WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

[kellsox]

Seems you hear more about the players that are not playing or backing out. Just read that Latroy Hawkins was placed on the US team.....you would think that he would be way down the list of potential players. It looks to me like this tournament is more meaningful to non-US countries. In my opinion, the rules are very Little League-ish and I'm just not that into it. Thoughts...
k

[suave1477]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

Well I have mixed feelings about it.

I think it is pretty cool to watch our country vs. other countries - kind of like an olympics games of the best of the best.

You are right though, in 2006 it was all the rage for all the big name players to be apart of it. But seems like the hype has died down and the big name players (Not all) seem less interested in being a part of it. So they WBC usually goes to the next string of player after the super stars to see if they want to play.

Reminds me of the Summer Olympics with Basketball first 2 times I believe we were blowing out the other countries by huge margins because we had all our super star players playing, but they got tired because they were beating the other teams so badly they felt it was beneath them to play when the next time came around and decided to sit out and let the second string players, play. Which I believe we lost the next few olympics.

[gingi79]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

Unlike other countries, we have a yearly WBC called Major League Baseball. Most of the best baseball players in the world play in MLB. It's a money making scheme made up to "grow" a game that is already worldwide.

If they really wanted to produce a WBC, they should institute an "amateur" only clause where the best young talent from other countries and especially the U.S. could showcase their wares. It would help show people and teams the hot up and comers against primo opposition and show other countries young stars so our teams could sign them.

It's more of a worldwide open tryout for MLB teams anyway, not a "showcase of worldwide talent to grow the sport"

[treasurechest collectibles]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

It looks to me like this tournament is more meaningful to non-US countries...
k

Bingo.

[godwulf]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

In my opinion, the rules are very Little League-ish and I'm just not that into it. Thoughts...

What is "Little League-ish" about the rules, in your opinion?

But seems like the hype has died down and the big name players (Not all) seem less interested in being a part of it. So they WBC usually goes to the next string of player after the super stars to see if they want to play.

Second string players? Really?

2009 WBC Provisional Roster
Arizona Diamondbacks
Travis Blackley AUS L/L
Luke Carlin, CAN S/R
Felipe Lopez, PUR S/R
Agustin Murillo, MEX R/R
Trent Oeltjen, AUS L/L
Augie Ojeda, MEX S/R
Gerardo Parra, VEN L/L
Tony Pena, DOM R/R
Chad Qualls, USA R/R

Atlanta Braves
Manny Acosta, PAN S/R
Gregor Blanco, VEN L/L
Jose Camarena, PAN S/R
Jorge Campillo, MEX R/R
Yeliar Castro, PAN R/R
Dimaster Delgado, PAN L/L
Randall Delgado, PAN R/R
Scott Diamond, CAN L/L
Bryan Dumesnil, CAN R/L
Chipper Jones, USA S/R
Jair Jurrjens, NED R/R
Mathew Kennelly, AUS R/R
Brian McCann, USA L/R
Concepcion Rodriguez, PAN R/R
Phil Stockman, AUS R/R
Javier Vazquez, PUR R/R

Baltimore Orioles
Mikel Costanzo,ITA L/R
Jeff Fiorentino, ITA L/R
Clifford Flagello, ITA R/R
Jeremy Guthrie, USA R/R
Cesar Izturis, Cesar VEN S/R
Lou Montanez, Lou PUR R/R
Melvin Mora, Melvin VEN R/R
Dashenko Ricardo, NED R/R
Brian Roberts, USA S/R
Oscar Salazar, VEN R/R
George Sherrill, USA L/L

Boston Red Sox
Jason Bay, CAN R/R
Angel Chavez, PAN R/R
Chih-Hsien Chiang, TPE L/R
Mitch Dening, AUS L/R
Justin Erasmus, RSA R/R
George Kottaras, CAN L/R
Che-Hsuan Lin, TPE R/R
Javier Lopez, PUR L/L
Mike Lowell, PUR R/R
Daisuke Matsuzaka, JPN R/R
Dennis Neuman, NED R/R
Hideki Okajima, JPN L/L
David Ortiz, DOM L/L
Dustin Pedroia, USA R/R
Ramon Ramirez, DOM R/R
Kevin Youkilis, USA R/R

Chicago Cubs
Jose Ascanio, VEN R/R
Hung-Wen Chen, TPE R/R
Kosuke Fukudome, JPN L/R
Angel Guzman, VEN R/R
Rich Harden, CAN L/R
Dwayne Kemp, NED S/R
Derrek Lee, USA R/R
Ted Lilly, USA L/L
Alex Maestri, TA R/R
Carlos Marmol, DOM R/R
Vince Perkins, CAN L/R
Aramis Ramirez, DOM R/R
Chris Robinson, CAN R/R
Ryan Searle, AUS R/R
Alfonso Soriano, DOM R/R
Geovany Soto, PUR R/R
Carlos Zambrano, VEN S/R

Chicago White Sox
Cole Armstrong, CAN L/R
Javier Castillo, PAN R/R
John Danks, USA L/L
Octavio Dotel, DOM R/R
AJ Pierzynski, USA L/R
Carlos Quentin, USA R/R
Matt Thornton, USA L/L

Cincinnati Reds
James Avery, CAN R/R
Wilkin Castillo, DOM S/R
Francisco Cordero, DOM R/R
Johnny Cueto, DOM R/R
Jerry Hairston Jr., MEX R/R
Ramon Hernandez, VEN R/R
Yen-Wen Kuo, TPE L/R
Kyle Lotzkar, CAN L/R
Luis Machuca, PAN R/R
Lucal Panerati, ITA L/L
Matteo Pizziconi, ITA L/L
Alexander Smit, NED L/L
Juan Carlos Sulbaran, NED R/R
Willy Taveras, DOM R/R
Phillipe-Alexandre Valiquette, CAN L/L
Edinson Volquez, DOM R/R
Joey Votto, CAN L/R

Cleveland Indians
Rafael Betancourt, VEN R/R
Fausto Carmona, DOM R/R
Shin-Shoo Choo, KOR L/L
Cirilo Cumberbatch, PAN R/R
Mark DeRosa, USA R/R
Damaso Espino, PAN R/R
Paolo Espino, PAN R/R
Masahide Kobayashi, JPN R/R
Chen Lee, TPE R/R
Jhonny Peralta, DOM R/R
Rafael Perez, DOM L/L
Grady Sizemore, USA L/L
Sung-Wei Tseng, TPE R/R
Nicholas Weglarz, CAN L/L

Colorado Rockies
Adam Bright, AUS L/L
Manuel Corpas, PAN R/R
Jorge De La Rosa, MEX L/L
Jeff Francis, CAN L/L
Carlos Gonzalez, VEN L/L
Jason Grilli, ITA R/R
Brad Hawpe, USA L/L
Chris Iannetta, USA R/R
Ubaldo Jimenez, DOM R/R
Ching Lung Lo, TPE R/R
Omar Quintanilla, MEX L/R

Detroit Tigers
Miguel Cabrera, VEN R/R
Armando Galarraga, VEN R/R
Andrew Graham, AUS R/R
Curtis Granderson, USA L/R
Carlos Guillen, VEN S/R
Cale Iorg, CAN R/R
Fue-Te Ni, TPE L/L
Magglio Ordonez, VEN R/R
Placido Polanco, DOM R/R
Juan Rincon, VEN R/R
Fernando Rodney, DOM R/R
Max St. Pierre, CAN R/R
Justin Verlander, USA R/R
Brendan Wise, AUS L/R

Florida Marlins
Alfredo Amezaga, MEX S/R
Jorge Cantu, MEX R/R
Andy Gonzalez, PUR R/R
Christopher Leroux, CAN L/R
Matt Lindstrom, USA R/R
Renyel Pinto, VEN L/L
Hanley Ramirez, DOM R/R
Anibal Sanchez, VEN R/R
Rick VandenHurk, NED R/R

Houston Astros
Chris Barnwell, CAN R/R
T.J. Burton, CAN L/R
Carlos Lee, PAN R/R
Chia-Jen Lo, TPE R/R
Fernando Nieve, VEN R/R
Roy Oswalt, USA R/R
Humberto Quintero, VEN R/R
Wandy Rodriguez, DOM R/L
Miguel Tejada, DOM R/R
Jose Valverde, DOM R/R

Kansas City Royals
Mike Aviles, PUR R/R
Lenny DiNardo, ITA L/L
Jose Guillen, DOM R/R
Dylan Lindsay, RSA R/R
Miguel Olivo, DOM R/R
Joakim Soria, MEX R/R
Mark Teahen, CAN L/R
Oscar Villarreal, MEX L/R

Los Angeles Angels
Jose Arredondo, DOM R/R
Luis Figueroa, PUR S/R
Brian Fuentes, USA L/L
Vladimir Guerrero, DOM R/R
Maicer Izturis, VEN S/R
Mike Napoli, ITA R/R
Kasey Olenberger, ITA R/R
Kevin Ramos, PAN R/R
Juan Rivera, VEN R/R
Freddy Sandoval,MEX S/R
Ervin Santana, DOM R/R
Joe Saunders, USA L/L
Scot Shields, USA R/R
Hainley Statia, NED S/R
Rich Thompson, AUS R/R

Los Angeles Dodgers
Jonathan Broxton, USA R/R
Juan Castro, MEX R/R
Ivan De Jesus, PUR R/R
Kenley Jansen, NED S/R
Russell Martin, CAN R/R
Brian Mazone, ITA L/L
Valentino Pascucci, ITA R/R

Milwaukee Brewers
Ryan Braun, USA R/R
Mark DiFelice, ITA R/R
Yovani Gallardo, MEX R/R
Jorge Julio, VEN R/R
Lawrie Lawrie, CAN R/R
Alex Periard, CAN L/R
Vinny Rottino, ITA R/R
R.J. Swindle, CAN L/L
David Welch, AUS R/L

Minnesota Twins
James Beresford, AUS L/R
Daniel Berg, AUS R/R
Jesse Crain, CAN R/R
Allan de San Miguel, AUS R/R
Raynard Doran, NED R/R
Carlos Gutierrez, PUR R/R
Liam Hendriks, AUS R/R
Luke Hughes, AUS R/R
Francisco Liriano, DOM L/L
Luis Matos, PUR R/R
Jose Mijares, VEN L/L
Justin Morneau, CAN L/R
Joe Nathan, USA R/R
Nick Punto, ITA S/R
Hein Robb, RSA L/L
Maurol Schiavoni, ITA R/R
Tom Stuifbergen, NED R/R
Tippett, BradleyAUS R/R
Williams, MatthewAUS R/R

New York Mets
Carlos Beltran, PUR S/R
Shawn Bowman, CAN R/R
Alex Cora, PUR L/R
Angel Cuan, PAN L/L
Carlos Delgado, PUR L/R
Jesus Feliciano, PUR L/L
Pedro Feliciano, PUR L/L
J.J. Putz, J.J. USA R/R
Jose Reyes, DOM S/R
Francisco Rodriguez,VEN R/R
Johan Santana, VEN L/L
Brian Schneider, USA L/R
Ruban Tejada, PAN R/R
Stefan Welch, AUS L/R
David Wright, USA R/R

New York Yankees
Alfredo Aceves, MEX R/R
Melky Cabrera, DOM S/L
Robinson Cano, DOM L/R
Francisco Cervelli, ITA R/R
Derek Jeter, USA R/R
Kai Liu, CHN L/L
Damaso Marte, DOM L/L
Edwar Ramirez, DOM R/R
Alex Rodriguez, DOM R/R
Jahdiel Santamaria, PAN R/R
Jorge Vazquez, MEX R/R
Jose Veras, DOM R/R
Zhenwang Zhang, CHN R/R

Oakland Athletics
Santiago Casilla, DOM R/R
Chris Denorfia, ITA R/R
Joey Devine, USA R/R
Scott Mitchinson, AUS R/R
Ricardo Penalba, PAN R/R
Brad Ziegler, USA R/R

Philadelphia Phillies
Mike Bolsenbroek, NED R/R
Carlos Carrasco, VEN R/R
Brad Harman, AUS R/R
Joel Naughton, AUS L/R
Drew Naylor, AUS R/R
Ronny Paulino, DOM R/R
Jimmy Rollins, USA S/R
J.C. Romero, PUR S/L
Carlos Ruiz, PAN R/R
Mike Spidale, TA R/R
Matt Stairs, CAN L/R
Shane Victorino, USA S/R

Pittsburgh Pirates
Ray Chang, CHN R/R
Chi-Hung Cheng, TPE L/L
Luis Cruz, MEX R/R
David Davidson, CAN L/L
Diomedes Garcia, PAN R/R
Joshua Hill, AUS R/R
Paul Mildren, AUS R/L
Eliecer Navarro, PAN L/L
Jamie Romak, CAN R/R
Ciro Rosero, PAN R/R
Ian Snell, PUR R/R
Ramon Vazquez, PUR L/R

San Diego Padres
Alessio Angelucci, RSA R/R
Philip Barzilla, ITA L/L
Henry Blanco, VEN R/R
Peter Ciofrone, ITA L/R
Luis Durango, PAN S/R
Adrian Gonzalez, MEX L/L
Edgar Gonzalez, MEX R/R
Scott Hairston, MEX R/R
Jake Peavy, USA R/R
Vince Sinisi, ITA L/L

San Francisco Giants
Jesus Guzman, VEN R/R
Brooks McNiven, CAN R/R
Bengie Molina, PUR R/R
Jonathan Sanchez, PUR L/L
Pablo Sandoval, VEN S/R
Sharlon Schoop, NED R/R
Andres Torres, PUR S/R

Seattle Mariners
Phillipe Aumont, CAN L/R
Adrian Beltre, DOM R/R
Manuel Campos, PAN R/R
Endy Chavez, VEN L/L
Greg Halman, NED R/R
Felix Hernandez, VEN R/R
Cesar Jimenez, VEN L/L
Kenji Johjima, JPN R/R
Alex Liddi, ITA R/R
Kuo Hui Lo, TPE R/R
Jose Lopez, VEN R/R
Anthony Phillips, RSA R/R
Ryan Rowland-Smith, AUS L/L
Kalian Sams, NED R/R
Carlos Silva, VEN R/R
Ichiro Suzuki, JPN L/R

St. Louis Cardinals
Isa Garcia, PAN R/R
Blake Hawksworth, CAN R/R
Ryan Ludwick, USA R/L
Yadier Molina, PUR R/R
Arquimedes Nieto, PAN R/R
Adam Ottavino, ITA L/R
Joel Pineiro, PUR R/R
Albert Pujols, DOM R/R
Curt Smith, NED R/R

Tampa Bay Rays
Grant Balfour, AUS R/R
Matt Garza, MEX R/R
J.P. Howell, USA L/L
Akinori Iwamura, JPN L/R
Scott Kazmir, USA L/L
Evan Longoria, USA R/R
Dioner Navarro, VEN S/R
Carlos Pena, DOM L/L

Texas Rangers
Frank Catalanotto, ITA L/R
Luis Mendoza, MEX R/R
Max Ramirez, VEN R/R
Omar Vizquel, VEN S/R

Toronto Blue Jays
Rod Barajas, MEX R/R
Scott Richmond, CAN R/R
Alex Rios, PUR R/R
Manuel Rodriguez, PAN L/L
Orlando Roman, PUR R/R
B.J. Ryan, USA L/L
Marco Scutaro, VEN R/R
Vernon Wells, USA R/R

Washington Nationals
Roger Bernadina, NED L/L
Daniel Cabrera, DOM R/R
Jose Castillo, VEN R/R
Shairon Martis, NED R/R
Pete Orr, CAN L/R
Jorge Padilla, PUR R/R
Saul Rivera, PUR S/R

I started to count all the All-Stars and MVPs in that group, but ran out of fingers and toes about a third of the way through.

[suave1477]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

Godwulf first of all thats not the Rosters. That is the Provisional Rosters.

Just so you know Between Yesterday and Today 4 Starting Players pulled out.
Grady Sizemore
Brian Fuentes
Joe Nathan
BJ Ryan
Melky Cabrera - turned down invitation
Alfredo Alceves - turned down invitation

LIKE I SAID NOT A LOT OF SUPER STAR PLAYERS

Unfortunately it wont let me post the official roster here but you can look it up on the website.

Most second string players

[kellsox]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

[quote=godwulf;127130]What is "Little League-ish" about the rules, in your opinion?

Taken from this link:

http://web.worldbaseballclassic.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090129&content_id=3784012

The first change will affect pitch-count limits, upping them to 70 per game in Round 1, 85 per game in Round 2 and 100 per game in the semifinals and final. These totals have increased from the inaugural tournament in 2006, when pitchers were only permitted to throw 65 pitches in Round 1, 80 in Round 2 and 95 in the semifinals and final.

Also, with semifinal games being played on consecutive days, a pitcher rest equalization rule will be implemented to avoid giving an advantage to the team that played first. Any pitcher who throws 30 or more pitches in the semifinals will not be eligible to pitch in the final.

This rule dictates that, starting with the 13th inning, each half-inning will begin with runners on first and second base, with the batting order intact. The applicability of the rule to the championship game of the tournament is under review by the rules and regulations committee.

While I understand about why they have the pitch counts/days between appearances, it takes away from the flow of the game and doesn't allow for baseball to be played as it usually is. In the WBC, one early long inning in which a pitcher labors can dictate how long he can stay in the game innings later. I don't even know what to say about putting players on base in extra innings....
Players seem to be dropping out of this "Classic" rapidly as they see that they aren't ready and it may not be worth risking injury for their employers.
k

[ballofbases@hotmail.com]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

Maybe it's the "runners start on base in extra inning" rule. You can check it out here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/01/29/wbc.rule.changes.ap/

Michael
Ballofbases@Hotmail.com

[cjw]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

Hey, it's meaningfull baseball breaking an otherwise norm spring training routine. Many of the players really get "up" for the games. Perhaps more so than the average Grapefruit league game?


I am looking forward to it. Maybe Canada will beat the US again? (and maybe even advance )

[gnishiyama]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

I was not aware of the the "starting with runners on base rule" although I'm a baseball purist and would normally strongly oppose this rule, I feel its a way good way to protect the pitchers, especially those who play professionally in their respective countries. I think I speak for the majority when I say although we enjoy WBC games, nobody wants to see a game drag into extra innings unless its the championship game.
They should also implement this rule for the All-Star game. I was at the last All-Star game and I admit it was painful to watch Webb and the oft-injured Kazmir pitch (who both started a few days earlier and were not scheduled to throw) and risk injury in a somewhat meaningless game. I know the home field advantage thing but still...
Being Japanese, I look forward to my team defending their WBC title.
Goh Nishiyama

[skyking26]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

Adam Dunn will join the USA team, taking the place of another player as of this weekend.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

I just don't get it.......As big of a baseball fan as I am, I just can't seem to stir any emotion or excitement at all about the WBC. Doesn't count in the "record books"......doesn't matter in regards to how a player plays......individual player's stats don't go down in their "career stats"..... it just all seems to be about as exciting as.....well......spring training?

I guess because when it's all said and done.......what is the result? Bragging rights about a short tournament with playground-picked line ups?

There is very little rhyme or reason to how the rosters are assembled, and players are jumping "Country" lines so....I just don't see the importance. I would asically place it in the categorie of an ad-lib softball game held at the local park in my neighborhood between some visiting foreigners. If you are really bored, pull up a bench and have a laugh or two at the antics that may occur.......


But, that's just me. And I do concede the fact that I live in a major city that does have a Professional team......so that may have a lot to do with it.

No offense to anyone who's into it, or to any foreign country who has a team seriously geared up to play in it.......but it just doen't rank at all on my "attention" meter.

[godwulf]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

I just don't get it.......As big of a baseball fan as I am, I just can't seem to stir any emotion or excitement at all about the WBC. Doesn't count in the "record books"......doesn't matter in regards to how a player plays......individual player's stats don't go down in their "career stats"..... it just all seems to be about as exciting as.....well......spring training?

As Baseball fans, yes,we look to the records and stats, to a greater extent than in any other sport, and they do add a certain element to our enjoyment...but, ultimately, what do they really have to do with whether or not we love and appreciate The Game?

Recently, I watched several games in the annual tournament known as the Caribbean World Series. The teams included quite a few well-known MLB players, and even those players who were not major leaguers displayed an extraordinary level of skill. It was some great Baseball - whether or not it "counted", in the sense in which you've used that word.

Every year, I get to as many Arizona Fall League games as possible, and I watch the best (mostly) Double-A players in the country show their stuff on the field, plate and mound. Sure, you see some rookie mistakes, at times, in the course of a game...but I see those on Major League ballfields, too. These guys are professionals, playing their hearts out for little more than pride and maybe a box score entry on page 18 of the sports section, and it can be some of the most fun and exciting Baseball you'll ever see, anywhere.

In a sense, I guess, when you set aside the records and the stats, the huge salaries and the agents and the hype, and play (or watch) something like the WBC, it's actually something that's closer to the competitive roots of The Game than anything you'd watch during the regular season. Not every MLB star is going to be able and willing to play for their country in the WBC, but I've read enough interviews with those who have done so to understand how deeply they feel the honor of playing ball with that "U.S.A." and that flag on their jerseys. Personally, I went to the WBC games played in Phoenix in '06, and the US-Mexico game, especially, was one of the best times I've ever had at a ballpark.

[xpress34]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

Godwulf first of all thats not the Rosters. That is the Provisional Rosters.

Just so you know Between Yesterday and Today 4 Starting Players pulled out.
Grady Sizemore
Brian Fuentes
Joe Nathan
BJ Ryan
Melky Cabrera - turned down invitation
Alfredo Alceves - turned down invitation

LIKE I SAID NOT A LOT OF SUPER STAR PLAYERS

Unfortunately it wont let me post the official roster here but you can look it up on the website.

Most second string players

Wow - I didn't realize those guys rank as STAR Players while scrubs like Jeter, Dunn, Wright, Oswalt, Peavy, Jones, Rollins, Pedroia, Braun, Victorino and Youkilis continue to play - and that's JUST on the Team USA Final RosterR.

Yeah, that's only an All Star team there - not including the '2nd tier' Scrubs like Bell, Lilly, Shields, Iannetta, McCann, and Granderson.

Should I go on to the Dominican/Latino countries? A-Rod, Ortiz... yeah, just a bunch more scrubs and 2nd string players... not a lot of Super Star Players....

The point of the WBC is to showcase the Talent of the MLB along with shining a spotlight on countries who previosuly weren't even and afterthought as far as baseball is concerned - on ANY level, not just MLB.

I remember watching S Africa last WBC and thinking ' Wow! Who knew they could play baseball like that down there?'

I have to side with GodWulf here... if all you care about are games with meaningful stats, then we have two totally different views on the beauty of the game.

By the way GODWULF - please send me an IM or an eMail - xpress34@comcast.net

As always, just my .02

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: WBC- Does it matter/Do people care?

I watched 5 minutes of the Blue Jays vs. Canada and I was bored to tears.