Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

[josh@hugginsandscott.com]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

All:

very interesting discussion. All of us at Huggins and Scott appreciate the support that we receive from many of you (Aaron, Joel, etc...). I do apologize for letting the item into the auction in the first place. We try our best to do research on every item that we sell, but to be honest, we are human and we do make mistakes. In this particular case, this helmet was sold to us about a year and half ago in a large deal of other authentic game-used football helmets. A few of the better ones were looked at by an advanced collector and he purchased those, as he liked them. What was left, was sold individually in our October 2007 sale. This Oilers helmet was one of them. The research that was done was to determine the potential players who wore #11 at the time that this helmet would have been used.

We have since pulled the helmet and fully refunded the consignor his money and apologized for any error or inconvenience. I will also offer our apologies to the board, as it is not our intention to deceive anyone or offer "bad" material to the public. We will stand behind any item we sell and we are thankful that people like Robert and others have more knowledge than we do on items like this and can help us sell only quality items through our auction.

If you have any other questions, or concerns, please feel free to email me directly. One of the things that we take great pride in is our customer service. In the future, if someone has an issue with what we are selling, you can email me directly and we can have a discussion about it.

thanks again,
Josh Wulkan
VP of Auction Operations
Huggins and Scott Auctions

https://www.hugginsandscott.com

[RKGIBSON]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

Josh,

Thank you for a honest explanation. Most auction companies never respond to points raised here. Integrity over money will always lend benefits in the future.

Roger

[cjmedina1]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

Forum Members

I'm in no way a expert in game used helmets,But I can recognize great customer service.People make mistakes and as long we all learn from our mistakes,We are going to be that much smarter down the road....This is my first time reading about an H&S auction item having a problem........I think they've handled it in a timely,professional matter.To top it all off The V.P of Operations Josh Wulkan came on this message board and gave us an explanation on how they got the item and the result of the findings in this thread,Now having the auction lot pulled.For H&S to come on here admit they made a mistake,It says alot and I tip my hat to them,I cant say that about other auction houses.

On a personal note I've won 2 items in different auctions from H&S and I'm very impressed with their customer service....So Josh tell your team to keep up the good work and I cant wait until you get some more high end Mcgwire bats

Carlie Medina III
carliemedinaiii@sbcglobal.net

[trsent]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

Robert does a great job helping anyone and everyone when they need help with a helmet question...

Everyone of his posts have substance and I enjoy reading them because I feel educated...Thanks Robert!!!!

At least for myself....I definitely skip over any post that TRsent puts up here because there is never any substance..I got suckered in on this one because I saw Robert was posting and was looking forward to learning something...but there he is rying to instigate again

I hope that you aren't offended in any way by this guy Robert...because if you quit posting, like other knowlegable people have, the forum will be taking 10 Steps back!!!

I do not mind Robert's posts until the auction house comes on the forum, says they will look into the issue and Robert still complains how they could have made the error in the first place.

Now Huggins and Scott has given a full explanation and pulled the lot.

We have an auction house that replies to us on the forum and Robert didn't want to accept they made an error, he wants them to still be punished after admitting they would investigate the error.

Pete Peschel, I do not know what your issue is with me, but I have not seen or talked to you in over 15 years. If you have anything you wish to discuss, my email address is listed in every post I make on Game Used Universe and I will gladly correspond with you if you have anything you would like to work out. If you do not wish to read my posts, click on my used name above and there is a button you can click to block my posts.

Again, I do not mind the research Robert has done, I find it amazing. I mind that after the auction house comes on here and comments, they still received a hard time for doing what was right. Errors happen, a lack of understanding is an issue.

[commando]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

First off, let me say that my post is not targeted at Huggins & Scott in any way, but to sports auction houses in general. There is no doubt in my mind that Huggins & Scott is an honest, reputable establishment that has excellent communication, as we have seen in this thread. I wholeheartedly think that the helmet in question here was listed in error (which I'll give my humble opinion on below).

We all understand that the competent authentication of vintage memorabilia is important because of an obvious reason -- big money is at stake. Hungry collectors seem quite happy to spend big bucks on scarce jersey and helmet styles (which the 1966-71 Houston Oilers helmet style certainly qualifies. I can't remember the last time I saw one available). As far as the present debate between trsent (Joel) and aeneas01 (Robert), I believe both of you bring up good points. My humble opinion resembles that of Robert's more closely, and here's why:

It's true that everyone makes mistakes in life and at their jobs... But I believe there are different levels of mistakes, and we all know there are different levels of consequences. For example, sticking with the police officer theme, let's say that an officer issues a ticket to someone for "jaywalking" across a street, and it later turns out the pedestrian hadn't broken any laws. A judge can find the person "not guilty" and life goes on. But what if the officer believes he sees someone jaywalking, throws them to the ground, cuffs them, puts them in the back of a patrol car, and brings them to jail? Not only would the officer lose their job, but they would probably lose their house too after the civil suit.

Keep in mind that a police officer has been thoroughly trained, both in an academy and with training officers on the street, so this kind of example rarely happens.

What I'm trying to say is that there are definitely different "levels" of mistakes, as others have pointed out. It is not enough to just say that everyone makes them... You need to consider the severity of the mistake versus the supposed qualifications of the expert. When an auction house states, "...we strive not only to have the best in the business authenticating our memorabilia, but also to have the most experience possible in our team of authenticators to always ensure our customers satisfaction" (once again, this is not talking about Huggins & Scott), what are they stating? Hopefully, this means a simple Getty Images search won't make them look like fools.

Debate is a good thing. Mudslinging is not. The vast majority of us want to be a part of a fun, clean hobby. Maybe we have differing opinions on what "mudslinging" actually means. But i think we all realize that knowledge is key in this hobby, and threads in this forum have given me lots of it.

[lund6771]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

I do not mind Robert's posts until the auction house comes on the forum, says they will look into the issue and Robert still complains how they could have made the error in the first place.

Now Huggins and Scott has given a full explanation and pulled the lot.

We have an auction house that replies to us on the forum and Robert didn't want to accept they made an error, he wants them to still be punished after admitting they would investigate the error.

Pete Peschel, I do not know what your issue is with me, but I have not seen or talked to you in over 15 years. If you have anything you wish to discuss, my email address is listed in every post I make on Game Used Universe and I will gladly correspond with you if you have anything you would like to work out. If you do not wish to read my posts, click on my used name above and there is a button you can click to block my posts.

Again, I do not mind the research Robert has done, I find it amazing. I mind that after the auction house comes on here and comments, they still received a hard time for doing what was right. Errors happen, a lack of understanding is an issue.

I have no issues with you...in fact I don't ever remember speaking with you 15 years ago...have I bought somethng from you?...

anyways it seems that you have opinions on every thread...I'm a substance kind of guy and not a Chatty Cathy....and it seems to me that you try to instigate..maybe I'm wromg, but that's how I'm reading it

I enjoy coming on here and learning from guys like Robert and many others...I hope that knowledgable people like them will not be turned of from the forum because of mixing it up with you

but it is a free world so post away and I'll follow your suggestion about the block button

[lund6771]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

I also think that H & S' s post was very positive as well..

it'd be nice if other auction houses did the same....I don't know anything about helmets, but if Robert feels that strongly about what this helmet really is....it must be that bad

[trsent]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

I have no issues with you...in fact I don't ever remember speaking with you 15 years ago...have I bought somethng from you?...

anyways it seems that you have opinions on every thread...I'm a substance kind of guy and not a Chatty Cathy....and it seems to me that you try to instigate..maybe I'm wromg, but that's how I'm reading it

I enjoy coming on here and learning from guys like Robert and many others...I hope that knowledgable people like them will not be turned of from the forum because of mixing it up with you

but it is a free world so post away and I'll follow your suggestion about the block button

If you don't remember me, no big deal. I remember you so we will leave it at that. Do you still have a brick throwing gallery in your basement?

[aeneas01]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

All:

very interesting discussion. All of us at Huggins and Scott appreciate the support that we receive from many of you (Aaron, Joel, etc...). I do apologize for letting the item into the auction in the first place. We try our best to do research on every item that we sell, but to be honest, we are human and we do make mistakes. In this particular case, this helmet was sold to us about a year and half ago in a large deal of other authentic game-used football helmets. A few of the better ones were looked at by an advanced collector and he purchased those, as he liked them. What was left, was sold individually in our October 2007 sale. This Oilers helmet was one of them. The research that was done was to determine the potential players who wore #11 at the time that this helmet would have been used.

We have since pulled the helmet and fully refunded the consignor his money and apologized for any error or inconvenience. I will also offer our apologies to the board, as it is not our intention to deceive anyone or offer "bad" material to the public. We will stand behind any item we sell and we are thankful that people like Robert and others have more knowledge than we do on items like this and can help us sell only quality items through our auction.

If you have any other questions, or concerns, please feel free to email me directly. One of the things that we take great pride in is our customer service. In the future, if someone has an issue with what we are selling, you can email me directly and we can have a discussion about it.

thanks again,
Josh Wulkan
VP of Auction Operations
Huggins and Scott Auctions
www.hugginsandscott.com

josh -

i agree that it has been an interesting discussion and i think it's very commendable (and beneficial to all concerned) that you chose to participate in this discussion.

for the record, i emailed your company with my concerns the first time you listed this helmet a year and a half ago - as a matter of fact the photos of the helmet that i've included in this thread are actually from your previous auction, not your current auction, which i saved to my reference photo database. despite the two emails i sent, your company never responded and the helmet eventually sold for around $800. to be clear, this was before i was an active member to this forum - before i began posting such concerns publicly.

i would like to think that my emails to you were simply lost in the shuffle - that you didn't respond this time around simply because the issue was made public. i mention this only because of my past experiences with other auction houses. but given the nice things forum members i respect have said about your company, i'm sure my emails to you must have simply been an unfortunate oversight.

as i mentioned before, i understand that mistakes do happen - in all walks of life. no one at this forum expects an auction house to bat 1.000. further, i don't believe that anyone implied that it was h&s's intention to deceive in this matter - i know i certainly didn't. as i stated, my concern was that i found it very difficult to understand how such an obviously problematic item could have passed even the most casual inspection. but from your explanation it appears that the helmet was never really looked at - an "advanced collector" looked at a few of the helmets from your bulk buy and purchased those and the "extensive research" preformed by your company was only to determine who might have worn number 11 during that era. if this is the case how could you list the helmet as an authentic game used helmet? and if the "advanced collector" did look at the oilers helmet, were you not curious why he would pass on such a rare item?

btw was the current consignor the same person that purchased your helmet a year and a half ago for around $800? if not, will you contact the original buyer? is that even possible now that so much time has passed? i know that mastro had success contacting the buyers of erroneously advertised helmets, helmets that mastro incorrectly claimed were authenticated by mears.

anyway thanks again for participating in this discussion - more importantly thanks for understanding that the goal here is not to marginalize the reputations of auction houses but, as you put so well, help auction houses sell only quality items through their auctions.


...

[RKGIBSON]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

Lund,

Have you got Earnest T. Bass in your basement?

Roger

[jppopma]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

I normally don't respond to the drama on here, but seeing that people are trying to explain things with police examples...I will give some law enforcement input.

Say an officer gets a call of a bank robbery with the description of a white male wearing a red ballcap. He drives down the street and sees a black male wearing this white Oilers helmet. He grabs the guy he sees walking and cuffs him up. Now when someone else points out that he made an OBVIOUS error...what does he do? Accept that the error is obvious and move on, or say let's hold this guy for an hour while we do some more checking.

The point that Aeneas brought up is that sometimes mistake is so obvious, that there should be no need for an in depth investigastion to it.

As for the auction houses, kuddos to Huggins and Scott for making amends. With the money they all make, I'm sure they can pay some pretty good lawyers to write a 10 page liability clause. That's the whole purpose of this forum; to help people with the buyer beware aspect that our hobby brings.

[trsent]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

I normally don't respond to the drama on here, but seeing that people are trying to explain things with police examples...I will give some law enforcement input.

Say an officer gets a call of a bank robbery with the description of a white male wearing a red ballcap. He drives down the street and sees a black male wearing this white Oilers helmet. He grabs the guy he sees walking and cuffs him up. Now when someone else points out that he made an OBVIOUS error...what does he do? Accept that the error is obvious and move on, or say let's hold this guy for an hour while we do some more checking.

The point that Aeneas brought up is that sometimes mistake is so obvious, that there should be no need for an in depth investigastion to it.

As for the auction houses, kuddos to Huggins and Scott for making amends. With the money they all make, I'm sure they can pay some pretty good lawyers to write a 10 page liability clause. That's the whole purpose of this forum; to help people with the buyer beware aspect that our hobby brings.

Amen.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

Lund,

Have you got Earnest T. Bass in your basement?

Roger

right-wing nut

[josh@hugginsandscott.com]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

Robert,

we actually have only sold this helmet once. It was in our March 2007 sale. The hammer price was $600.00 + 15% buyers premium = $690.00. The person that bought it is the same person that consigned it back to us for this auction and we completely refunded his money.

As for your emails, I am actually the person that receives every email that comes to the general mailbox of our company and there has not been a single email questioning the authenticity of any item that I have not personally and specifically addressed. I am not saying you didn't send the emails, but I can guarantee you, that if I had received them, I absolutely would have addressed the situation. I can also guarantee that if those emails had been as clear as your post here, there is no way I would have left that Oilers helmet in our March 2007 sale. Believe me, I have been doing shows and in this business for 23 years, since I was 13 years old (all with Bill Huggins). If situations like this arise, I deal with them, immediately. I don't want any bad items in the market place, and certainly not ones that we would have sold. I apologize if those emails were sent and not responded to, but I can assure you that I didn't receive them. For the future, for you and anyone else, please feel free to keep my direct email around. If you ever see anything in any one of our auctions, that you have questions on, please email me and I will be happy to look into it and try to resolve the matter as quickly as possible.

thanks again,
Josh Wulkan
VP of Auction Operations
Huggins and Scott Auctions
josh@hugginsandscott.com

[aeneas01]

Re: Hunt Auctions, Huggins & Scott...

Robert,

we actually have only sold this helmet once. It was in our March 2007 sale. The hammer price was $600.00 + 15% buyers premium = $690.00. The person that bought it is the same person that consigned it back to us for this auction and we completely refunded his money.

As for your emails, I am actually the person that receives every email that comes to the general mailbox of our company and there has not been a single email questioning the authenticity of any item that I have not personally and specifically addressed. I am not saying you didn't send the emails, but I can guarantee you, that if I had received them, I absolutely would have addressed the situation. I can also guarantee that if those emails had been as clear as your post here, there is no way I would have left that Oilers helmet in our March 2007 sale. Believe me, I have been doing shows and in this business for 23 years, since I was 13 years old (all with Bill Huggins). If situations like this arise, I deal with them, immediately. I don't want any bad items in the market place, and certainly not ones that we would have sold. I apologize if those emails were sent and not responded to, but I can assure you that I didn't receive them. For the future, for you and anyone else, please feel free to keep my direct email around. If you ever see anything in any one of our auctions, that you have questions on, please email me and I will be happy to look into it and try to resolve the matter as quickly as possible.

thanks again,
Josh Wulkan
VP of Auction Operations
Huggins and Scott Auctions
josh@hugginsandscott.com

i have to say josh, you have convinced me of the following:

1. my previous emails to h&s concerning this helmet did not make it to your attention. 2. if they had you would have certainly acted in the same professional, prompt manner as now. 3. huggins & scott genuinely cares about their customers, the health of the hobby and the items they represent.

on another positive note, it appears that hunt auctions has also removed the other helmet i mentioned in this thread - the michigan helmet they had listed as an authentic gamer.

not a bad monday for collectors and their bank accounts.

...