘Memorabilia’ side of the GUU equation. While that isn’t part of the forum’s stated objective to “bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other”, we feel there is a significant opportunity to add value to collectors by creating a better system than currently exists today in this area. It is also something we believe is an important extension of how the other areas (Information and Community) can bring real and meaningful value to collectors.

With that said, since the beginning of this year we been investing a great deal of time and money to create the transaction models we will be rolling out on this site. Part of what we have been working to create will be seen when we roll out the consignment auction at the end of the month. The other part of what we have been working on will be seen in the enhanced “For Sale” area that has been previously mentioned on this thread. Please know that we did not temporarily close the previous “For Sale” area as an attempt to take anything away from users of the site. In fact, our intentions are quite to the contrary. We hope everyone will see the value of what we have been working to create when these platforms are launched. It is system we believe will help protect collectors from questionable and suspect merchandise in ways never done before.

Lastly, I wanted to also explain how creating a system for helping protect collectors when they buy and sell memorabilia relates to the other two objectives of the site (Information and Community). We feel the ‘Memorabilia’ side of the GUU equation is where GUU can generate its revenue ASSUMING it is addressing the needs of its members. Again, we have decided to focus on this area rather than advertising or subscription revenue to sustain the site for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. Basically, our goal is to provide the ‘Information’ and ‘Community’ sides of the equation without charge and sustain the site via the memorabilia transaction side.

So what does this all boil down to? We will be launching a new transaction system that we believe will help better meet the needs of the collecting community than what exists today. If we have done that than GUU should be able to generate revenue. This revenue will be used to support the other areas of the site which we do not plan to charge members to use. In the end, as always, we believe it is the best way to meet the needs of our members while allowing GUU to continue to exist and grow. I hope that everyone can understand this and support us as we continue in our efforts to help collectors.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

[bat_master]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

First of all, I want to say that I personally appreciate the posts on this thread as I think they have helped me further understand the variety of thoughts of our members. When you have thousands of registered members, and many more thousands who view the site though not officially registered, you will undoubtedly have different opinions on various topics. Obviously, we think it is good to allow those opinions to be heard and I truly respect and appreciate the opinions that have been shared.

I just wanted to add one last thing to make sure everyone truly understands what we are trying to do and the motivations behind it as I am not 100% sure that has been made clear. I read a question at one point of this thread asking whether we are about bringing together collectors or about making money. I just wanted to reply to that question so everyone can understand our intentions.

It has been correctly stated in this thread that if GUU does not generate revenues it will not continue to exist and grow as we have seen recently. While this is absolutely true, I think it is important to understand that any of GUU's efforts to generate revenue will be based on an attempt to provide something of value to the collecting community. Said another way, we believe the way GUU will make money IS by meeting the needs of its members. These objectives are not mutually exclusive. They are in fact 100% related to one another.

With that said, I wanted to further clarify the direction we are heading so it is clear to everyone. If you look at the outer circle of the GUU logo on the homepage you will see the words "Information, Community and Memorabilia". Up until this year, we have generally focused on the 'Information' and 'Community' sides of that equation. At this point in time, we believe we can significantly help collectors by creating a better way to buy and sell merchandise…the ‘Memorabilia’ side of the GUU equation. While that isn’t part of the forum’s stated objective to “bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other”, we feel there is a significant opportunity to add value to collectors by creating a better system than currently exists today in this area. It is also something we believe is an important extension of how the other areas (Information and Community) can bring real and meaningful value to collectors.

With that said, since the beginning of this year we been investing a great deal of time and money to create the transaction models we will be rolling out on this site. Part of what we have been working to create will be seen when we roll out the consignment auction at the end of the month. The other part of what we have been working on will be seen in the enhanced “For Sale” area that has been previously mentioned on this thread. Please know that we did not temporarily close the previous “For Sale” area as an attempt to take anything away from users of the site. In fact, our intentions are quite to the contrary. We hope everyone will see the value of what we have been working to create when these platforms are launched. It is system we believe will help protect collectors from questionable and suspect merchandise in ways never done before.

Lastly, I wanted to also explain how creating a system for helping protect collectors when they buy and sell memorabilia relates to the other two objectives of the site (Information and Community). We feel the ‘Memorabilia’ side of the GUU equation is where GUU can generate its revenue ASSUMING it is addressing the needs of its members. Again, we have decided to focus on this area rather than advertising or subscription revenue to sustain the site for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. Basically, our goal is to provide the ‘Information’ and ‘Community’ sides of the equation without charge and sustain the site via the memorabilia transaction side.

So what does this all boil down to? We will be launching a new transaction system that we believe will help better meet the needs of the collecting community than what exists today. If we have done that than GUU should be able to generate revenue. This revenue will be used to support the other areas of the site which we do not plan to charge members to use. In the end, as always, we believe it is the best way to meet the needs of our members while allowing GUU to continue to exist and grow. I hope that everyone can understand this and support us as we continue in our efforts to help collectors.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

Absolutely! Very well said. I think this post is really all many of those concerned were looking for. Just a bit more detailed explanation.

Truthfully, in the way this has it laid out I'm absolutely excited to see the forthcoming format.

I think it will be a great addition and hopefully in the near future additional segments of GUU that contain some of the slightly outdated material will be updated.

After all, it was those portions of GUU that got me here as a member in the first place.

[MSpecht]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

Just a few thoughts to add to this thread, without (hopefully) being too redundant.

First, if you have read some of my posts in the Experts' Corner you know that I am one of the older participants on the site and have been seriously around the hobby since 1968. (I really wish that I was a 24-year-old hobbyist, but things are what they are.) Without going into a detailed description, the early days were like the Wild, Wild West --- not because people were dishonest and rip-off artists, but because the knowledge base in all areas, and particularly game-used equipment, just was not there. (Well, I guess there were some minor league, amateur rip-off artists -- I remember the laughable counterfeit sepia-colored Ted Williams #68 card when it came out.)

The basic necessity for a collector of anything -- coin, stamps, sports memorabilia, what-have-you, is knowledge. You have to have a way to make sure you don't get taken, either by being ill-informed or mis-informed. There have always been people willing to "do the research" and share the information -- guys like Frank Nagy and his T206 info, Roger Christensen with his autograph guides and address lists, Mike Montbraind with his early bat research, Dick Dobbins and early jersey analysis methods, and on and on.

These (and many others') pioneering efforts became even more valuable as "The Hobby" gained interest and prices began to rise and the lure of money brought in some seriously ethically-challenged people. But , there was a problem. If you didn't actually know one of these people with a strong knowledge base in a specific area, there was no realistic way to tap into it (remember, these were the days when most auctions were done with an ad in The Trader Speaks and accepted only mail bids postmarked no later than the closing date.)

Anyway, I am starting to tell you what you already know, so fast forward now through the innovations like card grading, telephone and on-line auctions, authenticating companies on-site at convention signings (back then the thought was "Why should i pay some guy $10 to give me a certificate that says Stan Musial really signed this ball when I saw him sign it with my own eyes?") and finally Game Used Forum, over 30 years removed from the situation I described above, was started and provided an environment where people could interact with others they had never met, and likely had never heard of, and benefit from their knowledge. That philosophical concept eventually joined GUF and Game Used Universe, and here we stand.

I was steered to the site by a long-time friend and found it to be entertaining and fun. For awhile, I read and enjoyed. Occasionally I would see a question about game used bats and respond and make available some H & B records or whatever. At that time, having not been really active in the hobby for about 8 years, I didn't know many of the "new" players -- I had never met (or even heard of) Chris Cavalier, Jim Caravello, Rob Steinmetz, or most of the people who posted on the site. Eventually, however, I was introduced to them and found that their philosophy, integrity, sense of ethics, etc were very much in line with my own. At a point in time, I committed to participation in the site, and have done so for almost 2 years.

What am I trying to say here? Basically that I can attest to the fact that the people commiting many hours to the advancement of the Game Used Universe site have never wavered in their objective as Chris stated in his last post -- providing a venue where collectors can get complete, accurate, and detailed information to allow them to make informed decisions on the memorabilia they are considering adding to their collections. It's that simple.

What have I personally committed to the site? Basically, I have put in about 30 hours a week for the past year-and-a-half or so -- responding to posts , responding to an average of 15 or 20 emails a week, assisting with planning and development, promotion, and other things. What's my "take" for this? Well, I remember a post Dave Grob made on MEARS when they revamped their site a bit and he indicated that 'it wasn't about the money' as Dave B. and Troy probably averaged abour $12.00 an hour for their work. All I can say is, I wish I could land one of those high-paying jobs like the MEARS boys have. Heck, like Jim C., I don't even bid on Ebay even if there is a chance to make a few dollars -- my personal stance is that if a member asks me a question about a bat, either on the forum or privately via e-mail, I won't bid on that item, as I would view that competition as a violation of trust of the person who asked the question.

But what I have gained is a sense of having helped people more than a few times from being taken, which is the same feeling alot of other forum members get who do the same, and again, was the primary reason the site was started in the first place. I have met a bunch of great people on the site, and more than a few who have broadened my knowledge base in specific areas. I would never hesitate to contact Tommy Duino on Angels stuff (even though he still won't trade me back the signed Nolan Ryan lithograph he got from me 20 years ago for a Morris Nettles hat) or Howard Wolf on Phillies. Eric has helped me with Chargers gear, Jeff has educated me on Cardinals bats and you can't beat Bill, Brett and all on Ripken Jr items. If I have a question on a Kingman bat, or what uniform number he wore his first year in rookie ball, I know who to go to. That is, in my opinion, the value of the GUU site.

So what is in the future? I've seen the future and it is more of the same -- true to the principles and objectives that have brought GUU to this point, and have caused so many of you to spend alot of your hobby time in becoming educated and, in turn, educating others.

The impact is felt throughout the hobby. Recently several major auction houses, authentication services, and others have made a big show of puting forth their own Manifestos of Conduct or similar declarations. I am not saying that many of these people have "new-found religion," or have not conducted themselves with integrity in the past, but I believe that the discussions, disclosures, and comments on this site provided the motivation to "fine-tune' some of the previous practices within the hobby and caused companies become more transparent in their operations.

Back to the future. The platforms that have been developed for the transactional elements of this site are outstanding, and will provide the collector with the highest degree of assurance possible as to the legitimacy of an item. That has always been, and remains, the objective of GUU. To suffer a little inconvenience to make this happen , such as the closing of the 'For Sale' Forum for awhile, will seem a small price to pay in the future.

Thanks to everyone who makes this site fun and enjoyable, informative and educational. I apologize if I got a little off-subject. But, to use an old Seinfeld line, soon you will be able to look at all Sale Items and Auction Items on this site and say, "They're real --- and they're spectacular."

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[skyking26]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

Mike could not have put it better! He personally has assisted with information for me thru the years. I found this site thru a tip, and it is a great knowledge base. I do it all for free. Where else can you do that? I spoke with a fellow collector friend the other night that related that oftentimes the competition and fraud has soured him on what was once an enjoyable get-away from the streeses of regualr life. I feel he just was hanging with the wrong folks. There are plenty here that are an aid and a friend. I can think on no-where else where one can go to ask opinions and touch base with people with like interests. Having met Mike S., Jim C. at the National, they are 100% genuine which is a breathe of fresh air. Any of those that feel that this site is not benefitting you - go where you can be assisted. No one has a gun to your head...

[sportscentury]

Re: is there a for sale thread anymore???????

I've been hoping that this thread would die, for a number of reasons, but partly because, after seeing how this thread developed, I found myself wishing that I had not posted or been a part of it in any way. I am completely fine with the for-sale forum being temporarily closed, permanently closed, or whatever is ultimately decided. I am sure that there are many issues that arise in the course of running this site that I am not aware of, or at least do not entirely understand. Thanks to everyone for their hard work and for continuing to help inform collectors and expose fraudulent practices.

Reid