Hof?????

[reed1216]

Re: Hof?????

I also neglected to include Alex Rodriguez as a shoe in. I'd have also included Pettitte as a bubble candidate, but for his inclusion in the Mitchell Report....

[Game Used Bats]

Re: Hof?????

Oh yeah, I also agree that Vizquel in a HOFer....

Jeff Kent is a definite as his offensive numbers are maybe the best ever at his posistion.

Anthony

[skyking26]

Re: Hof?????

I would not put Ortiz or Bernie in; numbers are just not there nor do I think they will be.

I am a numbers guy. While I like Dale Murphy, all the MVP's, etc, numbers do not lie, no HOF. I think Bernie and Ortiz are great players, but the numbers are not there and the Hall is reserved for GREATNESS, not NEAR-GREATNESS...

[reed1216]

Re: Hof?????

Here's a link that monitors and ranks the greatest players and pitchers in baseball history. I enjoy reviewing it every so often, to see how the current players match up as they build on their stats throughout the season...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/hof_monitor.shtml

[jetersbatboy]

Re: Hof?????

Bert I do agree with Vlad and Chipper are HOF. But I do belive bernie will make it maybe not as a 1st ballot guy, but he will get in. As for his numbers there are worse statistical player in the hall.

[jetersbatboy]

Re: Hof?????

Bernie has better stats then guy's like Larry Doby in AVG. RBI. and HR, Tony Gwynn RBI. and HR, he best Paul Molitor in HR and is very close in RBI and AVG. Kirby Puckett in HR. and RBI Ozzie Smith in all 3 (ozzie did get in because of his glove) and pretty similar number to Robin Yount just to name a few not to mention in less games then most of these guys.

[shoremen44]

Re: Hof?????

I just think that in the era Bernie played his numbers just arent strong enough... He was a great player, but when you think of his years playing, was he the best in the game?

[cjclong]

Re: Hof?????

As far as Ivan Rodriguez, first you have no proof, only speculation he used steroids. Second, he is 10 times the defensive catcher Posoda is. Th only argument about Rodriguez defense is whether he is the very best ever. I'm a Yankee fan and I like Posoda, but unless he has a number of years like last year, which at his age is unlikely, I don't see him as a HOF player.

[jake33]

Re: Hof?????

Fans are way to emotional when wanting to get their guy in the hall of fame. i was like that for Mattingly for years until i grew out of that and realized that 3-4 great years and 5 good years doesn't cut it.


Also, stating a current hofer's numbers agaist the guy youw ant to get it is not a plain level arguement. Different eras different circumstances. Just because some HOF'er is so-so, doesn't mean that x-player should get in.

[cjclong]

Re: Hof?????

The argument about the HOF frequently seems to be whether a very good player should be in the Hall as well as great players. And which category a player falls in is each individuals opinion. As an example I think Benie Williams is a very good player but not a great one. I think Williams is like Tommy Henrich who played with the DiMaggio Yankee teams. Henrich was a fine clutch player and was called "Old Reliable" and helped the Yankees to a number of World series wins. DiMaggio was a great player and is in the HOF and Henrich isn't.

[suave1477]

Re: Hof?????

As far as Ivan Rodriguez, first you have no proof, only speculation he used steroids. Second, he is 10 times the defensive catcher Posoda is. Th only argument about Rodriguez defense is whether he is the very best ever. I'm a Yankee fan and I like Posoda, but unless he has a number of years like last year, which at his age is unlikely, I don't see him as a HOF player.

CJCLONG I hear ya, you want to stick up for Rodriguez.

And you can say its speculation but he didnt get the nickname Pudge because he was fat lol lol

You can talk about his defensive skills but that was because of Performance enhancement drugs, they dont just apply to Offense but they help you defensively.

And again if you look at Posadas Offense numbers quite a few of them are better then Pudges and it was done naturally.

[cjclong]

Re: Hof?????

When Pudge first came up he was a star defensively with an incredible arm and that was Long before there were any allegations of steroids. His footwork has always been excellent and that has nothing to do with drugs. And if he had used anything that would have just evened out the 100 degree heat in Texas that would exhaust anyone, especially a catcher who caught nearly every day, that Posoda never had to deal with.

[suave1477]

Re: Hof?????

CJCLONG you said Rodriguez was good since before the alegations did you ever thing it might have been possible he was taking them since he started.

As far as heat I agree Posada didn't have to play in the same exact hat but not for nothing the heat index on the field in the middle of summer goes way up no matter where you play.

I went to an orioles game in mid summer 2 years ago and they said the temp was 90 degrees they said the on field heat index was 110 and trust me you can feel the heat coming off the field, it was so bad we left after the 7th inning.

So the same goes for Posada and Yankees stadium although he may not feel it a !00% of the time he still does feel it a lot.

[cjclong]

Re: Hof?????

Suave, "Pudge" got his name as a kid growing up in Puero Rico. Is it possible he was using steroids as a kid there or when he first started with the Rangers. I guess anything is possible but its unlikely to the point of being non existent. Even the "accuse everybody of steroids use guy " Canseco doesn't say that. As far as the heat, I've lived in Texas most of my life and I know what its like here. And I've been to enough games in the east to know there is NO comparison. I drove down to Houston to see the Yankees series and as I was driving home at 8pm the temperature was 95 degrees. It doesn't even get cool here even at night and its not August yet. In addition to their other problems one reason the Rangers can't players to come here is because they don't want to wear out during the scorching June, July and August weather. That's why the Astros built a stadium with a roof so it could be air conditioned. I have never heard of a player who said they wouldn't come to New York or Baltimore because of the weather. I truly don't know how Pudge was able to catch nearly every day here for years and not totally wear out. I was only half joking when I said if he took steroids it just even things out. I truly believe if he had played for the Yankees his batting average would have been 20 points higher.

[jetersbatboy]

Re: Hof?????

this is a HOF thread not a steroid one. I'll start a steroid thread for you two guys