PCCE Panel Discussion

[G1X]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

BTPH,

Sounds like you need a new spam filter and security package .

Seriously, I can understand people's concerns and reservations. I guess that I am a little old-fashioned and just feel that folks should be accountable for what they say, especially in matters of accusation, innuendo, etc.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[G1X]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

Rudy,

As a matter of fact, I have discussed this issue with Chris Cavalier on several occasions and wrote to him about it once again earlier today. Instead of just complaining about things I would like to see changed, I actually take the initiative to try do something about it.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[otismalibu]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

Joel likes everyone's identity to be out in the open.

Except for bidders/buyers on some of his eBay auctions.

That info needs to be kept secret.

[trsent]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

Joel likes everyone's identity to be out in the open.

Except for bidders/buyers on some of his eBay auctions.

That info needs to be kept secret.

Yes sir, and eBay agrees with me.

They have made all listings private now too. Only the buyer is identified with their new system. They understood my thoughts that I emailed to them how no one has any business who bids in my auctions so they can email them for any various reasons.

Then again, you can attack me or you can join a discussion.

It always appears when people have no solution to a problem they bring up my eBay listings being private (not a negative feedback in over 18 months and 4500 feedbacks during that time) or a comment I made about a girl or something and bring it back up.

Grow up if you want to have a mature discussion. A weak argument is to bash the person making the argument instead of discussing the facts.

The fact is simple - I follow eBay rules and if a buyer has a question, my email address is posted in each and every listing I post. Why is it your business who bids in my auctions that you so much care about? All my listings are private per eBay's policies.

Now, once again, I have to make it clear. Don't bash me when I am making points I feel are valid. Why turn a discussion about something into a pick on Joel discussion?

Is it because you don't like to read the truth?

[kingjammy24]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

i'd like to put some misconceptions to rest once and for all. the first is this imaginary notion of anonymity on the internet. it doesn't exist. i understand that many non-IT folks don't know how this wild and wooly thing works but suffice it to say there is always a trail, beginning with an IP address. i could create a "fake" email address via yahoo or some such, register here, use a fake name, post some insanity and chris cavalier would have no problem whatsoever tracing the IP back to my service provider who'd then easily be able to determine my identity. the service provider would have my full name, address, and credit card number and would be forced to hand it all over if required by law. everything necessary to serve legal papers or even an arrest if necessary. re: "colonel rast": as i recall, GUU traced the IP and found it came from AMI.

"I guess that I am a little old-fashioned and just feel that folks should be accountable for what they say, especially in matters of accusation, innuendo, etc. "

they are accountable mark. every person on this entire forum has been required to register with a full name, which is then displayed in via a public directory, as well as a valid email address which is then verified. to really hammer it home, people aren't even able to edit their comments once posted! once they say it, it's set in stone. how is that not accountable? i've been using the same ID and email address ever since i joined the forum.

how is it that dave bushing thinks i'm some ghost in the night when every one of his peers at mears from troy to grob to miedema has found the magical ability to email me? bushing's recent rants about faceless, nameless people hiding behind computers occurred literally as i was having direct discussions with troy and dave grob. so much for "hiding". bushing's accusations are ridiculous. he's been uttering them for years despite being repeatedly told by eric and chris that every single person's full name and valid email are displayed in public here. they're simply not automatically posted in each and every single post, which, for the purposes of accountability, is entirely irrelevant anyway. your suggestion of posting the info on every single post, in addition to the public directory, does nothing to increase accountability and would only result in more spam/viruses/scams sent to members. my email address is plastered at least 30 times all over this forum. posting it 2000 times doesn't make me any more accountable.

if people are going to discuss accountability on here, i just wish they'd do it with a sense of the facts.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

Is it because you don't like to read the truth?

greg, he's got you there!


"Rudy, at least I am real."

i may be nothing more than a little wooden puppet carved by an old man but after recently meeting a gentlemanly cricket, i feel my dreams of one day being real are right around the corner.

rudy.

[otismalibu]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

Grow up if you want to have a mature discussion. A weak argument is to bash the person making the argument instead of discussing the facts.

Sorta like focusing on the poster's signature info, rather than the subject matter they were discussing, eh?

To be honest, that was just a dangling carrot post. I just had to see if Charlie Brown would try to split the uprights.

But really, that post was from almost 2 hours ago. We need to quit living in the past.

What is the going rate for a rodeo clown these days?

And for the board member that emailed me privately...

I checked my records and you haven't won any of my past auctions. Sorry, I only answer email from former customers. Hope you understand.

[ndevlin]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

You all are mean to each other. Lets move to a new thread.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

You all are mean to each other. Lets move to a new thread.

I agree that we all should move on to a new thread unless there is something constructive to be added here.

Along those lines, I thought I would clear up a previous post that suggested Rudy wasn't a real person. I have personally met Rudy when I was out of town on business. We had lunch together and a very pleasant conversation about the hobby as well as other things. Though Rudy and I don't always agree on everything, I will say that he is a very real and intelligent person. He has also followed all the registration requirements to post on the site.

I really feel kind of foolish even having to say that Rudy is a real person. However, given the comment that a number of people in the industry mistakenly think he is some created "persona", I thought it would help to correct that misconception.

With that said, again, let's keep things constructive or this thread will need to be locked.

Sincerely,
Chris

[G1X]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

Most publications such as your local newspaper will not publish an opinion piece (such as a "Letter to the Editor") without identifying the writer. They require that you identify yourself before they will publish your opinion piece. And no matter how many times you have an opinion published or are on file with the publication, your contact information is printed each and every time you are published.

It's all about accountability and credibility - it's there for everyone to easily and clearly see - right underneath the words you have written. There is no hiding as it's all there in the open attached to your words. There is no searching old newspapers, archives, or a publication's data base to figure out who the writer is. It is a very simple and effective method that has been around for a long time and seems to work real well.

There are other websites that require signing your full name and contact information each time you post. Anyone with a basic journalism background understands this concept and the reason for it.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[aeneas01]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

There are other websites that require signing your full name and contact information each time you post. Anyone with a basic journalism background understands this concept and the reason for it.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

honestly mark, this is pure nonsense.

take a stroll over to the washington post's discussion board and tell me how many posts include the author's full name and contact information. and please don't try to tell me that chokochuckles, csdiego, coffeewx, fee336 or the many other names you will find there are, in fact, full names.

take a stroll over to the new york times' discussion board and tell me how many posts include the author's full name and contact information. and please don't try to tell me that crowny2, jorian319, fleet_footjones, bob_z, jfreed or the many other names you will find there are, in fact, full names.

of course, i suppose, it could be argued that the post and the times know little concerning "basic journalism" - but that's another topic. but what can't be argued is that most (all?) public discussion boards do not require registered members to post their full names and contact information after every post. and for very good reason.

take a stroll over to the obama'08 discussion board (blog section) and tell me how many posts include the author's full name and contact information. and please don't try to tell me that scott from australia, musicians4obama, chicago biker chick, jessica in iowa, bo knows politics, not a sheep or the many other names you will find there are, in fact, full names.

take a stroll over to the mccain 2008 discussion board (blog section) and tell me how many posts include the author's full name and contact information. and please don't try to tell me that chemicalkinetics, armyeod, armymom08, comfortablynumb, diverdown, read, lee310, gotjohn or the many other names you will find there are, in fact, full names.

as i mentioned before mark, the notion that discussion board posters are faceless cowards protected by anonymity is absurd. and what's even more absurd are those that attempt to play this card when criticized in the public domain. frankly, i believe that the very posts that have caused so much dismay among the likes of bushing, nerat and others will make them better at what they do - and that's good for all collectors, good for the hobby, no?

[RKGIBSON]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

I suggest that we all meet at the Emerald City to meet the Great and Powerful Rudy. We can have Toto pull the curtain back and get a look at the Great Rudy. They put in your request for a Brain.

Roger

[lund6771]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

I'll put in a request for some courage...since most of us on this site are the cowardly lion, hiding behind our keyboards

[G1X]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

Hi Robert,

I would first like to say that I noticed where you have recently started listing contact information in each of your post. I am assuming and hoping that at this point, you have had no adverse repercussions.

Regarding your recent post, I have worked for several newspapers in two states, so I have a very thorough understanding of how it all works. As we all know, anyone with a computer can post on any newspaper's "discussion board" (fancy name for a "chat room"). However, one's opinions will never make it into the legitimate newspaper print unless they properly identify themselves. There is no "nonsense" about that - it's the way it works, and it works quite well.

As for "discussion boards" not requiring an ID, I will quote the words of another memorabilia website - words written by one of the most respected gentlemen in this hobby: "For posts on this forum, ALL USERS MUST list a complete identification (first and last name) along with a VALID E-MAIL address. This is to ensure that there is complete accountability for anything a person wishes to state and a means for someone to contact them. As this service is available to both subscribers and non-subscribers, the rules apply to all users."

In general, most people tend to be more careful and thoughtful in choosing their words when they have to sign their name to something they've written. They usually tend to become even more civil when they communicate in a live telephone conversation (sounds like you and Richard Rusek had such an experience earlier this week). And they become even more so when they meet to discuss an issue in person. It's human nature.

On another point you raised, I never insinuated that anyone was a coward - I never even called anyone out by name. I simply made a suggestion. My suggestion was merely an idea to try to raise us to a little bit higher standard, that's all. I would like to think that we are more than just another "chat room".

At this point, we have all beaten this dead horse beyond recognition. I communicated my idea and concerns directly with Chris Cavalier, and he said that there are no plans to change the posting rules. I will respect Chris' decision and say no more on this subject!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[Danny899]

Re: PCCE Panel Discussion

I'm wondering what some avid collector who stumbles upon this site for the first time will think when instead of finding useful, informative information about his passion, he finds bickering, immaturity and a serious clashing of egos. Is there a way for him to navigate around the madness and the never ending Lampson posts? Yes, we know you have no confidence in Lou lampson, let it go! Who cares what your real name is? Go back to posting useful information. There used to be real beneficial information posted here that was generated among mature, humble friends. It was a lot more fun then. Dan