Wood bats VS. Aluminum

[xpress34]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

So - maybe I'm not experienced with aluminum vs. wood. But I don't understand a LOT about a LOT of different things. Care to clarify here or in email?

Les -

Not trying to add fuel to the fire here, but you asked me this question like two pages ago - I took the time to give you an honest and hopefully insightful answer to the ACTUAL topic of this thread and instead of giving any feedback on what I gave you, you do seem more interested in keeping this 'fight' going about sexism, etc. rather than really learning about wood vs aluminum...

Just my personal observation.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

Not sure how this topic came onto an issue about "sexist"........

Its very simple. Its Frik.

Every time she gets into a thread, it goes right down the toilet. I'm not baiting, teasing, enciting, enticing, arguing, or anything else other than simply stating a fact. I think the membership will agree.

In another thread, we went from discussing BMH's webpage and what an asset he is to the hobby to complaining about wood bats to saving trees to protecting the homes of squirrels.

In this thread, we tried to revive the wood vs. aluminum conversation and now members are being accussed of being sexist.

Anyone else seeing a pattern here?

[GarkoCollector]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

The fact of the matter is that Women do not perform to the same standard of sports that require strength or hand-eye coordination that men do. I love women, I have nothing against them, but to be honest, I can see the same thing in a WNBA game that I can see at a local High School girl's game. The excitement level is nil.

Women in general are not as fast or strong as men. 100 meters in the Olympics. Women are light years behind men in the record books time wise. Is it because they are suppressed due to their gender? NO! Its that they arent as fast and never will be. Its not sexist, its science.

You could take a decent High School Baseball player and the very best College Softball hitter in the country and she wont hit a baseball or a softball further than he will. Again, its not sexist, its science.

And by the way:


I thought this summed things up perfectly.
Tom

[joelsabi]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

after seeing pujol hit padre pitcher chris young straight in the face last year, i cant imagine what would have happen with an aluminum bat. i would not mind banning aluminum bats at the high school level either. sometimes the talent level between two high school team can be very large and the intimidation of hitting one straight up the middle is so tempting and also a dangerous proposition.

[aeneas01]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

if you can get past the abundance of bad information out there, much of which is fueled by extremely rare (albeit very tragic) injuries, i think you would be extremely hard-pressed to present a convincing argument that aluminum bats are any more dangerous than wood bats - studies have been conducted ad nauseum, ranging from from sweet spot size, trampoline effect, velocity after impact, etc., which suggest aluminum bats simply do not pose a greater danger. in a 10-year study ('91-'01) more deaths were caused by thrown balls than balls hit by aluminum bats.

as far as youth baseball is concerned, i believe that age brackets and the enormous gulf in athletic ability is the major culprit when it comes to serious bat-related injuries, not bat composition. for example, 9-12 year-olds (or, potentially, 8.5-12.5 year-olds) playing together in the "major" division with a 46' pitching distance is clearly a recipe for disaster. in fact it's not at all unusual for kids in this division to have easily outgrown the field - a big, athletic 12.5 year-old batting with only 46' between the mound and home plate is a very scary sight - regardless if the player is swinging metal or wood. even at the high school and college levels the disparity in age, physical development and athletic ability is a major contributor to bat-related injuries imo.

i played baseball throughout my youth (i was team mvp my junior and senior years - atta boys for robert!) and now i have the extreme pleasure of watching my son play baseball. he has made the all-star team every year he has played but it wasn't until he played in the "majors" all-stars that i became extremely uneasy. no surprise here, but the kids that tend to make the all-stars at that level are the big kids on the team (my son is a big kid) because they can usually hit and throw harder. so the "majors" all-stars consist of a bunch of big kids playing on a tiny field - i was scared for my son when he pitched and played third and i was scared for the pitcher and third baseman when my son was at the plate. would i have rested any easier if the boys were swing wood? not one bit.

aluminum bats have been a godsend for money-strapped school budgets and recreation leagues - even though some can be pretty pricey, they certainly last longer and are cheaper in the long run. and i suspect they aren't going anywhere. would i like to see aluminum bats in the majors? would i like to hear the "twang" of metal as i enter a pro ball park during batting practice? hell no! never! heck, i'm still trying to get used to black and pink bats! double heck - it took years to get over the navy blue rings on adirondack bats!

speaking of my all-star, here he is through the years (his age at the time is circled) - man does time fly by. thankfully he's now 13 and playing on the big boys field - what a blast to watch!



...

[joelsabi]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

if you can get past the abundance of bad information out there, much of which is fueled by extremely rare (albeit very tragic) injuries, i think you would be extremely hard-pressed to present a convincing argument that aluminum bats are any more dangerous than wood bats - studies have been conducted ad nauseum, ranging from from sweet spot size, trampoline effect, velocity after impact, etc., which suggest aluminum bats simply do not pose a greater danger. in a 10-year study ('91-'01) more deaths were caused by thrown balls than balls hit by aluminum bats.

as far as youth baseball is concerned, i believe that age brackets and the enormous gulf in athletic ability is the major culprit when it comes to serious bat-related injuries, not bat composition. for example, 9-12 year-olds (or, potentially, 8.5-12.5 year-olds) playing together in the "major" division with a 46' pitching distance is clearly a recipe for disaster. in fact it's not at all unusual for kids in this division to have easily outgrown the field - a big, athletic 12.5 year-old batting with only 46' between the mound and home plate is a very scary sight - regardless if the player is swinging metal or wood. even at the high school and college levels the disparity in age, physical development and athletic ability is a major contributor to bat-related injuries imo.

i played baseball throughout my youth (i was team mvp my junior and senior years - atta boys for robert!) and now i have the extreme pleasure of watching my son play baseball. he has made the all-star team every year he has played but it wasn't until he played in the "majors" all-stars that i became extremely uneasy. no surprise here, but the kids that tend to make the all-stars at that level are the big kids on the team (my son is a big kid) because they can usually hit and throw harder. so the "majors" all-stars consist of a bunch of big kids playing on a tiny field - i was scared for my son when he pitched and played third and i was scared for the pitcher and third baseman when my son was at the plate. would i have rested any easier if the boys were swing wood? not one bit.

aluminum bats have been a godsend for money-strapped school budgets and recreation leagues - even though some can be pretty pricey, they certainly last longer and are cheaper in the long run. and i suspect they aren't going anywhere. would i like to see aluminum bats in the majors? would i like to hear the "twang" of metal as i enter a pro ball park during batting practice? hell no! never! heck, i'm still trying to get used to black and pink bats! double heck - it took years to get over the navy blue rings on adirondack bats!

speaking of my all-star, here he is through the years (his age at the time is circled) - man does time fly by. thankfully he's now 13 and playing on the big boys field - what a blast to watch!



...

aeneas1, nice post as always. the disparity in ability between pitcher and hitter or the just the brute strength of the hitter in comparison to the dimension of the field would be big factors. there was another thread where someone mentioned parents from an entire little league team pulled their kids based on one large kid who threw really hard off the mound.

also i thinks major injuries rather than deaths should be the main stats to look at for baseball bat injuries.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

speaking of my all-star, here he is through the years (his age at the time is circled) - man does time fly by. thankfully he's now 13 and playing on the big boys field - what a blast to watch!



...

Diamondbacks, Padres, Indians, Mariners, Red Sox....he sure gets traded alot!

I think there's some collusion by the owners to keep him from being a 5 and 10 year man.

[skyking26]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

Diamondbacks, Padres, Indians, Mariners, Red Sox....he sure gets traded alot!

I think there's some collusion by the owners to keep him from being a 5 and 10 year man.

Now this is where it is at!!! The hobby is dead, not a thing going on and especially on these boards. As usual, we are listening to insightful chat about saving squirrels, sexism, and God knows what is next. I personally have had enough. My son just completed his 6th grade basketball season with a nice banquet last night; and now we move onto 11/12 baseball season.

I think I'll follow that instead of the topics that continuously are allowed to be held here. Topics should be held to game used only.

Enjoy.

RK

[hrvatwill]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

Without taking a stance on the ultimate environmental friendliness of the wooden vs. aluminum bat debate, I would like to submit that the issue is broader than just the end product that ballplayers use.

To make aluminum, a great deal of bauxite must first be mined from the earth from which the alumina is subsequently recovered via a series of complex chemical processes.

The alumina must then be smelted and smelters are notorious for using tremendous amounts of power (in fact, smelting may be the most energy intensive process in the US economy), much of which is generated by carbon based fuels that produce non environmentally friendly emissions. At the end of the day, it takes four tons of bauxite to make one ton of aluminum.

Against that backdrop, I would be hesitant to look upon aluminum bats as a "green solution", not that anybody said that and to be clear, I am not attacking anything that was said or any individual that said anything. Just thought it might be relevant to the debate.

Moving on to my personal preference, I used both wood and aluminum while playing little league, high school and college and believe it or not, I once hit a HR a little bit over 500 ft with an aluminum bat, something which I could not even begin to approach with a wooden bat. I also once had a tryout with a MLB team (for their minor league system, of course) and they made me use wood to remove the distortive effects of the aluminum (as I batted left-handed, they also made me hit off of a left-handed pitcher the entire time ).

I guess my point is that aluminum can mask a lot of sins and as a result, I am against its use in the pros. Or perhaps more eloquently, hitting is an art and the wooden bat, its paintbrush.

[bigtime59]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

I would love for some actual "bat people" to weigh in on this, because I may be wrong, but here's what I believe to be true...
The argument shouldn't be a simplistic wood vs metal one. It should be wood vs metal vs composite. IIRC, composite bats can be "tuned" just about any way you want them ("hotter" or "deader").
If there someday came to pass a shortage of wood so great that it required non-wood bats in pro baseball, I'm sure we'd see the introduction of "detuned" composite bats that mimicked the properties of wood bats as closely as possible. In fact, I think that's what should be used in high school and college now. You'd have a much better feel for how pitchers would perform against wood bats if they'd been pitching to players swinging something that performed like a wood bat.
(Sorry to have injected something like nuance into this thread...and to have not mentioned saving the farting squirrels!)

Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

[camarokids]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

You ever see Jennie Finch throw???

- Chris

I saw it too, she is hot!

If I remember correctly, the major league batter could not hit one of her pitches.....

[chakes89]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

Sean Casey was the only player to get a hit off of her when she made that publicity tour a few years ago

[bigtruck260]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

"Real baseball" as opposed "fake baseball"? Not sexist?

So - the inferior version they have for girls is not "real baseball"?

Softball?

Because girls are simply not capable of playing baseball?

They can't even have girls only baseball? Because girls are not capable?

Not sexist?

This is what I love about being a female baseball fan; I am somehow less a participant in a sports-related community because of my biological sex. Nothing fails like being female, because the sports world takes part in discursive norms that are by definition, exclusionary. And somehow, I am supposed to believe it's "not sexist"!

That's why we have the NBA and the WNBA. As opposed to the MNBA and the WNBA. It's because the WNBA is the marked form, equated with the female, lesser sex. It's pretty obvious the message that women in this culture get. And the sports world does nothing but reinforce that women are second-class citizens.

Frik - get over yourself.

REAL Baseball = baseball where the players are of adult strength and the pitchers are able to throw the baseball from 60 and 1/2 feet at a speed above 75 mph. The batters are strong enough to connect on a pitch that speed and occasionally drive the ball 300+ feet.

Now, if you have played at that level great for you and I am impressed.

7th grade softball and intramural baseball does not count as REAL< ORGANIZED BASEBALL. It is becoming hard to be a friend of yours here.

[xpress34]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

I guess my point is that aluminum can mask a lot of sins and as a result, I am against its use in the pros. Or perhaps more eloquently, hitting is an art and the wooden bat, its paintbrush.

GREAT statement!!! I could not agree more!!!

[xpress34]

Re: Wood bats VS. Aluminum

I would love for some actual "bat people" to weigh in on this, because I may be wrong, but here's what I believe to be true...
The argument shouldn't be a simplistic wood vs metal one. It should be wood vs metal vs composite. IIRC, composite bats can be "tuned" just about any way you want them ("hotter" or "deader").
If there someday came to pass a shortage of wood so great that it required non-wood bats in pro baseball, I'm sure we'd see the introduction of "detuned" composite bats that mimicked the properties of wood bats as closely as possible. In fact, I think that's what should be used in high school and college now. You'd have a much better feel for how pitchers would perform against wood bats if they'd been pitching to players swinging something that performed like a wood bat.
(Sorry to have injected something like nuance into this thread...and to have not mentioned saving the farting squirrels!)

Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

Mark -

Your questions reminded me of something I forgot in an earlier post - another reason Aluminum will not make the Majors - and also why you won't see Composites (Graphite and such)...

The MLB rules on bats disallowed what they consider 'soft woods' - such as Willow and the like back in the 30's or something due to their 'whip effect' when being swung.

By that, I mean that like a Graphite shaft golf club (compared to a steel shaft) has greater 'flex' when you swing it, therefore creating greater velocity at the point of impact.

Both Aluminum bats and Composite bats also have a 'flex' tendency which is why some bats have been 'outlawed' by both USSSA and ASA Softball Associations.

Yes, there are some pictures of players in swing where you can see the Ash or Maple bats bowing or flexing, but that is minor compared to aluminum and composite.

Think about this - if a player can 'flex' a hardwood bat like that, imagine the increased flex he would get with an aluminum or composite bat.

I hope that answers your question...