Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

[bigtime59]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

I do not agree that had he broken into the bigs with the Royals that he would be out of baseball. While it certainly has helped him over the years having the type of protection in the lineup that he has had, the fact remains that he is a very good hitter that should finish with well over 3000 hits. Players like that would be good to great anywhere not just New York.

Yeah, the "out of baseball" thing was a bit of an exaggeration. "Playing second base for somebody" would probably have been more appropriate...
Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

[bigtime59]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Ozzie Smith on field acrobatics - a back flip




Derek Jeter on field acrobatics - a miracle flip!



See the difference?

A "miracle flip"? If the idiot baserunner had slid, not so much...
Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

[Nathan]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Geez... The same two freakin plays over and over and over again... I watched Omar Vizquel make plays like that for years and no one cared because he was simply not wearing pinstripes. Yankee fan needs to quit milking the same two plays. When you start comparing his defensive skills to Ozzie Smith, that's when the thread needs to end.

No kidding. Consider the following Rate2 numbers (100 is average, over 100 is above average, below 100 is below average).

Ozzie Smith -- 111
Marty Marion -- 110
Honus Wagner -- 108
Barry Larkin -- 103
Rabbit Maranville -- 102
Derek Jeter -- 94
Jose Offerman -- 91

It's funny to hear about how "Jeter could have five rings". It's true. If he hadn't sucked so badly during the 2001 postseason, they certainly could have won a World Series that went down to the last hitter.

[skyking26]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Jeter is a no-brainer. In like flynn...

[mr.miracle]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_weisman/02/03/defense.metrics/index.html

http://baseballguru.com/articles/analysismikehoban03.htm

http://thebronxzoo.wordpress.com/2008/02/23/jeter-doesnt-want-to-switch-positions-not-yet-anyway/

Here are a few more but really, what do any of these people know?

[Ozric]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Geez... The same two freakin plays over and over and over again... I watched Omar Vizquel make plays like that for years and no one cared because he was simply not wearing pinstripes. Yankee fan needs to quit milking the same two plays. When you start comparing his defensive skills to Ozzie Smith, that's when the thread needs to end.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Similar Batters through Age 34

Compare Stats

1. Roberto Alomar (919)
2. Frankie Frisch (871) *
3. Ryne Sandberg (846) *
4. Ivan Rodriguez (838)
5. Joe Torre (831)
6. Charlie Gehringer (829) *
7. Johnny Damon (824)
8. Roberto Clemente (823) *
9. Ted Simmons (822)
10. Robin Yount (821) *

Most Similar by Age

Click on C to compare their stats
Mouse over numbers to view names

1. <LI id=b22 value=22>Jim Viox (974) 2345678910C <LI id=b23 value=23>Rod Carew (976) *2345678910C <LI id=b24 value=24>Marty McManus (954) 2345678910C <LI id=b25 value=25>Carlos Baerga (935) 2345678910C <LI id=b26 value=26>Frankie Frisch (924) *2345678910C <LI id=b27 value=27>Frankie Frisch (918) *2345678910C <LI id=b28 value=28>Frankie Frisch (909) *2345678910C <LI id=b29 value=29>Roberto Alomar (908) 2345678910C <LI id=b30 value=30>Roberto Alomar (907) 2345678910C <LI id=b31 value=31>Roberto Alomar (911) 2345678910C <LI id=b32 value=32>Roberto Alomar (913) 2345678910C <LI id=b33 value=33>Roberto Alomar (920) 2345678910C
2. Roberto Alomar (919) 2345678910C

This is interesting from Baseball reference. I was actually thinking the same thing before looking this up. Jeter broke into the bigs at a relatively young age of 21 much like Robbie Alomar at 20. Their careers are very similar in terms of hitting. Alomar was on pace to crush 3000 hits but completely fell apart at age 34 and never recovered from injuries. Hopefully the same does not happen to Jeter. Alomar was generally injury free for most of his career and then the wheels fell off the cart in his mid 30's.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

I agree Jeter is not a great fielder but he is definitely not as bad as Bigtime is making him out to be. He is slightly above average, but makes up for it by making the play that count. His fielding will never be great, but his vision and instinct to Finnish a great play is second to none.

I do not agree that had he broken into the bigs with the Royals that he would be out of baseball. While it certainly has helped him over the years having the type of protection in the lineup that he has had, the fact remains that he is a very good hitter that should finish with well over 3000 hits. Players like that would be good to great anywhere not just New York.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/primate_studies/discussion/emeigh_2002-11-03_0/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/78253-derek-jeter-slowing-down-the-worst-infielder-in-baseball

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/sports/baseball/Yankees_Defense_Comes_Up_Short_in_Fielding_Bible_Awards.html

Just a few more. It is quite difficult to find anyone but Yankee fans who honestly feel that Jeter is a great fielder. Please don't cite gold gloves won because that is like fan balloting for the allstar game, the same guys win on reputation or perceived ability rather than reality.

Don't get me wrong, the guy is a HOF player but great fielder no quite.

[jetersbatboy]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

I agree Jeter is not a great fielder but he is definitely not as bad as Bigtime is making him out to be. He is slightly above average, but makes up for it by making the play that count. His fielding will never be great, but his vision and instinct to Finnish a great play is second to none.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

http://www.slate.com/id/2195149/

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=39394

http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/overview.asp

http://www.dogstreetjournal.com/story/2995

Jeter is a great player but please find me one person who is reputable in the world of baseball that considers him to be an above average to excellent fielder. Bigtime is right, his range is suspect at best.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Ozzie Smith on field acrobatics - a back flip




Derek Jeter on field acrobatics - a miracle flip!



See the difference?

[bigtime59]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

I keep forgetting this, and I know it's wrong of me: in Yankee$world, defense no longer counts for much. It's hard to have the patented Yankee$effinbaseball game (13-11, five hours average) if people actually get to balls in the infield, or catch them in the outfield. The shorter a game is, the less you can milk the meat in the seats. Silly me.
I'd forgotten that the object of this $200MM slow-pitch softball team was to see if you could have a SS at 3B, a 2B at SS, and a group of aged, immobile outfielders who can't throw the ball in on less than one bounce.
Mea Culpa, kiddies. Mea Culpa.
Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

[bigtime59]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Derek Jeter lifetime fielding percentage .975
Ozzie Smith lifetime fielding percentage .978

Derek Jeter fielding range

vs
Ozzie Smith fielding range

Get the picture?

[nyjetsfan14]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Greatest winner of our baseball generation. Cornerstone of the 90's Yankees dynasty. Signature plays out the wazoo. Clutch clutch cluthch class class class. Embodies everything a HOFer should be. And this is from a true Yankee hater. Not only does he go in, he goes in backwards as one of the top if not the top player of his time. With so many American players backing out of the WBC or playing for other countries maybe sometime, knowing I'll get completely bashed to pieces, I'll start another thread about the few who still desire and feel an obligation to represent our country, the country that made them millionaires. Everytime USA baseball has called Jeter has always answered the call and I always respect him for that as well as being a credit to the game.