Are baseball salaries too high?

[cjclong]

Re: Are baseball salaries too high?

When I started this I said that we live in a capitalistic society and that certain people with unusual skills that are in demand will earn more than the average person. Most of us accept that. Obviously there are more people that can be doctors in society than Hall of Fame hitters. (Although we need doctors more than athletes. There are not many countries that do well without doctors while there are plenty without 3rd basemen.) My big complaint is the EXCESS of salaries. Its a valid point that society and the game have both changed. But I think one of the changes that hurt sports was the overpaying of players. I'm sure there have always been people who complained about athletes salaries (Someone asked Babe Ruth when he made $80,000 if he thought it was right that he made as much as the President of the United States and Ruth said, "I had a better year." If the President was Hoover he was probably right.) But I don't think most fans begrudged Ruth or Mantle their salaries because they were not totally out of line with what other people, like firemen or policemen or teachers made. Now they are. Andrew Jones had one of the worst seasons in baseball history and no one expects he will give any of the millions he was paid back. Players who are not producing are making more in a year than most people will make in their lives. It is totally out of proportion It was asked who cares if a player makes $30 million. When the salaries get totally out of whack, and remember we pay them, then fans resent it and I think fewer will come, especially if the economy stays bad. Would it be good if the salaries were lower and the owners kept the money? Of course not, but that is not the only alternative. There is no reason that ticket prices could not be cut somewhat, and if the public demanded it that is what would happen. Even if a team continued to make money no one wants to play in a 50,000 seat stadium with 5,000 fans. I'm not one who hates players because of their salaries. I like Jeter and Teixeira and Rivera and I'm even ok with ARod. But I do think their salaries are too high And if the excessive salaries are beginning to get to me, and I don't think I am the only one. And I think at some point, if it continues it will hurt the sport.

[jppopma]

Re: Are baseball salaries too high?

Economics being economics....do the owners seem to have any care of the whole business crashing? There has to be a point at which people will have enough. However, less people go, they raise prices, and keep their profit level (all while whining and crying nonstop). It's just a shame that they will continue to milk anything they can from the fans.

Personally I am a fan of the game, not the business or anything else. Maybe that's why I actually prefer to go to minor league games with my son where he can have more interaction with the players and we can stretch our money further. This year, I may even try to take him to some Michigan baseball games or even high school.

That's just me..I can't answer for the people I see at games with season tickets looking like their kids may go hungry to afford them.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Are baseball salaries too high?

bert:
i understand and appreciate that an integral part of american culture is increasingly withheld from the masses. i do think this is unfortunate. i was simply pointing out that player salaries aren't out of line when seen in the context of total team revenue and player salaries aren't responsible for ticket price increases. demand drives ticket prices and ticket prices in turn drive player salaries. not the reverse. in 2003, arte moreno increased the angels team payroll and yet decreased ticket prices. the angels have one of the highest payrolls in the major leagues yet their ticket prices are in the middle of the pack.

i think owners are in part able to increase ticket prices because urban populations are increasing while stadium sizes are staying constant, thus making it substantially easier to fill stadiums. the old yankee stadium held 57,545 and was built in 1923 when the population of nyc was 5.6mm. today the population of nyc is 8.3mm and the capacity of the new yankee stadium is 52,325. for those that say there'll be a lot of empty seats in the new yankee stadium, i'd like you to think about how effortless it is to fill 52k seats in a city of almost 9 million. all they have to do is get 0.05% of the city to come. should be quite a challenge, especially in such an impoverished place like nyc.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Are baseball salaries too high?

cjclong:
your baseline for determining "excess" and "overpayment" is to compare it to the average joe and historical baseball salaries. i don't understand the validity of any of that. there's more money available today than there was 60 yrs ago. by your logic, michael jordan making $100mm in 1 year from nike alone would be "excessive" and "out of proportion". but what of the fact that nike made $800mm from the "air jordan" brand? the pie is so massive that any slice is going to be deemed "excessive". in fact, the amount paid to jordan would be very much in proportion to the amount he generated. but you're not looking at the big pie. you're just looking at the fact that jordan made $100mm and johnny fireman made $60k and back in the day george mikan didn't make that much more than the local fireman even though in george mikan's day there were no tv contracts. again, if you generated $800mm/yr, how much should you be entitled to? i'd really like to hear your answer. (remember, if you say anything above $10mm it's excessive. of course, $10mm is only 1% but you don't look at percentages that truly show what's proportionate. you simply look at what other folks are making and $10mm is more than most so therefore it's excessive.) like i said, the money, supplied by the fans, is there. someone has to get it. your alternative for this money:

"There is no reason that ticket prices could not be cut somewhat, and if the public demanded it that is what would happen."

there's no financial reason to cut them if a team is enjoying healthy attendance figures. the public is going to demand it? what public is this? apparently not the public that's actually filling the stadiums up. the public that can't afford to go to games? they'll demand it and teams that are financially healthy will do it? wow. i need to go picket outside my local porsche dealership. i can't wait to drive home in a carrera GT for $30k! i won't hold my breath though. the only way prices will go down is if demand goes down, which you imply will happen:

"Even if a team continued to make money no one wants to play in a 50,000 seat stadium with 5,000 fans."

how would a team continue operate profitably by attracting 5000 fans to a 50,000 seat stadium? if demand truly goes down, then obviously prices will go down. however, contrary to what you're saying, prices aren't causing demand to go down. from an '07 MLB article:

"Major League Baseball remains on pace for a fourth consecutive year of record-breaking attendance. Through Saturday's games, 49,999,879 fans had attended games this season at an average of 32,258 fans per game. Attendance through Saturday's games is running 4.4 percent ahead of the total through the same date last season."

from an '08 article:

"The 2008 Major League Baseball regular season is the second highest attendance mark in history, drawing 78,624,324, falling just 1.14 percent below last year’s record of 79,502,524 in paid attendance, a sign that baseball’s popularity remains exceptionally strong."

fenway park has the highest average ticket price (over $48) in the entire major leagues and yet sets attendance records every season. conversely, oakland has an average price of $29 and yet is 27th in attendance.

rudy.

[frikativ54]

Re: Are baseball salaries too high?

Maybe I am the only one who feels this way, but I think that athletes have a right to make as much money as they can possibly get. People like to talk about doctors, teachers, and firemen, but when it comes down to it, athletes mean more in the sports fan's lives than do these people. Who thinks about their second grade teacher any more or the doctor who took out their wisdom teeth? What we think about is the guys on the diamond, and as fans, their success is intimately tied to our own self-concept. The same cannot be said for firemen. And as long as we continue to enjoy the fruits of these athletes' talents, I think it only fair to compensate them for their hours of work and training. Plus, the money is worth it for the lack of privacy that these guys have. How would you like it if you couldn't even have a beer at the local bar without 20 people coming up to you and hounding you for an autograph? These people deserve every penny of what they make, and many give back to the community and their skills help keep the economy running.

[kellsox]

Re: Are baseball salaries too high?

Maybe I am the only one who feels this way, but I think that athletes have a right to make as much money as they can possibly get. People like to talk about doctors, teachers, and firemen, but when it comes down to it, athletes mean more in the sports fan's lives than do these people. Who thinks about their second grade teacher any more or the doctor who took out their wisdom teeth? What we think about is the guys on the diamond, and as fans, their success is intimately tied to our own self-concept. The same cannot be said for firemen. And as long as we continue to enjoy the fruits of these athletes' talents, I think it only fair to compensate them for their hours of work and training. Plus, the money is worth it for the lack of privacy that these guys have. How would you like it if you couldn't even have a beer at the local bar without 20 people coming up to you and hounding you for an autograph? These people deserve every penny of what they make, and many give back to the community and their skills help keep the economy running.

Yeah, I'm sure the cancer(or fill in any other serious illness) survivor never thinks of the doctors that treated them. Same can probably be said of the student who had a teacher that helped him/her get into college or help them work out their problems. Baseball is entertainment and players are compensated accordingly. What was said about the other professions in the above post is extremely shortsighted.
Kelly

[mariner_gamers]

Re: Are baseball salaries too high?

cjclong:
your baseline for determining "excess" and "overpayment" is to compare it to the average joe and historical baseball salaries. i don't understand the validity of any of that. there's more money available today than there was 60 yrs ago. by your logic, michael jordan making $100mm in 1 year from nike alone would be "excessive" and "out of proportion". but what of the fact that nike made $800mm from the "air jordan" brand? the pie is so massive that any slice is going to be deemed "excessive". in fact, the amount paid to jordan would be very much in proportion to the amount he generated. but you're not looking at the big pie. you're just looking at the fact that jordan made $100mm and johnny fireman made $60k and back in the day george mikan didn't make that much more than the local fireman even though in george mikan's day there were no tv contracts. again, if you generated $800mm/yr, how much should you be entitled to? i'd really like to hear your answer. (remember, if you say anything above $10mm it's excessive. of course, $10mm is only 1% but you don't look at percentages that truly show what's proportionate. you simply look at what other folks are making and $10mm is more than most so therefore it's excessive.) like i said, the money, supplied by the fans, is there. someone has to get it. your alternative for this money:

"There is no reason that ticket prices could not be cut somewhat, and if the public demanded it that is what would happen."

there's no financial reason to cut them if a team is enjoying healthy attendance figures. the public is going to demand it? what public is this? apparently not the public that's actually filling the stadiums up. the public that can't afford to go to games? they'll demand it and teams that are financially healthy will do it? wow. i need to go picket outside my local porsche dealership. i can't wait to drive home in a carrera GT for $30k! i won't hold my breath though. the only way prices will go down is if demand goes down, which you imply will happen:

"Even if a team continued to make money no one wants to play in a 50,000 seat stadium with 5,000 fans."

how would a team continue operate profitably by attracting 5000 fans to a 50,000 seat stadium? if demand truly goes down, then obviously prices will go down. however, contrary to what you're saying, prices aren't causing demand to go down. from an '07 MLB article:

"Major League Baseball remains on pace for a fourth consecutive year of record-breaking attendance. Through Saturday's games, 49,999,879 fans had attended games this season at an average of 32,258 fans per game. Attendance through Saturday's games is running 4.4 percent ahead of the total through the same date last season."

from an '08 article:

"The 2008 Major League Baseball regular season is the second highest attendance mark in history, drawing 78,624,324, falling just 1.14 percent below last year’s record of 79,502,524 in paid attendance, a sign that baseball’s popularity remains exceptionally strong."

fenway park has the highest average ticket price (over $48) in the entire major leagues and yet sets attendance records every season. conversely, oakland has an average price of $29 and yet is 27th in attendance.

rudy.

Damn, how do you type so fast!!! I concur with every point and have one small one to add. I travel quite a bit and been to many ballparks. It always seems the $5-$20 seats are the empty ones and the most expensive are packed. Most all seats in today's parks offer a great view. How much lower would folks like to see tickets get??? Perhaps I need to start a thread on how you can see baseball games cheap?

[frikativ54]

Re: Are baseball salaries too high?

Yeah, I'm sure the cancer(or fill in any other serious illness) survivor never thinks of the doctors that treated them. Same can probably be said of the student who had a teacher that helped him/her get into college or help them work out their problems. Baseball is entertainment and players are compensated accordingly. What was said about the other professions in the above post is extremely shortsighted.
Kelly

I have medical problems, and of course, I thank the doctors who have been helpful in my life. And I owe nice teachers - though few and far between - a debt that I can never repay. But that doesn't mean they deserve more money than a professional athlete. I would hate to live in a world where doctors made more money than athletes. How many doctors would be in it just for the money and not for the love of helping patients? But I still don't think that doctors can provide as much joy in patients' lives than athletes do for the common human being. That's why they are paid the big bucks. While a doctor might bring joy to those of us with serious medical problems, the sick are a minority in society. Most people are healthy. And for those of us who aren't healthy, I can testify that athletes have brought more joy into my life than most doctors have.

[godwulf]

Re: Are baseball salaries too high?

A Baseball player who has to keep himself at least somewhat in shape year-round, over many years, train, practice, and then play in 150 or more games over the course of the season, and spend close to half that time on the road, away from family and home, doing what only an elite few in the entire world are even capable of doing at his level, makes 15 to 20 million dollars, and people get snarky about it.

A top, A-list actor gets the same money for performing in front of a camera for two to three months, making a movie in ten minute increments, with plenty of breaks for snacks and cocktails, and everybody thinks it's great.