Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

[ndevlin]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

I agree with just about all of what everyone is saying! Ive said this before-

This site is like sandpaper to the skin at times! Its run at a very unprofessional manner.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Hello Everyone,

Let me try to be as clear as possible. If you look through previous posts, you will see numerous times where we have said the members do make this site great and we have often thanked people for the contributions they make.

With that said, we have also mentioned that GUU is a business and will need to generate revenues to exist. I know some people have expressed the desire for GUU to continue to invest in building the site and have everyone involved with the site to work for free but that is simply not possible. In creating a model to generate revenue we have chosen one that allows people to use the forum for free and where we will attempt to generate revenue through a transaction model that we believe is an improvement over existing models and one that is greatly beneficial to the collecting community. Among other things, it is our way of offering something to the collecting community and we are very happy that collectors don't need to pay anything to use the forum. In fact, I think a number of people on this thread (eGameUsed, mvandor, sammy, whatupyos, etc.) will attest to the fact that they are complimentary members and we have not charged them a dime for the use of any of the services on this site despite the costs involved with running it. We believe setting things up this way has allowed collectors to benefit from more and more people using the site and freely sharing information with one another. We also believe that is one of the reasons this site has been so influential in creating change in the hobby for the better.

As far as the ability to sell on the site, we have also set up the collector to collector classifieds section free of charge to collectors. Thus, collectors can use the forum for free as well as the classified section without any charge whatsoever. As with the use of the forum, we are happy to offer this service to collectors and hope they enjoy using it.

Where GUU will attempt to generate its revenues is through the transaction models that we believe also provides unprecedented benefits to collectors. For example, in our consignment auctions, not only do we do all the things other auction houses do (evaluations, write-ups, etc.), we also created custom software where people can ask questions publicly and those questions could be answered by publicly by anyone with substantiated information. While we thought collectors would be thrilled to have such a system available to them when considering an item for purchase, we were surprised to see that some have tried to accuse us of using "free labor". With all due respect, when you look at things objectively, we are doing all the things any other auction house does prior to allowing collectors to answer questions, etc. While we thought it would be a great system where we not only do all the things others do but also allow anyone who wishes to participate in the process to do so, it seems some have tried to paint a picture of us trying to exploit the members. Quite simply, that picture is erroneous and misguided.

In fact, I think that seems to be the issue overall. While we provide a number of things to collectors that I think few others offer and we are creating systems that allow the community to provide help to each other, there are some who simply will not like the fact that not everything is going to be free in perpetuity. We have invested a great deal of money to get the site to where it is today and we believe we are helping collectors in enormous ways. We will give everything we can to the community but, at the same time, we will need to generate income to continue. We believe this can be done in ways where both parties benefit. It’s really not more complicated than that.

Here is the bottom line equation. Everyone wishing to come here can use the forum for free if they so chose. We believe setting things up that way is allowing for greater participation and more benefits to collectors. Collectors also have the ability to use the collector to collector classifieds and we won't charge them a dime. Businesses and dealers can also use the forum for free. However, if they wish to sell through GUU they can use the consignment auctions of the platform that we will be rolling out (the target date for the platform rollout is September 15 but I don't want to make a promise in case there is a hold-up). We believe it is a structure where the collecting community can benefit in unprecedented ways and GUU can also exist as a business. We believe it is a win/win situation for all who wish to participate and it will help the hobby continue to move in a positive direction.

[suave1477]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Hello Everyone,

Let me try to be as clear as possible. If you look through previous posts, you will see numerous times where we have said the members do make this site great and we have often thanked people for the contributions they make.

With that said, we have also mentioned that GUU is a business and will need to generate revenues to exist. I know some people have expressed the desire for GUU to continue to invest in building the site and have everyone involved with the site to work for free but that is simply not possible. In creating a model to generate revenue we have chosen one that allows people to use the forum for free and where we will attempt to generate revenue through a transaction model that we believe is an improvement over existing models and one that is greatly beneficial to the collecting community. Among other things, it is our way of offering something to the collecting community and we are very happy that collectors don't need to pay anything to use the forum. In fact, I think a number of people on this thread (eGameUsed, mvandor, sammy, whatupyos, etc.) will attest to the fact that they are complimentary members and we have not charged them a dime for the use of any of the services on this site despite the costs involved with running it. We believe setting things up this way has allowed collectors to benefit from more and more people using the site and freely sharing information with one another. We also believe that is one of the reasons this site has been so influential in creating change in the hobby for the better.

As far as the ability to sell on the site, we have also set up the collector to collector classifieds section free of charge to collectors. Thus, collectors can use the forum for free as well as the classified section without any charge whatsoever. As with the use of the forum, we are happy to offer this service to collectors and hope they enjoy using it.

Where GUU will attempt to generate its revenues is through the transaction models that we believe also provides unprecedented benefits to collectors. For example, in our consignment auctions, not only do we do all the things other auction houses do (evaluations, write-ups, etc.), we also created custom software where people can ask questions publicly and those questions could be answered by publicly by anyone with substantiated information. While we thought collectors would be thrilled to have such a system available to them when considering an item for purchase, we were surprised to see that some have tried to accuse us of using "free labor". With all due respect, when you look at things objectively, we are doing all the things any other auction house does prior to allowing collectors to answer questions, etc. While we thought it would be a great system where we not only do all the things others do but also allow anyone who wishes to participate in the process to do so, it seems some have tried to paint a picture of us trying to exploit the members. Quite simply, that picture is erroneous and misguided.

In fact, I think that seems to be the issue overall. While we provide a number of things to collectors that I think few others offer and we are creating systems that allow the community to provide help to each other, there are some who simply will not like the fact that not everything is going to be free in perpetuity. We have invested a great deal of money to get the site to where it is today and we believe we are helping collectors in enormous ways. We will give everything we can to the community but, at the same time, we will need to generate income to continue. We believe this can be done in ways where both parties benefit. It’s really not more complicated than that.

Here is the bottom line equation. Everyone wishing to come here can use the forum for free if they so chose. We believe setting things up that way is allowing for greater participation and more benefits to collectors. Collectors also have the ability to use the collector to collector classifieds and we won't charge them a dime. Businesses and dealers can also use the forum for free. However, if they wish to sell through GUU they can use the consignment auctions of the platform that we will be rolling out (the target date for the platform rollout is September 15 but I don't want to make a promise in case there is a hold-up). We believe it is a structure where the collecting community can benefit in unprecedented ways and GUU can also exist as a business. We believe it is a win/win situation for all who wish to participate and it will help the hobby continue to move in a positive direction.

Chris I do apologize if you take this as any offense BUT!!!

It was a very interestinging explanation you gave by selling us how great this site is.
Yet you still ignored my questions???
I started this thread with questions for you and/or any other admin who would care to answer.
You have so far now come on here twice and with the second answer elaborately selling me on how great this site is and all the wonderful advantages this site provides.
At any point can you please answer my concerns / questions?

Example: your trying to sell me a car with out an engine and im asking you about the engine and you keep going on telling me how great it has a sunroof and stereo

If you do not care to answer my question directly that is fine but then just say so........ dont avoid it by telling me what great features this site offers.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Chris I do apologize if you take this as any offense BUT!!!

It was a very interestinging explanation you gave by selling us how great this site is.
Yet you still ignored my questions???
I started this thread with questions for you and/or any other admin who would care to answer.
You have so far now come on here twice and with the second answer elaborately selling me on how great this site is and all the wonderful advantages this site provides.
At any point can you please answer my concerns / questions?

Example: your trying to sell me a car with out an engine and im asking you about the engine and you keep going on telling me how great it has a sunroof and stereo

If you do not care to answer my question directly that is fine but then just say so........ dont avoid it by telling me what great features this site offers.

Hello Jason,

I believe the post was considered as coming from a dealer because it listed 43 items and opened with the following statements:

"Dear Members here is a small portion of our Inventory if there is anything your interested in please ask.

GREAT ITEMS AT LOW PRICES

WE HAVE TONS MORE IN STOCK JUST EMAIL ME!!!"

Among other things, I think your reference to "inventory" and "tons more items in stock" is what qualified you as a dealer.

Does that answer your question?

[ndevlin]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

While we're on the subject:

With this new platform coming on the 15th, what effects will the upcoming fall auction have on this new platform, as well as the classified section we have now?

[trsent]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Chris I do apologize if you take this as any offense BUT!!!

It was a very interestinging explanation you gave by selling us how great this site is.
Yet you still ignored my questions???
I started this thread with questions for you and/or any other admin who would care to answer.
You have so far now come on here twice and with the second answer elaborately selling me on how great this site is and all the wonderful advantages this site provides.
At any point can you please answer my concerns / questions?

Example: your trying to sell me a car with out an engine and im asking you about the engine and you keep going on telling me how great it has a sunroof and stereo

If you do not care to answer my question directly that is fine but then just say so........ dont avoid it by telling me what great features this site offers.

Jason, don't you have a web site selling memorabilia?

[CollectGU]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Hello Everyone,


With that said, we have also mentioned that GUU is a business and will need to generate revenues to exist.

.

Chris,

Just to be clear, you need to generate revenue to make money for yourself and the owners of GUU. You make it sound like the site couldn't exist without being a business, when in fact, it would exist and thrive without being a business just as it did when Eric ran it. You don't need to do what you are doing to keep the site up, you choose to do it to try and make money, which is fine. This site could exist without an auction and fee based for sale section.....

Regards,
Dave

[mvandor]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Chris, let's be honest with each other here. I've said before I don't take issue with GUU becoming a for profit entity. I HAVE taken issue, as a forum member (I assume as a free member I'm entitled to voice my opinion) with the recent modding of the forums, which have a non-profit past history.

The style of modding has become heavy handed and frankly insensitive, generating a backlash from me and others. All of this can be EASILY resolved if you and your admins would take a few seconds to politely COMMUNICATE your actions to people.

Case #1 was suspension or termination of forum membership for a generally well regarded and liked member who made a mistake and apologized for it. I never saw if he was reinstated after some time off, rather it seemed your approach to dealing with the uproar in that thread became "ignore it and it'll go away".

Case #2 was Suave's items being pulled from the 4 sale forum (which you've now explained and I certainly agree makes sense) without the courtesy of notification to him. The issue isn't the removal, it's the lack of communication.

There simply seems to be no regognition on your part that these actions were handled with no concern as to PR, there just seems to be a "my way or the highway" attitude around here lately.

I'm not so naive as to think GUU took over these forums as a public service, clearly you were in essence attaining an active customer base by taking them over. I do not understand how you feel these actions and your handling of them are not going to result in members departing and looking for somewhere else to post. From a strictly business standpoint, that's contrary to your business interests.

[suave1477]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Jason, don't you have a web site selling memorabilia?

Joel as you know I am trying to be civil with you due to our past so I will answer your question as it is directly based on this topic/question.

Do I have a site? I own a site

As far as the site itself selling memorabilia it is not up at the moment due to some problems with the web designer I had hired.
It hasn't been up for some time due to me having priorites that come before this.

So as far as the website rule!!! Really would not apply to me since I do not have an active website that can be viewed by the public at this present time.

But I do own the name to the site and have the database for it.

[trsent]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Chris,

Just to be clear, you need to generate revenue to make money for yourself and the owners of GUU. You make it sound like the site couldn't exist without being a business, when in fact, it would exist and thrive without being a business just as it did when Eric ran it. You don't need to do what you are doing to keep the site up, you choose to do it to try and make money, which is fine. This site could exist without an auction and fee based for sale section.....

Regards,
Dave

I don't know about everyone else, but I assume everyone has bills to pay.

I do not agree with the new policy of policing who can or cannot post in the for sale section, but I understand it is a rule and I do not sell there. I do not understand how a rule can be so vague, but it is because there will always be dealers selling in the thread who no one knows are dealers.

I also find it wrong that those of us classified as dealers who are regular contributors to this forum are told we cannot sell as collectors in the new for sale section.

With all that being said, this site is a private business, and they can run it however they wish. I think it has come to the point where we get frustrated as do the moderators and then it appears to be a dictatorship (someone used that term earlier) because often there is so much silliness on this forum.

This site is like eBay. People complain about eBay all the time, but whenever someone tries to create competition, they fail because everyone flocks to eBay. Same with this forum. This place is the bomb and anyone who tries to create a new place for these discussions will find poor turnout.

I applaud Game Used Universe for providing us with this site and hopefully the new dealer selling forum will work to make everyone happy!

[trsent]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Joel as you know I am trying to be civil with you due to our past so I will answer your question as it is directly based on this topic/question.

Do I have a site? I own a site

As far as the site itself selling memorabilia it is not up at the moment due to some problems with the web designer I had hired.
It hasn't been up for some time due to me having priorites that come before this.

So as far as the website rule!!! Really would not apply to me since I do not have an active website that can be viewed by the public at this present time.

But I do own the name to the site and have the database for it.

Thank you for answering my question.

So, yes, you own a web site to sell memorabilia.

[3arod13]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Wow! How much GUU has changed since I found it a few years ago.

So much negativity today.

[3arod13]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Wow! How much GUU has changed since I found it a few years ago.

So much negativity today.

Don't get me wrong. There are many valid points. However, it just seems to keep going on...and on...and on.

As I stated before...you can't please everyone.

[sylbry]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

If you are going to be in the business of selling memorabilia then you will also need an outlet to sell them. It is a necessary business expense. For some time dealers were able to list their inventory for free via GUU. GUU asked for nothing in return.

Now GUU, having a new direction in mind, cut the free listings for dealers. Afterall it isn't one business' job to subsidize another business' expenses. To that I say to the dealers, adapt, move on, or get out of the business.

And I reluctantly say it because the quality of items in the for sale section has greatly decreased which in turn affects us all.

GUU may want to think about adding a "dealer directory" where for a small fee dealers could have a link to their own websites. Just a thought.

I do believe a line needs to be drawn distinguishing a dealer to avoid all of this confusion. Personally I believe if you buy more items with the intention of resale than you do for your collection then you are a dealer.

Bottom line is GUU is a private business that can be run anyway the owners choose. They could turn the site into a Pez dispenser forum if they really wanted and no one can tell them differently. On that same note GUU must recognize that as a business they need to be clearer with their policies and provide better communication.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Again Why Was My For Sale Thread Deleted??? Admins??

Chris,

Just to be clear, you need to generate revenue to make money for yourself and the owners of GUU. You make it sound like the site couldn't exist without being a business, when in fact, it would exist and thrive without being a business just as it did when Eric ran it. You don't need to do what you are doing to keep the site up, you choose to do it to try and make money, which is fine. This site could exist without an auction and fee based for sale section.....

Regards,
Dave

Hello Dave,

You are absolutely correct that we are running a business. However, I think your assumption that Eric would have been willing to continue to commit significant financial resources and all his personal time to run this site as a charity is a bit misguided. In fact, that is the reason the forum was sold to GUU as a business transaction. It was not given to us as a gift.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with Eric selling the forum as a business transaction. He invested a great deal of his time and money to get the site going. I don't think it would have been fair for him to invest significant time and resources without the hope of some return. That simply wouldn't be fair. I think the same is also true for GUU. We have invested a great deal of time and money to create something we believe is helping the collecting community. That is what good businesses do. They recognize an unmet need in a market and invest to create a product or service that will help people. If they achieve that objective the business should succeed.

Notably, the forum is still free to members the same way it has always been. We also have the collector to collector classifieds section which is also free to any collector wanting to use it. The real issue is that some of the members also want us to allow everyone to sell on the site for free and run the site as a charity. Rather than being thanked (like Joel graciously did in his post), we have been attacked for trying to run a business.

I agree with some of the recent posts about the negativity and complaining. If you really think it is fair to expect people to invest large amounts of their time and energy and run this site as a charity, you can do one of the following:

1) You can invest your own time and a great deal of money (this site has grown because we have spent a large amount of money not only on developing the site but also advertising it, going to trade shows, etc.) and set up your own site as a charitable entity.

2) You can buy the forum from us (the same way we did from Eric) and you can run it as a charity.

It's sad I have to say that because I believe, and have heard in person from untold numbers of people first hand, that they think what we are doing is the greatest thing that has ever happened to the hobby. Not only is the forum free for people to use but the transaction models we have created are more transparent than collectors have ever seen while also allowing them to get all the answers they need for items of interest rather than solely relying on the opinions of a select few.

Personally, I agree that it is wearying to have to hear these negative comments. I think it would be much better to focus on how we can help each other the way the site is intended. On a separate note, as for us being "heavy-handed" we have allowed numerous personal attacks directed toward us while it would have been perfectly in our right to ban or suspend people in accordance to the rules. In fact, I have received quite a few emails and personal comments asking why we haven't banned some people from the site already. The answer is, that is not what we are about. We are about creating a community where people can contribute to the benefit of one another.

With that said, if you are going to continue posting here I think everyone would appreciate it if the focus was on how we can continue to help each other make the hobby better.