Am I screwed?

[TNTtoys]

Re: Am I screwed?

To beat a dead horse...

The insurance is to cover the seller's ass. If the item disappears (no delivery) or shows up broken (item not as advertised), I'm pretty sure the buyer won't have much problem getting their refund from Paypal. I'm pretty sure the seller (shipper) files the insurance claim, so it's basically their responsibility until it's safely into the hands of the buyer.

Greg,

You're not beating a dead horse. I don't think some people get it.

Suppose I am the seller.

SCENARIO 1: I offer the buyer insurance in case the package is lost. The buyer accepts. I collect the extra money and insure the package with that money. Post office loses the package. I wait 30 days, put in a claim with the post office. I receive the money from them. I reimburse the buyer.

SCENARIO 2: I offer the buyer insurance in case the package is lost. The buyer declines. Post office loses the package. Buyer then insists that I reimburse him for the loss.
How is it my responsibility to reimburse the buyer if the post office loses it and the I have an email account of the buyer turning down the insurance I offered?

[otismalibu]

Re: Am I screwed?

If the buyer denies taking out insurance and the post office loses his package, why should the seller pay???

To beat a dead horse...

The insurance is to cover the seller's ass. If the item disappears (no delivery) or shows up broken (item not as advertised), I'm pretty sure the buyer won't have much problem getting their refund from Paypal. I'm pretty sure the seller (shipper) files the insurance claim, so it's basically their responsibility until it's safely into the hands of the buyer.

[TNTtoys]

Re: Am I screwed?

If you ask me, this type of resolution is extremely wrong. No offense bergerking, but the post office has documented that they accepted the package. They also show that it has not been delivered.
So, if you look at this from the seller's point of view, he:
1. is now out both the bat and the money
2. he has proof that the post office accepted his package
The only thing I think he could have done better is show some sort of concern that the item didn't show up...after all, feedback is on the line here.

I don't ever recall a case where paypal freely decided for one side when the facts point to the other. This may be a temporary solution pending a credit card claim. At that point, it can be reversed, and the buyer will be out the money for the bat AND fees that the credit card company hits paypal with.

I still see that the problem is with the post office having lost the package. If so, this would fall under the umbrella of the buyer having had a choice to accept or deny insurance. If a package is lost in the mail, shouldn't it come down to an insurance claim rather than one side losing the money without any contact with the post office? If the buyer denies taking out insurance and the post office loses his package, why should the seller pay???

[skipcarayislegend]

Re: Am I screwed?

Dont worry Skip, I didnt take it like that. To answer your questions, I just check again the confirmation # and it still is the same status as it was when I made the claim. It does not say delievered. If it did I probably would not have never claimed it because at that point it means someone stole it off my doorstep if it was delievered to my house which it was not, and to me that is def not fair to the seller if that happened, but in this case it never made it to the state of Maryland.

Also yes my address is confirmed.

I agree with you on how it could be a scammers paradise if people really wanted to be that way. I would hope not, but it is bound to happen.

I am glad I got my money back but if for some reason the bat does actually eventually show up (which I doubt at this point) I am going to be honest and pay the seller back most of what I won it for. I am def not paying for the shipping as the seller didnt actually go to post office to mail it he gave it to some office worker flunkey to mail out his personal mail. Also I am only going to pay what I see the same model bat of his just sold for which is 18 dollars cheaper than what I paid. Only because the seller didnt really seem to care that my bat never showed up and basically his response was "tough not my problem now." So he will get $22.50 from me if it actually does show up. I dont think it will though.

Sounds to me like you and the seller are in equally bad positions. The post office screwed up and the seller is now paying for it. Unfortunately, someone has to.

What was the bat, btw? Can you post ebay pics of it still? We can at least keep an eye out for it in case it shows up.

On a related topic, like Bulbus alluded to, g/u bat collections belonging to USPS/FedEx/UPS employees appear to growing at a alarming pace, and at the expense of others.

[BergerKing22784]

Re: Am I screwed?

Dont worry Skip, I didnt take it like that. To answer your questions, I just check again the confirmation # and it still is the same status as it was when I made the claim. It does not say delievered. If it did I probably would not have never claimed it because at that point it means someone stole it off my doorstep if it was delievered to my house which it was not, and to me that is def not fair to the seller if that happened, but in this case it never made it to the state of Maryland.

Also yes my address is confirmed.

I agree with you on how it could be a scammers paradise if people really wanted to be that way. I would hope not, but it is bound to happen.

I am glad I got my money back but if for some reason the bat does actually eventually show up (which I doubt at this point) I am going to be honest and pay the seller back most of what I won it for. I am def not paying for the shipping as the seller didnt actually go to post office to mail it he gave it to some office worker flunkey to mail out his personal mail. Also I am only going to pay what I see the same model bat of his just sold for which is 18 dollars cheaper than what I paid. Only because the seller didnt really seem to care that my bat never showed up and basically his response was "tough not my problem now." So he will get $22.50 from me if it actually does show up. I dont think it will though.

[BULBUS]

Re: Am I screwed?

Just an update on the situation... I recieved good news via email today. Pay Pal sided with me in my dispute and I recieved my money back from the auction. I am happy to have my money back and not be screwed out of both a bat and money so at least I got my money back.

As a seller this scares me. In this case, the seller did everything right. He or she offered insurance which was declined, shipped the item in a timely manner, and purchased USPS delivery confirmation. Now the seller sold a bat and didnt get paid for it.

I always offer insurance, which is almost always declined. I would make it mandatory, but then people complain that the shipping is too expensive. As a buyer, depending on the price, I usually purchase the insurance. Lately it seems like too many bat are lost/ stolen during transit.

[skipcarayislegend]

Re: Am I screwed?

Just an update on the situation... I recieved good news via email today. Pay Pal sided with me in my dispute and I recieved my money back from the auction. I am happy to have my money back and not be screwed out of both a bat and money so at least I got my money back.

I'm glad it worked out for you, but I'm curious if the item ever showed up as "delivered" on the USPS confirmation page? Also, is your paypal address confirmed?

If the bat was delivered to a confirmed address, than as an occasional seller, that worries me. Last week I called and spoke with a paypal rep about seller/buyer protection. According to this person, if the item is valued at (i.e., sold for) $200 (or maybe it was $250) and was shipped with standard confirmation to a confirmed address, paypal will side with the seller. If the value exceeds $200/250, paypal will most likely side with the buyer, unless perhaps the seller used signature confirm. Paypal recommends sig. conf. and insurance on $200+ items.

Here's the bigger problem. I told the Paypal guy that, theoretically, all a buyer has to do is say "I received a box, but it was empty," and paypal will side with them. He said "yes, basically." This is a scammer's paradise as I see it.

BTW, I'm not calling you a thief, BergerKing22784, or insinuating that you're in the wrong here on anything. I'm just pointing out that the majority of these "protection" policies seem to weigh heavily in favor of the buyers.

[BergerKing22784]

Re: Am I screwed?

Just an update on the situation... I recieved good news via email today. Pay Pal sided with me in my dispute and I recieved my money back from the auction. I am happy to have my money back and not be screwed out of both a bat and money so at least I got my money back.

[mattysdad]

Re: Am I screwed?

Hi Brian,

The short answer to your question is...NO, you are not screwed . Like it or not, eBay's rules clearly state thar the SELLER is responsible for timely delivery of the item in the condition stated regardless of any disclaimers the seller may write into their individual auction descriptions.

Since you used Pay Pal to pay for the item, you are covered under Pay Pal's "Buyer Protection" program...just log onto Pay Pal, search under "Buyer Protection", and you'll find all of the details. Similarly, sellers who accept Pay Pal payments are covered under Pay Pal's "Seller Protection" program (it's one of the benefits you get as a seller in exchange for those hideous fees ). To qualify for seller protection, a seller must meet the following conditions:

• Seller has a Verified Business or Premier account
• Item is shipped to an eligible address
• Item is a tangible good
• Proof of Delivery – To file a claim under the Seller Protection Policy, we’ll need a copy of the shipment record. Always retain proof that the item was delivered to the address on the Transaction Details page. Acceptable proof of delivery varies by country.
• Signature receipt for valuable items – For items with a value of $250.00 USD or more, in addition to proof of delivery, you must provide proof of signature from the recipient. This proves that the item was delivered to the buyer.
• Item sent in a timely manner – To be covered, the item must be shipped within 7 days of receiving payment.

Please note that the seller must provide Proof of Delivery...not simply proof that the item was shipped. Again, this is consistent with eBay's policy that the seller is responsible to get the item to you in the condition stated in the listing, regardless of any disclaimers.

Mark pointed out in an earlier post that a wise seller includes the cost of insurance in the shipping charge; if the item is lost / damaged, Pay Pal will refund $$$ to the buyer under it's Buyer Protection Program, and the seller recovers his $$$ by filing an insurance claim with the shipper.

As someone wrote in an earlier post, insurance is for the SELLER, not for the buyer. I always pay with a credit card via Pay Pal and never purchase optional insurance.

As for your situation, I'd wait at least 2 weeks for the item to arrive. If it doesn't arrive by then, log onto Pay Pal and file a dispute. Pay Pal will ask the seller to provide electronic proof of delivery; if he can't, you'll win your dispute.

For everyone else out there who accepts Pay Pal payments, I recommend that you log on to Pay Pal and educate yourself regarding their Buyer Protection and Seller Protection programs. One of the things you'll learn is that eBay and Pay Pal's Terms of Service ALWAYS trump any disclaimers you put into your auction descriptions. If you accept Pay Pal, you should always include insurance & DC in the S/H price.

I'd also recommend reading some of eBay's community bulletin boards - you'll find other stories just like this one.

I sold for many years on eBay, accepted Pay Pal, and was never aware of my eBay and Pay Pal seller responsibilities. Luckily I never had any problems. Thanks to the community bulletin boards I've actually taken the time to read the Terms of Service, and always protect myself by requiring insurance for any item I "can't afford to lose" as a seller.

I hope this helps. I'll keep my fingers crossed that your item arrives safely so that no one loses on this deal.

Jim Fisher
Always looking for jerseys from Philly-area teams and 70s-80s-90s MLB/MILB jerseys

[intheminors]

Re: Am I screwed?

I'm now in a similar situation. I accepted and Buy It Now offer for my El Paso Diablos jersey, worn by Lyle Overbay. It took the guy a week to pay via PayPal. Once I received funds, I transfered them to my bank and shipped the jersey.

I got an e-mail yesterday from PayPal that they were looking into the transaction. As soon as I verified that it was from PayPal, I called the UPS Store that I shipped the jersey from and asked them to stop the shipment. They did and the jersey is on it's way back to me.

I have provided PayPal the tracking number but my PayPal account balance is -$300.00+. So, now I have to wait for the money to be put back in before I can buy anything via PayPal.

I also called PayPal and talked with one of their reps. They were extremely helpful, letting me know that the problem was not on my end, it was on the buyer's end. They also said that cancelling the shipment was a good idea. I will, however, probably be out the shipping fees again for the jersey.

It's good to know from PayPal that I am in the right on this one but it sucks having a negative balance. If I find something I want to buy, I not only have to pay that price but I have to replinish the account as well until this is settled.

Kyle

[TNTtoys]

Re: Am I screwed?

Well the reason why I am wondering where the money would be coming from is because lets say my credit card company is like ok he got screwed here is your money back. Well thats nice and I apperciate it but the credit card company is going to try and recoupe its money in some way, maybe not from me but from someone. Meaning someones interest rate will be higher or they will cut cost in some other way to make up for all those claims people make where they lose money. I dont think someone else should suffer for my misfortune.

Same reason products cost what the do because everytime someone steals something they build those cost into the products final cost brought onto the seller. If people did not steal we would see lower cost for all, but those few bad apples ruin it for everyone else.


I am not calling myself a bad apple in anway cause I am the one who is out a bat and $52 bucks but I would just want to know who is going to be paying for this, paypal or my credit card company.

Hi,

Here it is in a nutshell. If you make a claim with your credit card company, they will open a dispute with paypal. They (the credit card company) takes the money from paypal. Paypal then freezes that amount of money from the seller's account (or drops the seller's account to a negative balance) because they too don't want to be out the money. The seller then makes his case to reverse the decision within paypal. If the case is good enough, paypal fights for the money back on his behalf.
The credit card company then tells you that you're off the hook for the funds, but by law does not need to come to a final conclusion for 90 days. At that point, if paypal/seller produce a good enough case, your credit card company is deemed liable and will place the charge back on your credit card. Paypal will then fine you for any fees they have incurred by the process.
Basically, if you don't have a strong case, opening a claim with the credit card company will cause your seller grief and will result in you owing the bat money plus fees in the end.

I think your best route is to open a claim with the post office. Their records state that they have accepted the package but not delivered it.

[BergerKing22784]

Re: Am I screwed?

Well the reason why I am wondering where the money would be coming from is because lets say my credit card company is like ok he got screwed here is your money back. Well thats nice and I apperciate it but the credit card company is going to try and recoupe its money in some way, maybe not from me but from someone. Meaning someones interest rate will be higher or they will cut cost in some other way to make up for all those claims people make where they lose money. I dont think someone else should suffer for my misfortune.

Same reason products cost what the do because everytime someone steals something they build those cost into the products final cost brought onto the seller. If people did not steal we would see lower cost for all, but those few bad apples ruin it for everyone else.


I am not calling myself a bad apple in anway cause I am the one who is out a bat and $52 bucks but I would just want to know who is going to be paying for this, paypal or my credit card company.

[kneerat]

Re: Am I screwed?

I still think you may receive the package, If the person used Priority mail especially. About one out of 20 packages I ship using Priority mail gets misdirected. This happened the most when I lived on the West Coast.

Sit tight. At least your deliv. tracking didn't say that it was already delivered to you and you didn't receive it, like my situation. I can't do much of anything in my situation. My hands are tied. You still have a chance.

[bigtime59]

Re: Am I screwed?

When I'm selling, insurance is rarely optional. I'd estimate that on over 90% of what I sell, I include insurance in my shipping costs. Just saves headaches that way.

[MRMusial]

Re: Am I screwed?

When I was an eBay newb, I used to buy insurance. Then the package would arrive with no proof of insurance. Now I never buy it.

I've had that happen often too so, like you, I stopped buying it since it appeared the sellers weren't purchasing it anyway...

Luckily, I didn't have anything broken or lost.