Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

[Ozric]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Geez... The same two freakin plays over and over and over again... I watched Omar Vizquel make plays like that for years and no one cared because he was simply not wearing pinstripes. Yankee fan needs to quit milking the same two plays. When you start comparing his defensive skills to Ozzie Smith, that's when the thread needs to end.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_weisman/02/03/defense.metrics/index.html

http://baseballguru.com/articles/analysismikehoban03.htm

http://thebronxzoo.wordpress.com/2008/02/23/jeter-doesnt-want-to-switch-positions-not-yet-anyway/

Here are a few more but really, what do any of these people know?

[skyking26]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Jeter is a no-brainer. In like flynn...

[Nathan]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Geez... The same two freakin plays over and over and over again... I watched Omar Vizquel make plays like that for years and no one cared because he was simply not wearing pinstripes. Yankee fan needs to quit milking the same two plays. When you start comparing his defensive skills to Ozzie Smith, that's when the thread needs to end.

No kidding. Consider the following Rate2 numbers (100 is average, over 100 is above average, below 100 is below average).

Ozzie Smith -- 111
Marty Marion -- 110
Honus Wagner -- 108
Barry Larkin -- 103
Rabbit Maranville -- 102
Derek Jeter -- 94
Jose Offerman -- 91

It's funny to hear about how "Jeter could have five rings". It's true. If he hadn't sucked so badly during the 2001 postseason, they certainly could have won a World Series that went down to the last hitter.

[bigtime59]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Ozzie Smith on field acrobatics - a back flip




Derek Jeter on field acrobatics - a miracle flip!



See the difference?

A "miracle flip"? If the idiot baserunner had slid, not so much...
Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

[bigtime59]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

I do not agree that had he broken into the bigs with the Royals that he would be out of baseball. While it certainly has helped him over the years having the type of protection in the lineup that he has had, the fact remains that he is a very good hitter that should finish with well over 3000 hits. Players like that would be good to great anywhere not just New York.

Yeah, the "out of baseball" thing was a bit of an exaggeration. "Playing second base for somebody" would probably have been more appropriate...
Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

[mr.miracle]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Yeah, the "out of baseball" thing was a bit of an exaggeration. "Playing second base for somebody" would probably have been more appropriate...
Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

Mark, you crack me up. It will be interesting to see if Jeter holds to his stance that he wants to continue to play short. A tall shortstop playing SS as he ages through his mid to late 30's with deteriorating range is a touchy subject especially for the Yankee captain. Jeter will be what 35 this summer. A couple of more years and this might begin to become a sore subject.

[Yankwood]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

I'll say it again and again. Yes, he will get in the hall of fame.

But if he played for another team, and never played for the Yankees, he'd be just another good player.

How many "good" players collect 3000 hits? Jeter's great...

[3arod13]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

How many "good" players collect 3000 hits? Jeter's great...

I'm not saying Jeter isn't a good player. I'm not saying Jeter isn't worthy of the HOF.

I'm just saying if he didn't start out with and play for the New York Yankees, he would be looking at different as a player, and probably wouldn't have 4 WS rings.

Many love to throw the 4 WS rings up in everyones face. Robert Horry of the NBA has 7 NBA championship rings, and he won't end up in the HOF. He is just a player who played on many great teams, and that's how he
7 rings.

Remember, Jeter didn't win those 4 rings by himself. Baseball is a team sport. Jeter is a good player, and his individual play is worthy of the HOF. But he didn't win 4 WS rings by himself. He was a good player on great teams.

Regards, Tony

[Mr.3000]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

I'll just add this.....soley my opinion.


The rings don't make the player. It's great that he has them, that's that.



Looking at Jeter as an individual player.....

Had he been on another team his entire career.....perhaps a team without the media attention that NY gets....


He would....in my opinion...be a Craig Biggio type player. Biggio will make the HOF purely on his 3000+ hits. other than that he wasn't a huge superstar. He was a good, quiet, consistant player who played the game the right way and played hard.

I see Jeter and Biggio as pretty similar TYPE of players.....albeit, Jeter is without a doubt the better hitter of the two.


My point, if Jeter were on....let's say KC his entire career.....and DID NOT get 3000 hits....he would NOT make the HOF. As it is now...if he retired today....he WOULD make the HOF...1st ballot.


Being a Yankee has it's advantages. Everyone knows this.





















Psstt.....nobody should read the above incorrectly...I am a Jeter fan. Thought that should be mentioned before someone misconstrues what I am saying. As much as I am a fan, I am fair with my opinions of players. I don't idolize any of them.

[3arod13]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

I'll just add this.....soley my opinion.


The rings don't make the player. It's great that he has them, that's that.

Looking at Jeter as an individual player.....

Had he been on another team his entire career.....perhaps a team without the media attention that NY gets....

He would....in my opinion...be a Craig Biggio type player. Biggio will make the HOF purely on his 3000+ hits. other than that he wasn't a huge superstar. He was a good, quiet, consistant player who played the game the right way and played hard.

I see Jeter and Biggio as pretty similar TYPE of players.....albeit, Jeter is without a doubt the better hitter of the two.

My point, if Jeter were on....let's say KC his entire career.....and DID NOT get 3000 hits....he would NOT make the HOF. As it is now...if he retired today....he WOULD make the HOF...1st ballot.

Being a Yankee has it's advantages. Everyone knows this.

Psstt.....nobody should read the above incorrectly...I am a Jeter fan. Thought that should be mentioned before someone misconstrues what I am saying. As much as I am a fan, I am fair with my opinions of players. I don't idolize any of them.

That is my point exactly. I'm also a Yankee fan and I like Jeter. Playing for the New York Yankees does make a difference. Well said!

[mr.miracle]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

I'm not saying Jeter isn't a good player. I'm not saying Jeter isn't worthy of the HOF.

I'm just saying if he didn't start out with and play for the New York Yankees, he would be looking at different as a player, and probably wouldn't have 4 WS rings.

Many love to throw the 4 WS rings up in everyones face. Robert Horry of the NBA has 7 NBA championship rings, and he won't end up in the HOF. He is just a player who played on many great teams, and that's how he
7 rings.

Remember, Jeter didn't win those 4 rings by himself. Baseball is a team sport. Jeter is a good player, and his individual play is worthy of the HOF. But he didn't win 4 WS rings by himself. He was a good player on great teams.

Regards, Tony

Regarding Horry, not saying he should, in fact based on overall statistics he should not, but there is a contingent that has argued that he should be in the HOF. Arguably the greatest clutch shooter in the history of the NBA. He is the one guy that when the game was on the line, you never, ever wanted to let open yet teams did it time and time again. He really did come up big when it counted.

[Yankwood]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

And he is going to retire with more hits than any player in the HISTORY of the New York Yankees. Think about that. Not the Gates-Chili Spartans. Not the East High Orientals. THE NEW YORK YANKEES. The most successful and storied team in the history of professional sports. The MOST. I'm not even talking about the rings. Although he did play a huge and I might add CLUTCH part in helping to garner those rings. If that doesn't mean anything then you just don't like the guy. And that's okay. We all have players we like and don't like. But there's no denying it. The guy's a great player. Remember, Hal Newhouser quit his job because the Asdtros didn't draft him with their first pick. He certainly hasn't disappointed Yankee fans. Another guy has though.

[CollectGU]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

I'll just add this.....soley my opinion.


The rings don't make the player. It's great that he has them, that's that.

Wow. tell that to Dan Marino. With them he is the greatest quaterback ever to play, wthout them there is a debate....Bradshaws' numbers without rings look average....To say 4 rings don't factor is silly...

Dave

[Mr.3000]

Re: Derek Jeter HOF worthy?

Wow. tell that to Dan Marino. With them he is the greatest quaterback ever to play, wthout them there is a debate....Bradshaws' numbers without rings look average....To say 4 rings don't factor is silly...

Dave

Let's read exactly what I said and comprehend it properly. I said rings don't make the player. Individual ability makes the player. Chad Curtis has rings, Jim Leyritz has rings, Mike Figga has rings..all with the Yankees. None of them are "great because they have WS rings". Even Posado (4 rings) won't be remembered as a "great" player. He's an ok catcher who happened to play on a dominant team.

Sad that I even had to elaborate on what I said and apparently explain it again.