Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

[33bird]

Both Balco Babies. The IFAA (?) just erased all of Marion Jones's Olympic medals. Boom! They're gone. Now, if Bonds is finally PROVEN guilty (everybody knows he is, just like everybody knew Marion was guilty before she finally confessed) why doesn't MLB do the same thing? It's as simple as removing his name from every sacred record that he cheated to get. Forget the asterisk, just remove his name from the record books. I know some nut is gonna say now: "Well, we got to do that to Gaylord Perry too then, because he used slippery elm pills to muck up the ball." I don't have a problem with that. It wasn't like he was breaking the laws of our country like Bonds and others were. I think that's more like stealing signs or doing what the Patriots were doing. Doing what you can to win, but not making yourself BIGGER, FASTER, AND STRONGER than the majority of players not cheating, and breaking the laws of our country at the same time. I don't think bonds juiced to win, but he did the needle to get the publicity Sosa and Mac were getting, to make more money and break the records of guys like Aaron, Ruth, and Maris who played the game right and without substances that made you look and play like King Kong. Just my 2 cents.
Greg

[kellsox]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

I dislike Bonds like the next guy but you can't eliminate stats that were accumulated throughout his career. M Jones participated in an individual sport and it is much easier to strike her times from record books. With Bonds playing a team sport, if you took away his HR's, RBIs etc...do you take away team victories, runs scored by his teammates, pitcher's ERA's from opposing teams... among other stats? I think it is understood by fans that his accomplishments(along with other players from his era) were chemically aided.
k

[flaco1801]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

individual sport??? since when was bonds a team player, the most selfish player that ever played the game.

[BoneRubbedBat]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

I'm glad to see the other sports doing the right thing by negating the offenders tainted accomplishments. I think Bud will follow suit to save face for MLB.

[bigtruck260]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

I dislike Bonds like the next guy but you can't eliminate stats that were accumulated throughout his career. M Jones participated in an individual sport and it is much easier to strike her times from record books. With Bonds playing a team sport, if you took away his HR's, RBIs etc...do you take away team victories, runs scored by his teammates, pitcher's ERA's from opposing teams... among other stats? I think it is understood by fans that his accomplishments(along with other players from his era) were chemically aided.
k

The unfortunate part about this fiasco is that the above statement has to be true. DO you take away runs scored from the players who were on base when Barry drove them in? DO you lower the ERA of guys who he hammered? What Marion Jones did is honorable, and it took courage...obviously she is remorseful. Some folks should follow her lead.

Dave

[33bird]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

Nope. You don't have to go that far. You can't go that far. You just wipe out his individual records in the record books. That's all he cares about anyway. That's why he juiced.
Greg

[murderers_row]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

...M Jones participated in an individual sport and it is much easier to strike her times from record books.

Wrong.

The members of all of Jones's winning relay teams have lost their medals, too.

[Bondsgloves]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

MLB is at fault for turning a blind eye, they didn't test for this stuff. MLB knew this was going on and turned the other way, because it was making them millions. The managers knew, the trainers, the owners, the GM's the scouts, they all knew this was going on.
Were steroids against baseball rules? Did MLB test for steroids? Yes they were illegal, but are we going to wipe the records clear for all the players that took steroids, greenies, cocaine and other illegal drugs.
Major league baseball will not wipe out any of Bonds accomplishments. They didn't erase jose canseco's 40/40 or MVO
Take away Sosa's MVP
Palmeiro's accomplishments
Do you think Rickey Henderson was clean? he played in his 40's and he was associated with the A's of the late 80's early 90"s.
Etc.

So if it comes out Clemens was on the juice (of course he was), are we going to wipe out his records?

The funny thing is that everyone is hoping AROD breaks the record, what a joke. AROD is probably on some sort of enhancement as well (then what).

Sorry but this is sports of this ERA, sports will never be clean again. Track & field is the most heavily tested yet 99% of them test clean yet they are on some undectable steroid Marion Jones tested clean during the olympics no one would ever of known if someone didn't snitch. Lance Armstrong, Holyfield, aall sports have been chemically enhanced.

[aeneas01]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

gonna rid the baseball record books of steroid users, starting with bonds? and then what? finish up with baseball and then head on over to the nfl record books? perhaps start by stripping the '74-'79 steelers of their lombardi trophies?

btw, nice post bondsgloves....

[mwbosoxfan]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

If you touch one record in the record books, be prepared to open the flood gates. Just the thought of more players being exposed in the near future makes me sick to my stomach. Unfortunately, there will be a period of time that will forever be known as the steroid era. You can't change what has already been done. Baseball needs to adopt stricter policies and actively explore possibilities of new testing technologies for HGH, and then move on past this era.

Jason Giambi admitted to the grand jury that he used steroids. He also acknowledged in a pathetic apology to the public that he used them (I do hold Giambi in much higher regard than Bonds, mainly because of his apology, no matter how pathetic it was). He also hit 2 homeruns in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS. He is a cheater the same as Bonds. I, as much as anybody, would love to have those 2 runs removed. Aaron "f*****g" Boone should have never had his chance in the 11th. But, you just can't do it, no matter what you learn after the fact.

[yanks12025]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

He also hit 2 homeruns in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS. He is a cheater the same as Bonds. I, as much as anybody, would love to have those 2 runs removed. Aaron "f*****g" Boone should have never had his chance in the 11th. But, you just can't do it, no matter what you learn after the fact.[/quote]


Ok lets go with this, i'm not saying he ever took steroids but what would you do if it came out that Big papi took steroids. Then we can take your 2004 ring away because big papi was a big part in that.

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

MLB is at fault for turning a blind eye, they didn't test for this stuff. MLB knew this was going on and turned the other way, because it was making them millions. The managers knew, the trainers, the owners, the GM's the scouts, they all knew this was going on.
Were steroids against baseball rules? Did MLB test for steroids? Yes they were illegal, but are we going to wipe the records clear for all the players that took steroids, greenies, cocaine and other illegal drugs.
Major league baseball will not wipe out any of Bonds accomplishments. They didn't erase jose canseco's 40/40 or MVO
Take away Sosa's MVP
Palmeiro's accomplishments
Do you think Rickey Henderson was clean? he played in his 40's and he was associated with the A's of the late 80's early 90"s.
Etc.

So if it comes out Clemens was on the juice (of course he was), are we going to wipe out his records?

The funny thing is that everyone is hoping AROD breaks the record, what a joke. AROD is probably on some sort of enhancement as well (then what).

Sorry but this is sports of this ERA, sports will never be clean again. Track & field is the most heavily tested yet 99% of them test clean yet they are on some undectable steroid Marion Jones tested clean during the olympics no one would ever of known if someone didn't snitch. Lance Armstrong, Holyfield, aall sports have been chemically enhanced.

I agree with most of what you say EXCEPT the part, "this is sports of this ERA". A small percentage of MLB players cheated and it isn't fair to include all of the players into this category because it just isn't so. Let's not become so apathetic in our thinking that because a few took illegal drugs - everyone must have so it's OK to condone the behavior.

MLB has a big problem and they had better address it or they will damage the game forever. The way I see it, if adequate evidence is submitted against Bonds, and other players that they used the juice, and MLB knew and did nothing about it, whoever used it and whoever covered it up, including the commissioner, I say let the chips fall where they may.

MLB is a company just like every company in this Country and just like everyone else, they are subject to the same laws. Would IBM allow some employees to use illegal drugs because these "special" employees are producing better than others? I think not.

One final thought on MLB, I am tired of their public service annoucements on steroid use and how players should be positive role models. To me, it's all smoking mirrors unless they set an example for all to see.

Jim

[grandpahoo]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

The focus on steroids and HGH in MLB cracks me up. Maybe I'm just cynical, but I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of NFL players who use performance enhancing drugs is astronomical.

[David]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

I'm not speculating at cause of death, but if it turns out that Joe Kennedy's death was steroids related, players might pause to think.

A lot of the steroids and related drugs are not made by pharmacists, doctors or biochemists, but the equivalent of meth lab operators. A federal bust of a home showed the homemade drugs being stored unprotected in the bathtub and kitchen sink. And this is what athletes are putting into their body.

[mwbosoxfan]

Re: Marion Jones = Barry Bonds??

Ok lets go with this, i'm not saying he ever took steroids but what would you do if it came out that Big papi took steroids. Then we can take your 2004 ring away because big papi was a big part in that.

I think you missed my point. I'm saying that there is nothing that can be done. While I think it stinks and I think that cheaters tarnish the game, there isn't anything you can do after the fact. My premise is based on the fact the some want to remove Bonds from the record books. My point is that you can't selectively go in and remove some records and not others. Giambi was an admitted user long before Bonds, and you can't go in and take Giambi's 2 HR's off the board and award the Red Sox the 2003 ALCS Championship. Although, they probably deserve it based on the effect of the "cheaters" premise.

And yes, if it did come out that Manny or Papi was using during the 2004 season, I do think it would diminish to a great degree their World Series Championship.