Baseball Cheaters (Past & Present)

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Baseball Cheaters (Past & Present)

Cheating is cheating.


Phil Niekro (just one example) is no better than A-Rod. Nor is he any worse.

I couldn't disagree more.

I simply can't understand how ANYONE can feel this way, about the use of steroids and the such.

Well....there is one explanation.

You guys just don't know how much of an advantage they truly give you.

Look......steroids and other PED's turn an average player with mediocre ability into a lightning quick, super strong cartoon character superhero with reflexes and fire-power to leap small buildings in a single bound.

Players that have NOTHING more than warning track power are now popping the same balls hit on steroids 1o rows deep into the seats. Their batting average, RBI, power numbers......ALL go up SUBSTANTIALLY, as they ruin the record books.

FIGURE it out, people. Just please....THINK about it. Do any of you really believe that "doctoring a baseball" with saliva, or a small emory board, is going to make THAT much of a difference in a guy's career???

But having faster muscle-twitch reactive time, super strength, and elastic muscles equipped with incredible rebuilding capabilities.......essentially eliminating having a "bad day" (like from a hangover, or just being tired from an extra inning game the day before)....... C'MON people!!?? THINK about the advantages steroids give a baseball player.

And if that doesn't convince you, go watch a replay of the entire 1998 baseball season.

Re: Baseball Cheaters (Past & Present)

Gaylord Perry is a Hall of Famer and multiple Cy Young Award winner... yet he is notorious for doctoring baseballs. Apparently cheating is a subjective topic with many varying degrees to it...

Very true. Something I am looking up now.

I found this so far....as far as cheaters in the HOF go....and why, based on their numbers, Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, A-Rod and company SHOULD be in the HOF one day.



Whitey Ford (pitcher, Yankees, 1950-67)
Whitey Ford got help from mud, gunk and catchers. Ford used his wedding ring to cut the ball, or had catcher Elston Howard put a nice slice in it with a buckle on his shin guard. Ford also planted mud pies around the mound and used them to load the ball. He confessed that when pitching against the Dodgers in the 1963 World Series, "I used enough mud to build a dam." He also threw a "gunk ball," which combined a mixture of baby oil, turpentine, and resin.



















Gaylord Perry (pitcher, Giants, Indians, Rangers, Padres, Yankees, Braves, Mariners, Royals, 1962-1983)
Perry, a Hall-of-Famer, compiled his 314-265 record on the wings of a Vaseline ball. He'd stand on the mound, touching his cap or his sleeve, either loading up the ball or trying to convince batters he was doing so. In 1982, he became one of the very few pitchers to be suspended for doctoring the ball. Gene Tenace, who was Perry's catcher with the Padres, said the ball was sometimes so loaded he couldn't throw it back to the mound. Indians president Gabe Paul defended Perry: "Gaylord is a very honorable man," he said. "He only calls for the spitter when he needs it."












John McGraw (3B, SS, OF, Orioles, Cardinals, Giants, 1891-1906)
In the field, wrote Geoffrey C. Ward and Ken Burns in "Baseball: An Illustrated History," the 155-pound McGraw "held far bigger base runners back by the belt, blocked them, tripped them, spiked them -- and rarely complained when they did the same to him." He was known to grab onto runners belts as they were rounding third, and grab the belt loops of runners tagging up at third. "He uses every low and contemptible method that his erratic brain can conceive to win a play by a dirty trick," wrote one reporter.





There was Phil Niekro as already mentioned....and SO many more.


It's far too late to start keeping guys out of the HOF for cheating.

[godwulf]

Re: Baseball Cheaters (Past & Present)

I heard somebody on the radio this morning talking about Babe Ruth...how his famous fondness for beer might have caused him to be "more relaxed at the plate", giving him an unfair hitting advantage over the guys who chose to play sober.

Seriously, though, I think it's possible to take the "cheating" things to ridiculous extremes...for example, a fielder who blocks the umpire's view as he traps the ball, and then raises his glove as though he has caught it...he's essentially lying, isn't he? Isn't that cheating, too?

Some folks say (and they may be right) that the difference between all the sandpaper and petroleum jelly, etc, that pitchers have been known to use, and something like steroids, is that with the latter, you're actually altering your body chemistry and, eventually, physiological makeup - becoming something other and stronger than what you otherwise would have been. On the other hand, don't vitamins and dietary supplements do more or less the same thing?

Reading back over this post, I'm surprised that I sound as (almost) sympathetic to the steroid-users as I do, because I don't see my attitude as being that way, at all. I suspect that my distaste for their use, and their negative effect on Baseball's image and on the integrity of its records, may be more visceral than intellectual.

[TNTtoys]

Re: Baseball Cheaters (Past & Present)

Gaylord Perry is a Hall of Famer and multiple Cy Young Award winner... yet he is notorious for doctoring baseballs. Apparently cheating is a subjective topic with many varying degrees to it...

[3arod13]

Re: Baseball Cheaters (Past & Present)

Quite possibly why I am not affected by the whole "steroid era" as much as other fans. There have been cheaters in the game from the beginning. I don't see one as being any worse than the other. As much as I don't condone cheating, it is human nature. I don't immediately hate the player. I may dislike their choices, but I can still admire them as players..even if I despise the man.

Perfect example for me...Pete Rose.

Hell of a player. Poor excuse of a man. Just my opinion...and I am a HUGE Pete Rose fan.

Well said!

Re: Baseball Cheaters (Past & Present)

I agree! Shouldn't matter what you do in order to give you an edge over someone else.

Quite possibly why I am not affected by the whole "steroid era" as much as other fans. There have been cheaters in the game from the beginning. I don't see one as being any worse than the other. As much as I don't condone cheating, it is human nature. I don't immediately hate the player. I may dislike their choices, but I can still admire them as players..even if I despise the man.

Perfect example for me...Pete Rose.

Hell of a player. Poor excuse of a man. Just my opinion...and I am a HUGE Pete Rose fan.

[3arod13]

Re: Baseball Cheaters (Past & Present)

Cheating is cheating.


Phil Niekro (just one example) is no better than A-Rod. Nor is he any worse.

I agree! Shouldn't matter what you do in order to give you an edge over someone else.

Re: Baseball Cheaters (Past & Present)

Cheating is cheating.


Phil Niekro (just one example) is no better than A-Rod. Nor is he any worse.

[3arod13]

Baseball Cheaters (past & Present)

First, I want to make it clear that "cheating is cheating" and I do not condone it, no matter how minor it is.

I read a few posts where comments were made about how other players in the past did many things to give them an edge; used jelly, pine tar, nails, sandpaper, rings, etc. Some comments were made that those type things are part of the game and are ok.

Just curious what you all think.

Regards, Tony