Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

[Dewey2007]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

hey dewey

nah not really. it's still a killer shirt. IF alomar does have AIDS, then i think it's sad but it doesn't reflect on what he did in the 90s as a player. it's not like finding out he juiced it all those years. if he has AIDS, then i guess he just made some bad choices in his personal life and obviously he's bearing the full brunt of it. honestly, the enjoyment of the shirt hasn't diminished at all. obviously i'm a fan of alomars'. the shirt, from every aspect, is phenomenal. i guess i'm just a little perplexed at everyone wholeheartedly believing the lawsuit immediately upon reading it. i was just pointing out some of the oddities and reserving my final judgement. i'd do the same for any other player. if frank thomas or robin yount or whoever was hit with the same lawsuit, i'd be making the same posts.

anyway, it's not like magic's announcement in '91 diminished anything for his fans or even dinged the value of his items. magic made his announcement in '91 and you look at how active and involved he is today and it doesn't seem like HIV had any impact on him. as i said, if alomar has it, then hopefully he can live a long, productive life and enjoy his HOF enshrinement next year. the '92 and '93 jays and all of their accomplishments still stand untainted, regardless of whether alomar acquired AIDS after he retired or not. regarding his sexual orientation, i couldn't care less. straight, gay, bisexual, asexual, whatever. none of it pertains to his on-field performance or even his character. mickey mantle was still mickey mantle despite his life turning out less than ideal at the very end.

in fact, i just made an inquiry today towards getting more alomar items

rudy.

Rudy, that's great to hear that it hasn't taken any of the enjoyment out of the Alomar jersey. That's a sweet jersey you got there and your right nothing can take away what he did on the field regardless of what's going on now.

With that said let's put this thread to bed and good luck in getting more Alomar stuff for the collection!

Dewey

[kingjammy24]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

just read this on the nytimes today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/sports/baseball/12alomar.html?ref=sports

"As the case develops, it could highlight the issue of H.I.V. testing in baseball, which is sometimes a part of the annual physicals that all players have...H.I.V. testing has been a part of any insured contract in baseball for at least a decade."

rudy.

[emann]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

anyway, i agree with you in that if alomar has AIDS then so be it and it's very sad. the thing is, unlike many here, i'm not saying he has it or that he doesn't have it. suicide_squeeze has apparently already seen alomar's medical records and not only determined when he contracted HIV but also when it began manifesting into AIDS. many posters are chiming in saying "oh, very sad" as if it's it's already a fact. all i'm trying to point out, other than the oddities in the lawsuit, is that noone knows either way except for robbie. it's "extreme" for me to say that none of us knows whether robbie actually has AIDS or not?

if alomar does indeed have AIDS, if he knew it, and if he intentionally exposed his partner to it, then obviously it's very bad. at this point, noone knows if he has it, noone knows if he knew it, and noone knows if he intentionally exposed his partner to it. despite that lack of knowledge, there seem to many posters practically asking where to send their condolensces. yet i'm extreme? as for the hirschbeck vs alomar debate, obviously i believe alomar's side of the story over hirschbecks'. i'm not the only one.

rudy.

You are coming off quite strong in your posts... I agree with your thoughts basically on the lawsuit, it seems like this is a money grab. What shocked and saddened me is the possibility that Alomar has HIV. It's a pretty easy assumption to make that he probably does have it. Why? Because every single response from him or his family or lawyer doesn't deny that charge. Like I said at the beginning, if it was a libel case it probably would have been followed by "I don't have HIV and I'm going to sue her into oblivion", not "This is a difficult isssue and Alomar wants to keep his health status private".

It's none of our business either way- BUT as a fan, it's a sad possibility. I enjoyed watching Alomar play, considered myself a fan and he probably will be in the HOF at some point. I actually read a newspaper commentary that was calling for baseball writers to elect him on first ballot if he is indeed ill.

[sylbry]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

I have ignored this thread because I have grown tired of the off-topic, character threads that seem to flood the board as of recent. Enough with the Arod, steriod, Tejada, Alomar threads. Is this GUU or TMZ?

But since I am posting I will say I agree with Rudy 100%. The lawsuit is a joke. Someone realized her gravy train ended and now needs some cash.

What really annoys me the most is that she said Alomar put her kids in danger. As a parent it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to remove your child from a situation you perceive as dangerous. She failed to act. So either she 1) really didn't believe Alomar to be a danger since she stuck around with him for long after his alleged HIV positive test was revealed, 2) she believed he was a danger but he paid the bills so the risk was worth it or 3) she is an absolute, irresponsible moron for not removing her children immediately from a situation she believed to be dangerous. Any way you look at it, the lawsuit is frivolous.

[BaseballGM]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

I agree Roberto Alomar's health is his own business and no one else's unless he decides to share it. In today's world HIV is a reality. Just one poor decision can affect you for the rest of your life. Let's face it, being single in your 20's, living the life of a rock star with a bachelor pad and groupies (including at least one female stalker) must have been difficult to pass on the temptations that that particular lifestyle brings.
I just hope he is ok and can live his life the way he chooses without the whispered rumors from the ignorant people in our society.

[Mr.3000]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

I have ignored this thread because I have grown tired of the off-topic, character threads that seem to flood the board as of recent. Enough with the Arod, steriod, Tejada, Alomar threads. Is this GUU or TMZ?

Thank you. I for one would love to see things back on track, back to discussing game used items. All these "off topic" threads do is lead to bickering and arguing.

That's said, let's enjoy the hobby!

[BULBUS]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

I have ignored this thread because I have grown tired of the off-topic, character threads that seem to flood the board as of recent. Enough with the Arod, steriod, Tejada, Alomar threads. Is this GUU or TMZ?

Not a big fan of those type of threads either, but the topics do affect the game used market. Steroids or anything negative involved with a player affects the collectablilty and value of that players items.

-Chris

[encinorick]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

Not to belabor the point, but, as Chris says, this topic is relevant to the gameused industry. First, if anyone recalls (or cares) Rock Hudson's ex-boyfriend sued him and won a substantial amount of money for knowningly exposing him the the "threat" of HIV/AID's even though the ex never contracted the HIV/AID's.

Second, perhaps Alomar isn't gay, but contracted HIV/AID's by way of needles, which were very prevelant during this steriods eara. If that's the case, I bet everyone of those players on "the list" (or not) is getting an AID's test, including Barry Bonds, A-Rod, etc.

[sylbry]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

Not a big fan of those type of threads either, but the topics do affect the game used market. Steroids or anything negative involved with a player affects the collectablilty and value of that players items.

-Chris

Yes that it true but not once in this thread has a discussion been brought up on his this will affect the collectibility of Alomar's game used gear. Rather it has been just speculation into his personal life and/or past actions.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

Yes that it true but not once in this thread has a discussion been brought up on his this will affect the collectibility of Alomar's game used gear. Rather it has been just speculation into his personal life and/or past actions.

a good place to point the thread. to that end, here are my thoughts: i don't entirely agree with chris that "anything negative" affects value. baseball, and all professional sports, are filled with flawed legends whose items still fetch a hefty premium. i don't see mantle jerseys taking a hit because he was a drunk and an adulterer or magic johnson items going down because he has HIV. i think the litmus test for collectors is whether the issues pertain to on-field performance, HOF eligibility, and/or whether the issues are truly egregious such as child molestation or murder (eg oj simpson). when you look at the players whose items have really dropped in value (bonds, clemens, palmeiro, sosa) it's all a result of perceived on-field performance and HOF eligibility issues. bonds was always a surly jerk ever since his days in pittsburgh yet his items were highly valued and highly desireable right up to the point when the steroid rumors really began to gain credibility. he may not have had many fans but being a surly jerk and an adulterer didn't affect his prices much. back before all the steroid issues came to light, ripken and puckett were far more popular players than bonds yet bonds' items were more monetarily valuable. collectors seem to base most of their perception of monetary value purely on on-field performance and HOF chances.

as it pertains to alomar, obviously whether he has AIDS or not doesn't pertain in any way to his on-field performance or HOF eligibility. same for whether or not he's bisexual. none of these issues are going to result in an asterisk beside any of his accomplishments. the thing is, from the sounds of it, it's unlikely anyone will know the full truth behind this entire matter. the case will be tried and my personal feeling is that it'll be tossed. noone's going to get $15 million simply for being stressed out 3 years ago. that said, obviously it's not going to answer the question of whether alomar has AIDS or not and i imagine that information, one way or another, will be kept private. this is unprecedented territory for the most part in terms of seeing how a possible AIDS diagnosis would affect the value of a player's items and the closest comparable seems to be magic johnson's situation. came out with HIV in 1991, stated it was due to promiscuity, noone felt it had anything to do with his on-court performance or HOF eligibility, he was elected to the HOF in 2002 as he should've been and he seems to lead a pretty normal life to this day. his popularity, legacy, and value don't seem to have taken a hit.

rudy.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

you've completely lost the plot. do you understand what went down?

1) alomar struck out. he disagreed with the call. so far no problems.
2) hirschbeck unleashed a completely unacceptable slur. oh oh, problems.
3) alomar spat.

do you see how #2 came before #3? you seem to think alomar made the comment about hirschbeck's kid before hirschbeck slandered him. he didn't. alomar hadn't said a word about hirschbeck's kid until way after hirschbeck had already become abusive. before alomar even said a word about the kid, hirschbeck had already lost it. hirschbeck uttered a disgusting slur simply because alomar argued a call. so yes, hirschbeck got the least of it. secondly, you seem to think alomar taunted or made fun of the kid. he didn't. he simply said he thought hirschbeck was stressed out from his kid's medical situation. seems like a pretty obvious conclusion to me. anyway, i enjoyed your analysis of alomar's medical condition right down to when he contracted it and when it began manifesting itself. right up there with your analysis of the alomar/hirschbeck incident which you made without a clue as to what hirschbeck even said or how it all went down. excellent!

rudy.

rudy,

It is very likely I may have the facts completely wrong regarding the spitting incident. Sounds like Alomar didn't say that to his face. I was unaware of that, so thanks to all that have clarified that.

All I was saying was if Hirschbeck got "hissy" because a player was arguing a call, and he called him a nasty name loaded with adjectives, well, that happens sometimes in the heat of the moment. But that is where my understanding was misplaced. I know that Hirschbeck was the aggressor, and he said a no-no, but he obviously hit a nerve (maybe because of truth behind the comment (?), minus the adjectives of course, and I guess now from hearing from the other posts explaining the facts that the comment about his child happened at a later time. THAT is the part I was unaware of.

In any case, spitting in someone's face is nasty. However, reading the article about how they got together and made a positive out of the whole event is a feel-good human interest story.

I'm sure John feels pretty badly right now for Roberto. I know I do, it's sad.

Sorry if I upset you for my misunderstanding of the complete chain of events in that incident.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

agreed. she endured this immense emotional distress in feb 2006. so she doesn't file suit in 2006. doesn't file suit in 2007. doesn't file suit in 2008. oh dear, looks like 2009 hit, the economy tanked big time and someone needs money so they dig up something that occurred 3 years ago. only what actually occurred given that she tested negative? oh that's right..she was stressed out! 3 yrs ago! and now its time to collect $15 mill for terrible stress that she endured all the way back then. but hey maybe i'm being extreme and most people typically wait 3 years after a non-offense has occurred to sue.

if it turns out that robbie has AIDS then with the current advances in AIDS medicines, hopefully he can continue to live a long, productive life like magic johnson has. if it turns out he doesn't have AIDS, then i hope he countersues until she's left with just enough to spend the rest of her days in some gutter. until then, i'm not going to presume to know the full story.

rudy.

rudy,

With all due respect, you are intitled to your opinion. And it's obviously a very passionate one against Robbie's ex.

But you have to understand.....you're stepping on the line over a lot of complex issues here.

Relationships are very involved. I'm not sure, but I would bet you are not a licensed shink. Please consider some of the things you are arguing adamantly about here....

His girfeiens asked him for YEARS to be tested.....he keep refusing saying he wasn't sick. She stayed with him. Do you think maybe she LOVED him? Or in your mind, just NO way! It was always all about the fame and bucks?

When he did finally succumb to taking the test, she says he tested positive, needing a "spinal tap" which apparently was the determining factor in taking the test. There was mention of a wheelchair to get through an airport. I mean.....how does one "fabricate" all of this when there are obviously medical records and witnesses?

Why in the world would anyone file a suit saying "so-and-so, whom I've been having unprotected sex with for a few years, tested positive for HIV, which now has manafested into full blown AIDS" if there wasn't some truth to it? Are you kidding me??? SHe lied about something like that?? JUst FABRICATED it out of thin air?

You keep stessing the timeline and timing of her suit filed. You say she stayed with him for two years AFTER he tested positive (O.K., supposedly) for HIV, then they split. Then, a year later or there-abouts, she filed her suit.

Why does that instantly make her a money grubber? A bad person? Do you have ANY idea what she went through with him in their relationship? Maybe, rudy, she stuck by his side because she LOVED HIM, but, like he showed in previous years, she just couldn't trust him. Maybe he continued to show absolutely blatant disregard for her health, and she just couldn't take it anymore.

Maybe, after being seperated from an extremely stressful condition she was living aroung, her head cleared while talking to friends and family, and they heped to persuade her to file this suit.

I don't know or claim to know the details. However, I think it's apparent that Robbie lived a dangerous risky life, he obviously didn't care enough about himself to get tested so, if found to be positive, he could have seeked the all-so-important medical care needed when first being diagnosed with this desease. We all hope this "suit" is incorrect in regards to his health condition, but I think that's a bit of a stretch.

In fact, I absolutely believe it to be true. And as this story unfolds, we'll see. Robbie obviously hasn't addressed it fully......other than to state this is a "private matter".......that should tell you something.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

i'll be very brief as i concur with others that this thread has run it's course.

she was so insistant on him being tested because she was very concerned from what she saw. she noticed him turning into a purple-skinned, foamy-mouthed, bed-ridden monster who needed a wheelchair. she thought he had AIDS and kept imploring him to get tested but he refused. despite all of this, she chose to continue having unprotected sex with him. makes sense. certainly seems like the behavior of someone who's concerned for her own life. she says he "insisted" on unprotected sex. well there you have it. how can you turn down someone insisting? if you genuinely have a serious suspicion that someone has "full-blown AIDS" and they insist you have unprotected sex with them what sort of mind-numbing idiot would you have to be to agree? sorry but even love isn't going to make someone have unprotected sex with someone they feel has "full-blown AIDS".

as for lies and fabrications, i've certainly seen worse. here's a neat little case i remember where one savvy little golddigger faked a paternity test in order to get a sizeable settlement: http://articles.latimes.com/2002/sep...me-kerkorian14
wow, look at that..DNA and everything. all faked. imagine that. she went all the way to court, tried to sue the pants off the guy, and the entire time she knew she was lying.

she's not a moneygrubber because they split or she filed suit 3 yrs after. she's a moneygrubber because she's asking for $15 million for literally nothing more than "stress". i remember when wade boggs' mistress margo adams sued wade for $12mm for "emotional distress". (read: the affair is over and now i gotta get what i can). the result? "In February 1989, an appeals court threw out $11.5 million of the initial lawsuit, ruling that Adams could not seek compensation for emotional distress". it's tough being a golddigger.

anyway, this thread is done. noone's going to know what's truly going on with alomar and any suggestion that they do is nothing more than conjecture.

rudy.

[staindsox]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

This news has made me terribly sad, but I would bet he does have HIV or AIDS and this gold digger is exploiting that. She says there are doctors' records, etc. That will be easy to prove or disprove. If he doesn't have anything, he will go to court and counter-sue. If he does have it, everything would come out in court, so he would likely settle out of court...which is what I'm sure she is banking on. It's basically buying her silence to keep more details from leaking out. How he handles the law suit will say everything.

[metsbats]

Re: Roberto Alomar- sad story if it's true...

My Alomar gamer is from 2002 and the bat is from 2003 which coincides with this alledged incident.

Does it make these items less desirable and worth less now is this story is true?

I like Rudy don't hold less sentimental value of these items as it represents Alomar's accomplishments in baseball and not the mistakes he may have made in life.