Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

[trsent]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

"My attorney believed from day one that OJ was innocent"

Joel, time for a new attorney!

By the way, my attorney is a genius, he may be right - A jury of your peers found the man "not guilty".

(I love using that terminology, it always gets under the skin of anyone who believes OJ is guilty.)

[martindl]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

How can you folks make lists?

Who on those lists can you know for sure are guilty.

It sort of reminds me of a Jr. Senator from Wisconsin who once labeled many members of the public as members of the communist party.

Sorry folks, you should be ASHAMED of yourselves.

I don't understand why should people be ashamed of themselves? As collectors we've all got our reasons for why we will or will not collect a certain player. I don't know where theres a rule that states that i'm wrong for collecting someone who has been found guilty of something any more than theres a rule that says i'm right for collecting someone who has never been found guilty of anything. I've got my own criteria for deciding who is on my list - thats why this is America. My standards might not be your standards, but if they are different I'm now supposed to be ashamed. Not.

BTW - I won't collect anything from Chipper Jones. Why? Because he was a total ass to my kid years ago. On the other hand Greg Vaughn went out of his way to accomodatemy son, and he's been a collecting favorite ever since. See, thats me using my criteria for who i will and will not collect.

[Fraudfinder!!]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

On this forum we are going to blacklist players based on allegations only and compare possible innocence of Barry Bonds to possible innocence of Adolph Hitler? That is insane.

My point exactly!! You just don't get my point Joel. Of Course Hilter is not innocent! Neither is Barry Bonds! There I said it...My point is you do not need some jury to say "GUILTY" to have a opinion on someone! Again I am sorry if I offended you, I meant no harm.

Good look on your move to Chicago, it is a great city.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

What bothers me is Barry Bonds is most-likely guilty of abusing drugs, but I don't believe any punishment is due - MLB blew it when they could have prevented what is now history by ignoring the issue for so long.

Then again, maybe he just worked out more than usual? Even that guy who just got out of jail said the book is full of lies. Time will tell, I guess.

By the way, I previously lived in Chicago for 30 years before the last seven here in Las Vegas. As a well respected member of the forum asked, are you moving because of the family, and I replied, "I am leaving the family to be with my family."

[bigtime59]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

This was never an issue for me, as I couldn't afford these guys before the allegations, and doubt their stuff will come down enough for me after them.
Hitler, while mostly irrelevant to this conversation, brings up an interesting point about juries: while you couldn't get a jury that wouldn't convict him in most of the world, there are countries where you couldn't get a jury that would...
The world can be one effed up place...

[Nathan]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

"Adolph" Hitler is only used two places. One is the Americanized German (the same sort of lingual bastardization that brought us "Joseph" Stalin) and the other is in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade", where Hitler also wrote with the wrong hand. Oh well.

Interesting that George Wallace was also brought up; he did, after all, receive the NAACP nod in 1958 and later in his career appointed more black nominees than any other governor. Jesse Jackson even cast a vote for him in 1988. With the exception of one speech (which he admittedly never read before actually giving it) and various symbolic acts that were misconstrued in their context, there's no evidence to suggest that Wallace was a racist man. But I digress...

Looking over this topic, I still wonder how much of an effect steroids would have an the idea of a "collectors' blacklist". There certainly are players who have been blacklisted to a certain extent one way or another, but I can't think of any that would be steroid-based. I don't know many Red Sox fans who would want to have Roger Clemens' stuff in their closet or Eagles fans who seek out Terrell Owens gear. A mental blacklist will always be there for fans for a variety of reasons, but I doubt that accusations of steroid use would dramatically skew things one way or another.

[David-A]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

I wonder what is going to be discovered about Shilling and Clemens? I am still hopefull that big boned players such as Shilling, Clemens, Pujols, Rolen, Ortiz, Manny, etc have all been lifelong steroid free. It seems like this is going to be a very serious investigation and I just hope that many great bigger players such as the 6 I named above, etc never went that route and never go that route. Especially because I collect some of their high $$ items. It seems that collectors are showing with their pockets that they will shell out way less $$ for the players items who likely have used steroids. Does anybody have any thoughts about the players I mentioned. I seems like people are being presumed guilty but a lot of guys are not being mentioned. I assume this is because there are no suspicions whatsoever?

***NOTE FROM MODERATOR- This User Is Currently Banned Forever Under Multiple Accounts For Consistently Breaking The Rules Of The Forum. User Received Many Warnings But Did Not Change Behavior. He Registered Today Under This New Account And Has Again Been Banned***

[jboosted92]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

Cant we all AGREE to DISAGREE

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

Other drugs: weed, coke, alcohol, etc... degrade, not enhance your performance.

Dock Ellis may disagree, since he pitched a no-hitter while under the influence of LSD. Should we put an asterisk in the record books?

http://www.sirbacon.org/4membersonly/docellis.htm

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

With the exception of one speech (which he admittedly never read before actually giving it) and various symbolic acts that were misconstrued in their context, there's no evidence to suggest that Wallace was a racist man.

Why would you defend George Wallace? He set the American South back about 50 years. He was a small-minded idiot. I hope he is rotting in Hell. I also wish pain and suffering to any of his surviving family members.

[Yankwood]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

Why would you defend George Wallace? He set the American South back about 50 years. He was a small-minded idiot. I hope he is rotting in Hell. I also wish pain and suffering to any of his surviving family members.

George Wallace the comedian? Why do you hate him so much?

[Nathan]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

BTPH,

That's a little excessive there. I hardly think that wishing pain and suffering on surviving family is a noble attitude; that's like the lovely folks who refer to (or address) soldiers as "babykillers".

Second, gross distortion of the historical record isn't something that will happen with any regularity as long as I'm around. I presented a few facts, namely that Jesse Jackson did in fact vote for Wallace, the NAACP endorsed him, and that there is no tangible evidence (outside of two incidents that I named) to suggest that Wallace was a racist. Compare that to a former President (Harry Truman) who was a Klansman, as well as a current longtime senator (Robert Byrd); I'm not going to continue on that further since the gentleman in question is a standing senator and I have no interest in turning this into a thread about current events.

Ooh, hang on, they're showing a Ryan Leaf meltdown on TV. As long as we're discussing collector blacklists, where does he fall in even though he (most likely) never used steroids?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

Nathan
You're right. My comments were excessive. I am very emotional about the subject.


Did you guys read the link I posted about Dock Ellis' No-hitter?

http://www.sirbacon.org/4membersonly/docellis.htm

It is more on the topic of performance enhancing drugs...

[dranimal]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

What a great thread. I enjoy all of it which minds us we need conservative and liberal to balance us out. Something can indeed be garnered from both. Also the ability posters have shown to apologize for some comments and making certain one's remarks aren't meant to offend is soooooo refreshing. I've been on board here now my second day and you guys are a balanced, interactive, bright crowd. i will refer many of my baseball sick friends here. Thanks. Jeff
P.S. Editor I admire your sense of what's good for the members to allow this passionate discussion where some might take the lower road and decide for themselves what members enjoy or need to discuss. Kudos.

[Yankwood]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

What a great thread. I enjoy all of it which minds us we need conservative and liberal to balance us out. Something can indeed be garnered from both. Also the ability posters have shown to apologize for some comments and making certain one's remarks aren't meant to offend is soooooo refreshing. I've been on board here now my second day and you guys are a balanced, interactive, bright crowd. i will refer many of my baseball sick friends here. Thanks. Jeff
P.S. Editor I admire your sense of what's good for the members to allow this passionate discussion where some might take the lower road and decide for themselves what members enjoy or need to discuss. Kudos.

OH YEAH? F--- You! ! !