Ethics and This Forum

[frikativ54]

Dear Forum Members,

I am very unhappy that my original post about Ethics and Game Used Memorabilia prices was deleted. I followed forum rules and posted only the facts - what price things were bought at and the new buying price. I did absolutely nothing wrong, and I take your deleting of my post to be a tacit endorsement that you find nothing wrong with the current state of Game Used Collecting. That is - buy an item for a certain price, rip an unsuspecting seller off, and then sell for as much as you choose.

If it makes it better, I needn't mention any names. This isn't about any personal vendetta against a certain collector; what it's about is the growing lack of ethics in the industry. People think that they can get a steal, mark an item up, and then get a true collector to fork over as much money as possible. I will post this issue again; if a dealer finds a legit Babe Ruth gamer at a flea market for $50, is it right to sell it for $50,000? What I think is right is letting the original seller know that he has a gem and paying reasonable market value for an item. But that is simply not the case in the current game-used hobby.

I need to ask a question of the moderators; are certain members of the community simply impervious to criticism if I object to their business practices? I don't think so. The only reason that I am in this hobby is because I love game-used collecting and the Houston Astros. I am not here to make a quick buck, and I believe in acting ethically. I sure wish people shared my concerns. This hobby is fast losing any enjoyment for me, because greed seems the only motive for certain dealers in the industry. Sometimes I just end up shaking my head and wondering why I am still participating.

[chakes89]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

You are heading for a lot of heartahce and/or trouble if you don't stop taking the hobby this so darn seriously and if you keep getting so preachy about it.




Not a threat by any means,

More of a warning if anything


Take that for what it's worth

[jetersbatboy]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

I am pretty new to GU collecting, I've bin doing it for a little more then a year now. And I've noticed only one rule about selling and buying a game used item it is only worth as much as some one is willing to sell it at or buy it at. With that said if the seller thought he got a great deal at $50 then he did. And if the buyer is willing to invest the time and money to have the bat authenticated and auctioned, then if he gets his $50000 all the better to him.

[jetersbatboy]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

and about letting the seller know he has a gem, If it was me I probaly would. But I also do think its a seller responsablity to there homework to. In the age of the net its no very hard

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

Frik
Didn't you get rid of all your Bagwell stuff, because he went public with his personal beliefs? If so, did you take a loss with your thousand-dollar-gloves?

How are you sure the Bagwell gloves in the buy it now were authentic?

Ain't no kid gonna sell no Ty Cobb for no five dollars no place no time, ever. (although, the cookies and milk story did make me cry.)

If you find a Babe Ruth gamer at a Flea Market for fitty bucks...BUY IT! I'll pay seventy-five.

Seriously. I agree, ethics suck.

[frikativ54]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

Frik
Didn't you get rid of all your Bagwell stuff, because he went public with his personal beliefs? If so, did you take a loss with your thousand-dollar-gloves?

Nope. It was Berkman. I have no problem with players going public with their personal beliefs. I admire what Josh Hamilton has been able to do with his sincere belief in Jesus, and have no problem with athletes talking about their own beliefs, just so long as they don't make others feel less-valuable. I just object to Berkman's saying Christianity is the only source of morality. That's a side-note though.

[jppopma]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

Frik,

You win some you lose some, thats my opinion at least. In the end hopefully my good deals with balance out the times which I have way overpaid.

In your case, I know it sucks to have an offer turned down or miss out on a BIN deal. We've all been there.

While I understand you point on ethics, this is really quite minor compared to some of the serious ethical matters in the hobby. I'd be more concerned about fake items, phantom COA's, and buyer's premiums.

For your example, the unethical dealer would talk the seller down to $30 on the Ruth gamer. I can't say for sure, but I'm thinking that your last post was taken down because it had alot of potential to turn bad and into a big fight.

Try not to sweat it and don't get too down on everytihng.

[bigtruck260]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

Hey Frik -

Business is business.

I spent HOURS upon HOURS on ethics while getting my masters degree and writing my thesis. "Flipping" is common practice for just about anything.

Antiques/Collectibles are no exception. How do you thing Antique dealers make money? They go to estate sales and buy from newspaper ads, etc. I would guess that if they found a great piece valued at $1000 - and the seller was offering it for $200, they would scoop it up without giving the seller the "blue book" value of the item.

When I was little, and I took my Ripken rookies to the local card store, the dealer bought them for $5 each - and I saw them in the case the next day for $45. All I wanted was $5 at the time, so I was happy. Sure, years later I was unhappy - but that's business.

A person can be ethical and a good person - and still make money.

I am a Christian, and a decent guy (I think) - but if I found a Ruth bat at a flea market for $50, and discovered it was a legit gamer...I would most certainly sell it for the maximum I could sell it for...he doesn't fit in my collection. I would pat myself on the back for being so business savvy, and helping another collector fill a gap in their collection.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

Hello Leslie,

I will explain why your post was deleted. While I will not re-post your entire post, here is the first paragraph:

"As many of you know, I am not a fan of getting steals off eBay, and I believe that in this industry we should not rip off unsuspecting buyers. Which brings me to eBay seller [name removed]. This member bought a pair of Jeff Bagwell gloves for a BIN of $125. Anyone who is familiar with Astros items knows that these pairs of batting gloves are worth much more than $125. I bought my pair of Jeff Bagwell batting gloves for $1,000, and from talking with Chris Boyd, he regularly sells pairs of batting gloves for in the ballpark of $800. First of all, for [name removed] to totally rip off a seller knowing how much these gloves are worth is simply immoral. Second of all, to sell them to eBayers at his new BIN of $599.99 shows that this seller is only out to make a profit."

Basically:

1) Contrary to your post in this thread where you said you "...didn't mention any names" you actually mentioned the person's selling ID twice in your first paragraph.

2) You accused the person of being unethical for buying an item on eBay via a 'Buy It Now' price that was created by the seller. Later in your post, you went on to use an analogy of someone making an offer on an item knowing what it was worth in an attempt to intentionally mislead a owner to sell an item under false pretenses. Very simply, buying an item on eBay for the price listed by a seller of their own volition is not at all analogous to your example.

3) Ironically, later in the thread we came to find out you actually made three offers to the seller that were close to the price he paid for them. Here are your words, "I made three offers that were all in the ballpark of what you paid for them. But I posted this here after you auto-declined my three offers, and I realized that your only goal was to make money." Under your logic, your offers would make you guilty of the same thing you accused the seller of doing. You made an offer at a price you thought was well below their worth. If the seller sold them for that price you would have bought the gloves yourself.

If you would like to make a post asking the question of whether or not it is "unethical" to buy an item for a seller's asking price if you believe the item is worth more than please feel free to do so. However, in this case you accused someone of being "unethical" for buying an item for the seller's voluntary listed price on eBay and then attempting to sell the item for more later. There is just no way we were going to allow your post to remain given the inaccuracies and accusations that included the person's ID.

To go further, I would like ask everyone to please follow the spirit of the following forum rule:

It is expected that all posts are to be created with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby. Any posts which the Administrator deems as a personal attack or an attempt to unnecessarily discredit others will be subject to the administrative rules of the forum.

We appreciate your compliance and you can feel free to email me directly if you have any other questions.

[suave1477]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

Hello Leslie,

I will explain why your post was deleted. While I will not re-post your entire post, here is the first paragraph:

"As many of you know, I am not a fan of getting steals off eBay, and I believe that in this industry we should not rip off unsuspecting buyers. Which brings me to eBay seller [name removed]. This member bought a pair of Jeff Bagwell gloves for a BIN of $125. Anyone who is familiar with Astros items knows that these pairs of batting gloves are worth much more than $125. I bought my pair of Jeff Bagwell batting gloves for $1,000, and from talking with Chris Boyd, he regularly sells pairs of batting gloves for in the ballpark of $800. First of all, for [name removed] to totally rip off a seller knowing how much these gloves are worth is simply immoral. Second of all, to sell them to eBayers at his new BIN of $599.99 shows that this seller is only out to make a profit."

Basically:

1) Contrary to your post in this thread where you said you "...didn't mention any names" you actually mentioned the person's selling ID twice in your first paragraph.

2) You accused the person of being unethical for buying an item on eBay via a 'Buy It Now' price that was created by the seller. Later in your post, you went on to use an analogy of someone making an offer on an item knowing what it was worth in an attempt to intentionally mislead a owner to sell an item under false pretenses. Very simply, buying an item on eBay for the price listed by a seller of their own volition is not at all analogous to your example.

3) Ironically, later in the thread we came to find out you actually made three offers to the seller that were close to the price he paid for them. Here are your words, "I made three offers that were all in the ballpark of what you paid for them. But I posted this here after you auto-declined my three offers, and I realized that your only goal was to make money." Under your logic, your offers would make you guilty of the same thing you accused the seller of doing. You made an offer at a price you thought was well below their worth. If the seller sold them for that price you would have bought the gloves yourself.

If you would like to make a post asking the question of whether or not it is "unethical" to buy an item for a seller's asking price if you believe the item is worth more than please feel free to do so. However, in this case you accused someone of being "unethical" for buying an item for the seller's voluntary listed price on eBay and then attempting to sell the item for more later. There is just no way we were going to allow your post to remain given the inaccuracies and accusations that included the person's ID.

To go further, I would like ask everyone to please follow the spirit of the following forum rule:

It is expected that all posts are to be created with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby. Any posts which the Administrator deems as a personal attack or an attempt to unnecessarily discredit others will be subject to the administrative rules of the forum.

We appreciate your compliance and you can feel free to email me directly if you have any other questions.

CHRIS WELL SAID!!!

[otismalibu]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

I think it's time to start voting people off the island.

[ziggy]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

You paid $1000 for game used batting gloves?

[BergerKing22784]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

I agree items are only worth as much as someone is willing to buy them for. I wont call myself cheap but I am a collector on a budget, as I am a college student with a college student paying job haha. I get jealous to see some of the items you wont call you old but well established in your life adults have because you can afford these items!

But back to my point items are only worth what someone wants to pay and I will use myself for example. I am all about a steal or a bargain. I recently made a request for Rafael Furcal items and I will admit the response was pretty good I apperciate it guys.

Some of the prices were also a little high in my opinion. I have made 3 Furcal bat purchases with pictures of him signing the bats and a signed COA from him from PCM, so their legitamacy is pretty much good. Anyway I paid $99 for each of them and was the only bidder. So if you ask me that is the current value for a Furcal game used bat. I had people offering me bats for much higher than that and i would make a counter offer showing them they ebay links and they would get upset at me. Telling me that price is way to low! They choose the price if I decline and try and show them why please dont get upset with me, I am just showing you the current market value or what I expect to pay.

I sorta went off topic with the ethics part of this didnt I? Haha

Oh nevermind I know where I ment to go with this!

I highly doubt the seller will be able to sell those gloves for 600 bucks anyway to me in my eyes that is way way to much money. But I do agree he has the right to attempt to do so regardless of what he paid. It is no different than buying a house and fixing it up a little bit and trying to resell it. Sorry you couldnt get the item as cheap as he did, first come first serve dude.

[3arod13]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

I buy to sell in order to support my (collection) collecting habits. I'm always looking for those great deals where I know I can turn the item around to make a profit (big profit if possible).

If I see an item list with a buy it now of $125, and I know the item easily is worth $500...I'm jumping on it. I'm not obligated, nor do I feel that I should have to tell the seller anything, especially considering they set the buy it now price.

Many people sell many things and have no idea what they are worth.

I love America!

[orioles03]

Re: Ethics and This Forum

I buy to sell in order to support my (collection) collecting habits. I'm always looking for those great deals where I know I can turn the item around to make a profit (big profit if possible).

If I see an item list with a buy it now of $125, and I know the item easily is worth $500...I'm jumping on it. I'm not obligated, nor do I feel that I should have to tell the seller anything, especially considering they set the buy it now price.

Many people sell many things and have no idea what they are worth.

I love America!

WELL SAID AGREE 100%